Suggestion needed for Jr player

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Hello,

Just joined today after watching what it seems is 100's of hours of Dan on YouTube. Looking for some advice for my 10yr old son.

Got him Andro Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL with H3 NEO on both sides last year when he started playing, but I am now thinking I need get him a faster blade / rubbers.

For some reason he has an already developed forehand loop / drive where he is using his whole body to launch really speedy balls (Chinese style forehand). He did really well in tourneys I took him to. I think many years of playing tennis helped.

His backhand loops need work, but he can attack early fairly consistently from backhand side, and has a proper smash technique - something that H3 Neo isn't really good for.

From what I can see he likes to attack from both wings whenever there is a chance. Last week he tried a butterfly ZLC blade with Dignics 09c on both sites and it seemed that the balls were flying 50% faster. However, he only played for 10 min, so there wasn't enough time to make any conclusions.

Since I am very new to table tennis I would appreciate any advice. After much research I am leaning towards:

- Timo Ball ALC blade, due to smaller 24mm handle
- Dignics 09c for forehand - I am thinking it is going to be similar to H3 Neo, but much faster
- Tibhar MX-P for backhand (trying to save some money)

If that is an overkill, it seems that Timo Boll TJ might be a good blade? If anyone has some follow up questions, please let me know.

Thanks in advance!
 
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Hello,

Just joined today after watching what it seems is 100's of hours of Dan on YouTube. Looking for some advice for my 10yr old son.

Got him Andro Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL with H3 NEO on both sides last year when he started playing, but I am now thinking I need get him a faster blade / rubbers.

For some reason he has an already developed forehand loop / drive where he is using his whole body to launch really speedy balls (Chinese style forehand). He did really well in tourneys I took him to. I think many years of playing tennis helped.

His backhand loops need work, but he can attack early fairly consistently from backhand side, and has a proper smash technique - something that H3 Neo isn't really good for.

From what I can see he likes to attack from both wings whenever there is a chance. Last week he tried a butterfly ZLC blade with Dignics 09c on both sites and it seemed that the balls were flying 50% faster. However, he only played for 10 min, so there wasn't enough time to make any conclusions.

Since I am very new to table tennis I would appreciate any advice. After much research I am leaning towards:

- Timo Ball ALC blade, due to smaller 24mm handle
- Dignics 09c for forehand - I am thinking it is going to be similar to H3 Neo, but much faster
- Tibhar MX-P for backhand (trying to save some money)

If that is an overkill, it seems that Timo Boll TJ might be a good blade? If anyone has some follow up questions, please let me know.

Thanks in advance!
A really great idea: Show us a video of you son playing a match :)
 
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If your son is only 10 and had been playing just over a year I really, really recommend that you invest the money you want to invest in equipment towards even just 2 or 3 coaching sessions with a good private coach instead.

Then there should still be enough money left over to just put some slightly easier to use/ faster rubbers onto your son's current blade as per the coach's recommendation. This could even be MX-P (which is fast) or maybe just some used rubbers from a senior player to ease the transition away from the slow Hurricane 3.

But as was said above, even just 30 seconds of footage would make it much easier to see where he is at.
 
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If your son is only 10 and had been playing just over a year I really, really recommend that you invest the money you want to invest in equipment towards even just 2 or 3 coaching sessions with a good private coach instead.

Then there should still be enough money left over to just put some slightly easier to use/ faster rubbers onto your son's current blade as per the coach's recommendation. This could even be MX-P (which is fast) or maybe just some used rubbers from a senior player to ease the transition away from the slow Hurricane 3.

But as was said above, even just 30 seconds of footage would make it much easier to see where he is at.
most money into coaching and balance into equipment is idea as per what sofachamp said.
 
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My recommendation is for your son to go around the club and ask to try different blades and rubbers combination before he decides what he likes. I think most club members are more than happy to assist a 10 year old player with a bright future.

If he has a good stroke, then pretty much all blade and rubber combinations are fair game. However if he plans to be an offensive player, most people would recommend 2.0mm or max sponge no matter what rubbers he decides on because he needs to figure out how to engage the sponge to create spin and speed. Thinner sponges will not allow that development.

If he has played for a year, I would still recommend wood. I do like my blade, Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. It is a solid OFF - to OFF blade. It has a lot of feel.

If you want to graduate your son to carbon, then Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon could be a good starting carbon blade.

