Anybody else find HK1997 Gold a lot softer than its advertised?

[Michael Zhuang]

I just cut a new sheet of Palio HK1997 Gold, which is labeled as 49d hardness. 49d hardness should be quite hard, I guess something like 38-39d on DHS scale.

But I found that the rubber is very soft, more along the lines of 42d hardness. Has anybody else found that this rubber is ALOT softer than its label??

 

[Michael Zhuang]

I tested this rubber out for a little. I was curious about this rubber because of the very high speed rating on Revpsin (8.9) and because of the very impressive performance of Palio's AK47.

This is one of those rubbers where the rating is completely detached from reality. It is nowhere near 8.9, and is probably more like 7.5 in my opinion. It is in fact a very dead, slow rubber like a H3.

Also, its very unusual that the sponge is a very porous sponge, not a dense hard sponge like most Chinese rubbers.

 

[Funk Fu Master]

I have the HK1997 Gold, and I do feel that it's on the harder end of the spectrum.. I have it on a pretty flexible blade, and yet the feeling is hard'ish ..Certainly feels harder than my AK-47 Red (which is supposed to be 45°), and my Xiom Omega Pro VII (supposed to be 47°)

 

[Michael Zhuang]

Yeah, my HK1997 just by pressing it down feels a lot softer than AK47, mainly because the HK1997 is more porous.

Is your HK1997 more porous?

 

[mocker88]

I tested this rubber out for a little. I was curious about this rubber because of the very high speed rating on Revpsin (8.9) and because of the very impressive performance of Palio's AK47.

This is one of those rubbers where the rating is completely detached from reality. It is nowhere near 8.9, and is probably more like 7.5 in my opinion. It is in fact a very dead, slow rubber like a H3.

Also, its very unusual that the sponge is a very porous sponge, not a dense hard sponge like most Chinese rubbers.

I have this one at 7.2 in speed, compared to Big Dipper 38deg at 7.7 out of 10, so it felt quite slow and soft when I tried it a while ago.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

I agree with slow and soft. I was surprised by this because ak47 is fast, and hk1997 is labeled as hard sponge.

 

[Funk Fu Master]

I wouldn't rate the HK1997 Gold fast, but nor would I rate it as slow .. I do feel it offers several gears.. However, it's certainly not as fast as the AK-47 Red

 

[Michael Zhuang]

Well I tried boosting this rubber and doing more testing, and I still find it really disappointing. With some light boosting, the speed seems to increase a bit. In some ways the rubber is actually quite fast, but it still has issues.

First off, the rubber is listed at 49, but actually it is extremely soft. I think it is more like 38-30 hardness. I don't know how in the world they can list the rubber at 49, but actually this is a very soft rubber. I tried it on the forehand, but it really is very soft. So I think that it didn't really fit my FH well. I'm used to hard Chinese rubbers on FH.

So I tried it on BH. It is quite fast and quite snappy, but that's not the problem. The throw angle is very low, so with my normal backhand stroke, the balls tend to skim the net. Especially when you try to drive through the ball on the backhand, the ball tends to go into the net. This issue is less pronounced when looping. But during a game, its constantly on my mind that the BH side shoots at a lower angle.

Also when blocking, I feel that the rubber is too soft and mushy to block well. I feel like I'm never sure where the ball is going to fly when I block. It might go down into the net, or it might fly long. I think a good blocking rubber should be a little harder and more stable.

Finally, the rubber does not feel stable and firm, it feels soft and elastic. The short push game is really wild. It's very difficult to keep pushes low and short.

 

[Funk Fu Master]

Well I tried boosting this rubber and doing more testing, and I still find it really disappointing. With some light boosting, the speed seems to increase a bit. In some ways the rubber is actually quite fast, but it still has issues.

First off, the rubber is listed at 49, but actually it is extremely soft. I think it is more like 38-30 hardness. I don't know how in the world they can list the rubber at 49, but actually this is a very soft rubber. I tried it on the forehand, but it really is very soft. So I think that it didn't really fit my FH well. I'm used to hard Chinese rubbers on FH.

So I tried it on BH. It is quite fast and quite snappy, but that's not the problem. The throw angle is very low, so with my normal backhand stroke, the balls tend to skim the net. Especially when you try to drive through the ball on the backhand, the ball tends to go into the net. This issue is less pronounced when looping. But during a game, its constantly on my mind that the BH side shoots at a lower angle.

Also when blocking, I feel that the rubber is too soft and mushy to block well. I feel like I'm never sure where the ball is going to fly when I block. It might go down into the net, or it might fly long. I think a good blocking rubber should be a little harder and more stable.

Finally, the rubber does not feel stable and firm, it feels soft and elastic. The short push game is really wild. It's very difficult to keep pushes low and short.

This is really strange .. my impressions of this rubber are quite the contrary ..

I find the sponge to on the harder end of the spectrum.. atleast 47° (ESN scale) ..I think, the topsheet is soft'ish, but the sponge is hard...