Either of the above blades, when you add max sponge Tenergy 05 or Dignic 05, you get plenty of speed.

As for forehand, if he wants Chinese type of forehand, nothing wrong with sticking with H3 Neo, but boosted. If he wants to try hybrid, both Tibhar K1 v.s. K3 are fairly good. If he has used H3 Neo, switching to K1 or K3 will be fairly easy.

As for backhand, I personally would recommend Nittaku Fastarc C-1 or Tibhar Evolution EL-S, softer but a bit slower to develop more touch in the backband side. Then eventually move up to harder rubbers like Nittaku Fastarc G-1 or Tibhar Evolution MX-P.

As for eventually going to Dignic 09c on the forehand side and Tenergy 05 on the backhand side, sure. But I don't see the need to break the bank right now.

But seriously, these rubbers are all very fast. I am not sure he wants to or needs to go Dignic 09c on the forehand and MX-P on the backhand just yet.

Now some coaches are saying that kids in China are playing with friendship 729, hard rubber to develop proper strokes and they play just fine. Sure, I can see that argument. But if the kids will eventually use tensor rubbers, there is nothing wrong to start off (if money is not a big concern) because the earlier you develop the touch with tensor rubbers, the better off you will be. So that's another set of argument. But I would really start with softer, lower tensors rubbers first like C-1 and EL-S before moving up.
 
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I really don't think that you should go from his current setup to any of these you ask about. As he just started playing I would suggest that you aim for him to develop his technique for the coming years instead of trying to make a shortcut by buying him faster rubbers and blades like these Butterfly products. You'll just destroy his achievements so far by giving him a totally different setup.

What I think is that you surely could stay with this allround blade and the Hurricane 3 Neo rubber if he have started to develop this Chinese technique. The more he practice this full body technique, the better conditions he'll get to become a really good player. The same goes for backhand, but I understand that the Hurricane 3 Neo is hard to use on backhand. Check out a softer rubber with a similar function, like Yinhe Big Dipper 38deg or perhaps a non tacky one like Palio AK47 Blue or 729 Focus III Snipe.

The best thing when you're developing is to not change too much at one time. Sure the Butterfly blades and rubbers will work good and he doesn't have to move and swing like he started to learn, but he'll lose the control of the ball and his strokes and he has to restart learning a new technique.

Just go slow with this. Table tennis is almost only about practicing your technique and there are no shortcuts :)
 
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I am really amazed how nice table tennis community is both in person and online. I'll try to answer all the suggestions.

- Do not have a video, but might film one
- He has a weekly coaching session with a Chinese coach, lots of multi balls etc.
- Coach has suggested faster rubbers

To answer JJ Ng
- Will go to a local club and have him try out different setups. He did tell me that he thinks he lost some control when trying Dignics 09c with Butterfly ZLC.
- Yes his forehand is "fully developed" but he struggles to hit, lets say 10+ 100% speed shots in a row full power with enough top spin. I think that H3 Neo is very demanding, he is in the air for every shot. That is why I was thinking to make it easier for him.
- Didn't know about sponge thickness, will make sure to remember that
- Will keep in mind blade / rubber suggestions
- Interesting arguments about hard / tensor rubbers for early development.

To answer mocker 88
- Yes, that is why I am looking for feedback, as I was afraid from going from very slow, to very fast setup
- I agree that backhand is the problem and I will definitely switch backhand rubbers

So, I think I will keep his current blade, but will have to change the rubbers as he used them for 10 months and they are showing degradation. I will not empty the wallet for Butterfly stuff (thanks to you guys).

Thoughts on the following:

- Forehand, keep H3 Neo, but upgrade to provincial version, 37 ($47 usd) / 38 ($47 usd) / 39($35 usd) / 40 ($35 usd)
.. is this a good idea, and what hardness should I go with?

- Backhand, Yinhe Big Dipper 38 ($13.99 usd) ..as tibhar & nittaku are $44 usd

So for some $60 usd, he should have a better H3 Neo rubber on forehand and a nice backhand rubber? I am missing something?

Also, quoted prices are from AliExpress, from what it seems reputable sellers. Is that fine?

Thank you all for the help, it really means a lot as I am just starting to learn about tt.
 
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I am really amazed how nice table tennis community is both in person and online. I'll try to answer all the suggestions.

- Do not have a video, but might film one
- He has a weekly coaching session with a Chinese coach, lots of multi balls etc.
- Coach has suggested faster rubbers

To answer JJ Ng
- Will go to a local club and have him try out different setups. He did tell me that he thinks he lost some control when trying Dignics 09c with Butterfly ZLC.
- Yes his forehand is "fully developed" but he struggles to hit, lets say 10+ 100% speed shots in a row full power with enough top spin. I think that H3 Neo is very demanding, he is in the air for every shot. That is why I was thinking to make it easier for him.
- Didn't know about sponge thickness, will make sure to remember that
- Will keep in mind blade / rubber suggestions
- Interesting arguments about hard / tensor rubbers for early development.

To answer mocker 88
- Yes, that is why I am looking for feedback, as I was afraid from going from very slow, to very fast setup
- I agree that backhand is the problem and I will definitely switch backhand rubbers

So, I think I will keep his current blade, but will have to change the rubbers as he used them for 10 months and they are showing degradation. I will not empty the wallet for Butterfly stuff (thanks to you guys).

Thoughts on the following:

- Forehand, keep H3 Neo, but upgrade to provincial version, 37 ($47 usd) / 38 ($47 usd) / 39($35 usd) / 40 ($35 usd)
.. is this a good idea, and what hardness should I go with?

- Backhand, Yinhe Big Dipper 38 ($13.99 usd) ..as tibhar & nittaku are $44 usd

So for some $60 usd, he should have a better H3 Neo rubber on forehand and a nice backhand rubber? I am missing something?

Also, quoted prices are from AliExpress, from what it seems reputable sellers. Is that fine?

Thank you all for the help, it really means a lot as I am just starting to learn about tt.
Big Dipper is a very cheap and good substitute for D09c. Fairly similar playing characteristics for much cheaper. But it is not a easy rubber to use, it is fairly hard and unforgiving on lazy shots.

If you are just getting a first rubber, I don't think provincial is necessary. Commercial H3 40 would be fine, or even get Rxton 5 for $11. It's very similar. If you want something faster and bouncier, get Jupiter 3 or Bloom Power.
 
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- He has a weekly coaching session with a Chinese coach, lots of multi balls etc.
- Coach has suggested faster rubbers

How many hours does your son train with the coach?
Did the coach suggest what rubbers to change to?

I would suggest the equipment selection is best between you, your son and the coach. This way, the coach is in full control of your son's development.

That is assuming the coach is a proper coach and knows few things about equipment or too and you trust his judgement.

I am both a shop owner and coach. I find it a lot of times, too much information could actually cause confusion, and frankly speaking, what do I know about your son to make the right decision.

All I can say is, H3 on FH and BH does require high level skills.
H3 on BH is generally too hard, hence most juniors will go with 37 degree sponge version of the H3.

Taiwan's top 10 year old is using H3 on both sides. His surname is Lin and he could be famous too in a few years time.
 
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I think I am set to try Big Dipper 38 on backhand, since it is so cheap and has great reviews. As a product description they say "Galaxy YINHE Big Dipper Factory Tuned Max Tense". Is this "factory tuned" something that I should pay attention to?

Also, $35-$47 usd for a provincial h3 neo 2.2mm seems like a good deal. Would hardness do you think I should go with,37/38/39/40?

Thanks!
 
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I think I am set to try Big Dipper 38 on backhand, since it is so cheap and has great reviews. As a product description they say "Galaxy YINHE Big Dipper Factory Tuned Max Tense". Is this "factory tuned" something that I should pay attention to?

Also, $35-$47 usd for a provincial h3 neo 2.2mm seems like a good deal. Would hardness do you think I should go with,37/38/39/40?

Thanks!
To me, fh should be harder than bh. So if youre using 38 on bh, i would aim for 40 on fh.

The factory tuning means the rubber will be bouncier and faster than your standard untuned Chinese rubber. This is indeed the case, because the rubber is quite bouncy.
 
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The worst thing you can do is give him a fast blade. Competing in tabel tennis i so much more than just a perfect loop. I watched a ten year old kid with a Cybershape and Tenergy O5 a few weeks a go at a competition. Amazing FH loops but he could not return serves and his short game was terrible. He was actually quite good but his equipment made him lose.
 
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I am really amazed how nice table tennis community is both in person and online. I'll try to answer all the suggestions.