The rubber does have a low arc.. I love blocking and even flat hitting with this rubber.. pushing is not too shabby either.. it does not feel mushy at all, even though, I have it on blade that has a fair amount of flex.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

I find it strange too. I'm absolutely sure that my sponge on the HK1997 is NOT hard. It's soft and very easy to push with your finger. In a rally, it also feels very soft. The speed and softness kind of remind me of Rakza 7 soft, but without the high arc.

At least we agree that the arc is low. It makes me feel blocking is very unnatural and unpredictable. Also again in my case, I feel the sponge is too soft to really block with confidence.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

I actually paired hk1997 on BH with nittaku h3 orange on Fh. Hk1997 weighs 40g, very light. Nittaku h3 weighs 56g, quite heavy. I paired them together so that the weights balance out, and 96g total is fairly normal.

I dont think i have a way to solve the low throw angle on hk1997. Maybe best thing to do is to use it on FH, where you tend to be looping anyways. The soft sponge feels weird on fh though, but i guess that is smaller problem than low throw angle.

Also HK is speedier than h3, so i thought it makes sense on BH. But i guess speed doesnt matter if your shots go into net constantly.

 

[Funk Fu Master]

I actually paired hk1997 on BH with nittaku h3 orange on Fh. Hk1997 weighs 40g, very light. Nittaku h3 weighs 56g, quite heavy. I paired them together so that the weights balance out, and 96g total is fairly normal.

I dont think i have a way to solve the low throw angle on hk1997. Maybe best thing to do is to use it on FH, where you tend to be looping anyways. The soft sponge feels weird on fh though, but i guess that is smaller problem than low throw angle.

Also HK is speedier than h3, so i thought it makes sense on BH. But i guess speed doesnt matter if your shots go into net constantly.

What blade, are you playing with ?

 

[Michael Zhuang]

I put those 2 rubbers on the yinhe V14 Pro outer alc blade.

But since the throw angle of HK1997 was so low, I thought that next time I should try the same 2 rubbers on Fang Bo ALC.

 

[Zeen]

The rubber will be better on softer blades with limba outer and higher throw.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

Well HK1997 throw angle was way too low on BH, so I tried playing it on FH. On FH, the throw angle problem isn't nearly as big of an issue, but then it also introduces a lot more problems.

1) the sponge is just way too soft to be a proper FH rubber. on any type of powerful shot, the sponge just tops out very easily. I feel that on low power shots the speed and spin is quite good. But it hits a ceiling very quick. On slightly harder shots, the power and spin just does not scale up. From slightly behind the table, the rubber just cannot launch the ball across the table with enough power and spin.

2) I think FH side more than BH side is used for short pushing close to the net. but on the FH side, this rubber is just quite elastic and bouncy. It's very easy for short balls to bounce up high.


It's very confusing to me how Palio can list the rubber as 49d hardness. It's literally more like 38-40degree and just tops out very easily. Apparently its a pretty popular rubber, and I cannot possibly be the only person who noticed this dramatic defect. Unless maybe I just got a bad batch?

 

[Funk Fu Master]

2) I think FH side more than BH side is used for short pushing close to the net. but on the FH side, this rubber is just quite elastic and bouncy. It's very easy for short balls to bounce up high.


It's very confusing to me how Palio can list the rubber as 49d hardness. It's literally more like 38-40degree and just tops out very easily. Apparently its a pretty popular rubber, and I cannot possibly be the only person who noticed this dramatic defect. Unless maybe I just got a bad batch?

Once again - I find it really odd that you feel the HK1997 Gold is a soft rubber...I have used 2 sheets, and I would not categorize it as soft/mushy, on any count... perhaps you did get a bad batch, or the rubber was not glued correctly to the blade

My knowledge on technical terminology is quite limited, so, I'm confused about the following -

On one hand you say that the throw-angle of the HK1997 Gold is way too low ...

But, later on, you say that rubber is quite elastic and bouncy ..

As per my very limited technical knowledge, I find the above 2 statements contradictory..

 

[Michael Zhuang]

It's elastic and bouncy in terms of how the ball bounces off the rubber.

But it bounces off at a low angle (in a trajectory towards the net).

If I push down on the sponge from a side view, I can basically push all the way to the wood with not much resistance. On true 49d rubbers (such as hurricane), your finger would stop around half way because of the stiff resistance.

 

[Funk Fu Master]

It's elastic and bouncy in terms of how the ball bounces off the rubber.

But it bounces off at a low angle (in a trajectory towards the net).

Sorry .. me ol' pea-brain still can't grasp it..

If I push down on the sponge from a side view, I can basically push all the way to the wood with not much resistance. On true 49d rubbers (such as hurricane), your finger would stop around half way because of the stiff resistance.

That's exactly what I did, and found resistance... 😆

 

[Michael Zhuang]

Sorry .. me ol' pea-brain still can't grasp it..

That's exactly what I did, and found resistance... 😆

If you push with all your strength, can you push all the way to the wood? or does the sponge resist you around the half way (1mm) mark?

 

[Funk Fu Master]

If you push with all your strength, can you push all the way to the wood? or does the sponge resist you around the half way (1mm) mark?

Nope can't push all the way to the wood... After a bit, I get some resistance ..

Look.. I'm not saying that this rubber is rock hard.. Even to me, it does not seem like 50° hard.. But, I would not peg it as soft/mushy either..