- Do not have a video, but might film one
- He has a weekly coaching session with a Chinese coach, lots of multi balls etc.
- Coach has suggested faster rubbers

To answer JJ Ng
- Will go to a local club and have him try out different setups. He did tell me that he thinks he lost some control when trying Dignics 09c with Butterfly ZLC.
- Yes his forehand is "fully developed" but he struggles to hit, lets say 10+ 100% speed shots in a row full power with enough top spin. I think that H3 Neo is very demanding, he is in the air for every shot. That is why I was thinking to make it easier for him.
- Didn't know about sponge thickness, will make sure to remember that
- Will keep in mind blade / rubber suggestions
- Interesting arguments about hard / tensor rubbers for early development.

To answer mocker 88
- Yes, that is why I am looking for feedback, as I was afraid from going from very slow, to very fast setup
- I agree that backhand is the problem and I will definitely switch backhand rubbers

So, I think I will keep his current blade, but will have to change the rubbers as he used them for 10 months and they are showing degradation. I will not empty the wallet for Butterfly stuff (thanks to you guys).

Thoughts on the following:

- Forehand, keep H3 Neo, but upgrade to provincial version, 37 ($47 usd) / 38 ($47 usd) / 39($35 usd) / 40 ($35 usd)
.. is this a good idea, and what hardness should I go with?

- Backhand, Yinhe Big Dipper 38 ($13.99 usd) ..as tibhar & nittaku are $44 usd

So for some $60 usd, he should have a better H3 Neo rubber on forehand and a nice backhand rubber? I am missing something?

Also, quoted prices are from AliExpress, from what it seems reputable sellers. Is that fine?

Thank you all for the help, it really means a lot as I am just starting to learn about tt.
It's not that big difference between H3 Commercial and Provincial, so it's almost like wasting your money a bit. What hardness does your son have on forehand now? Personally I have tried Big Dipper 38-40deg, and I find the 40 deg a bit hard to generate spin with and it has a much harder feeling than the 38 & 39deg. I think that Big Dipper 39deg would be a much better forehand rubber than H3N 37deg, if he needs more speed.

You could absolutely check out Giant Dragon - TopEnergy Soft and LOKI GTX Pro for a more bouncy forehand rubber as well, but Big Dipper 39deg would be my first choice.. GTX Pro is in that area and TopEnergy Soft is a little bit softer.
 
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Just curious about something, why is there Euro forehand and Chinese forehand? Is that due to rubbers or coaching or something else? Also most Euro players are backhand dominant it seems, while in China forehand is what they focus on the most?
Ok this is going to be a long post.

I really do think most table tennis players are nice. There are always some snobby ones who don't want to play with people lower ranked than they are. But overall, if you want to hit, everyone is quite nice about it. And for the most part, players like having juniors around because they are the future of the sport. You and your son asking to experiment with people's blade and rubber combination should be easy.

As for my advice, yes I agree with other posters in that

1) there are not that much difference between H3 Neo commericial (with orange sponge) v.s. provincial v.s. national. Just go with commercial. I have even heard that some people say the national is a bit slower so you have more control but then why do you want a slower version of H3 Neo?

2) yes be careful about a blade that is too fast. I have been playing table tennis on and off since I was 14. I am in my mid 40's now. The coach at my club sets up even beginners with Timo Boll ALC plus two sheets of Tenergy. I am like, that is too fast! I don't agree with that. But I keep my mouth shut. The coach is a nice guy and it is his business. Earlier today I took out a spare paddle with Nittaku Acoustic carbon with Tenergy 05 fx on both sides. Yeah it was fun to smash a couple balls but I went back to my regular paddle after 10 minutes. I basically fooled around with that Nittaku Acoustic carbon with Tenergy with others in doubles just for fun. Then I started playing one-on-one and moved right back to my regular set-up.

So wood blade plus maybe H3 neo boosted on the forehand, plus a slower, tensor rubber on the backhand would be good for your son for his next stage of development. By the slower, tensor rubber is not slow; it is still a lot faster than, say, Mark V and Sriver. And tensors really are all bouncier than H3 neo which I use on my forehand side. I have used Razka 7 regular, Razka 7 soft, Razka X, C-1, G-1, Baracuda, Tenergy 05 fx, Tenergy 64 fx, Tenergy 80 fx, etc. All are faster than H3 neo.

Since you live in Canada, it is time for you to get acquainted with tabletennis11. They are by far the best. When I was growing up in Canada, I used to buy from Table Tennis Pioneer in Quebec but they have since went out of business. I came to the US for college and graduate school and bought from Paddle Palace. Nowadays, Paddle Palace's price is not competitive at all. I almost exclusively order from TableTennis 11 (great service by the way) and supplementing it a bit here and there from Megaspin (which is owned by Joola North America by the way). So please familiarize yourself with TT11.

By the way, C-1 only comes in max of 2.0 mm sponge at TT11 which is fine (TT11 used to carry max of 2.0 mm sponge for G-1 but has recently started carrying max of 2.2 mm sponge for G-1). EL-S maybe 1.9 mm (don't go for 2.1 mm yet). Finally a couple people also like Xiom Vega Europe (again another softer, tensor ESN rubber).

3) Euro forehand v.s. Chinese forehand. Best example of Euro forehand is Timo Boll. Best eample of Chinese forehand is Ma Long. Just watch them practicing on YouTube video's. I don't need to say anything more. Both forehands are good. It depends on your son and what he wants out of table tennis and his coaches along the way. I have a Chinese forehand stroke and I find tensor rubber on my forehand side to be really annoying. But once you have Chinese forehand stroke, you have to a) move much faster to be in a better position to execute the stroke, b) be physically fit, and c) recover faster from your stroke to start counter looping.
 
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Already using tabletennis11, that is where I got the ando / H3neo racket. Also used Megaspin for another recket for myself.

I figured to try some of the rubbers you all suggested so I ordered:
H3 Neo commercial H39
Yinhe Big Dipper H38
Yinhe Jupiter 3 H38
729 Bloom Power 45

I am thinking we can try different rubbers and see what works the best, since these are all so cheap. I could have gotten 2 more and would still be under price for single Dignics 09c haha.

If these work well, I can upgrade to faster tensor down the road.
 
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Already using tabletennis11, that is where I got the ando / H3neo racket. Also used Megaspin for another recket for myself.

I figured to try some of the rubbers you all suggested so I ordered:
H3 Neo commercial H39
Yinhe Big Dipper H38
Yinhe Jupiter 3 H38
729 Bloom Power 45

I am thinking we can try different rubbers and see what works the best, since these are all so cheap. I could have gotten 2 more and would still be under price for single Dignics 09c haha.

If these work well, I can upgrade to faster tensor down the road.
You got my 3 favorite rubbers.
 
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Already using tabletennis11, that is where I got the ando / H3neo racket. Also used Megaspin for another recket for myself.

I figured to try some of the rubbers you all suggested so I ordered:
H3 Neo commercial H39
Yinhe Big Dipper H38
Yinhe Jupiter 3 H38
729 Bloom Power 45

I am thinking we can try different rubbers and see what works the best, since these are all so cheap. I could have gotten 2 more and would still be under price for single Dignics 09c haha.

If these work well, I can upgrade to faster tensor down the road.
I am glad that you are already familiar with TT11. Spending like $250 and you get 30% discount. With some of the tensor rubber being $50 a piece, getting to $250 is like a piece of cake (bad for us in our wallets).

Yes, you getting all of those will still be underpriced compared to one single sheet of Dignics 09c.

I cannot overemphasize that I tried a couple tensors and a couple hybrid on my forehand side and I have always come back to H3 Neo. There is just something about it. So recently I have been putting H3 neo on two of my carbon blades and I might transition to make it a bit faster. Therefore sometimes it is the blade you need to change but not necessarily the rubber.

If I may ask, which vendor do you use to get Yinhe Big Dipper H38, Yinhe Jupiter 3 H38 and 729 Bloom Power 45? Thanks!
 
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Got 729 Bloom Power today, and I must say it is excellent. About 90 min of hitting and you can really see the improvement of speed on backhand side, without any loss of control. It seems that touch at the table is excellent, and short and medium distance strokes are fast and controlled.

He tried also hitting forehand with it and didn't like it at all because of less spin compared to H3 neo, however it seems to be a really good match for backhand side. You guys know what you are talking about.

Yihne rubbers have been stuck at the border for 7 days, so who knows when I'll get them. Can't wait to compare them to 729 Bloom Power.

Now I really want him to try a bit faster blade, not the Timo Ball ALC that I originally had in mind :( , but something faster than Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL, which is (ALL).

Any inner carbon blades that someone can suggest, or smaller handle fast blades, I do not really care which brand?
 
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