Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

[TensorBackhand]

Is LAC also like D09c?

LAC, GTX, and the new Rxton 7 are similar in function as the D09c

 

[Emin]

its crazy to me how some a small chinese AliExpress Company (probably not so small) can make 15 Euro Rubbers that can perform at the level of 80 Euro Dignics that every pro players uses and praises.

 

[Attitude]

But D09c feels pretty hard to me, it feels like 41d

Hm not in my exp. I tested it with a teammate and we both could make better work with it on bh, because of its initial bounce and somewhat softer topsheet.

And i agree with Zwill. Lac is supposed to be typical chinese hard, at least that is smth several ppl including me, expected from it. But it feels surprisingly more dynamic and not that dead hard. But not so soft that you cant control your shots close to the table. In that category it behaves more chinese-like

 

[TensorBackhand]

its crazy to me how some a small chinese AliExpress Company (probably not so small) can make 15 Euro Rubbers that can perform at the level of 80 Euro Dignics that every pro players uses and praises.

Well Aliexpress is just a marketplace like amazon. Loki is the rubber maker.

But yes indeed, it is very great job that they could make rubbers for 15 Euro that is nearly the same in function and ability as D09c.

GTX, with the right tuning, actually exceeds D09c in my personal experience because it has more control and spin.

 

[Zwill]

its crazy to me how some a small chinese AliExpress Company (probably not so small) can make 15 Euro Rubbers that can perform at the level of 80 Euro Dignics that every pro players uses and praises.

You could look at it the other way. Crazy that some companies get away with selling 80EUR rubbers while others sell similar ones for 15EUR. But don't believe that Dignics costs 80 EUR to make. You can bet your booty that with every Dignics normal folks buy they are sponsoring the pro players who get them for free.

 

[Attitude]

You could look at it the other way. Crazy that some companies get away with selling 80EUR rubbers while others sell similar ones for 15EUR. But don't believe that Dignics costs 80 EUR to make. You can bet your booty that with every Dignics normal folks buy they are sponsoring the pro players who get them for free.

That for once is most certainly true. On the other hand, there are most certainly other reasons as well. First of all there is probably more time and money spent on development and sponsoring. Second there are several differences to these rubbers and cheaper ones. Differences or advantages that would give a pro the edge over one another or level them up.
I dont say that this justifies the prices but mind that a rubber like lac or any of the rxton wont be the same as d09c. They have some of their characteristics but they are definitly not the same!

 

[TensorBackhand]

That for once is most certainly true. On the other hand, there are most certainly other reasons as well. First of all there is probably more time and money spent on development and sponsoring. Second there are several differences to these rubbers and cheaper ones. Differences or advantages that would give a pro the edge over one another or level them up.
I dont say that this justifies the prices but mind that a rubber like lac or any of the rxton wont be the same as d09c. They have some of their characteristics but they are definitly not the same!

Not the same. Just like a Toyota Camry is not the same as a Honda Accord. But they fill the same portfolio role and function.

So if you expect the rubbers to have identical characteristic, then you will be disappointed. But if you just want the rubbers to fill the same functional role, then you may find great success.

 

[Attitude]

Not the same. Just like a Toyota Camry is not the same as a Honda Accord. But they fill the same portfolio role and function.

So if you expect the rubbers to have identical characteristic, then you will be disappointed. But if you just want the rubbers to fill the same functional role, then you may find great success.

Sorry but the comparison is garbage. You cant put this discussion in the same box as 2 normal cars. You could do this analogical with 2 formel 1 cars but not like this. Rubbers are fine tools and little differences at these mean the world to different players.

Some differences we discovered:
D09c is more bouncy and has a little higher arc. The fullswing topspins are faster with d09c and brush loops have more spin.

Does it justify 3 times the price? Definitly not. For pros? Probably yes especially of they are sponsored.

 

[Zwill]

That for once is most certainly true. On the other hand, there are most certainly other reasons as well. First of all there is probably more time and money spent on development and sponsoring. Second there are several differences to these rubbers and cheaper ones. Differences or advantages that would give a pro the edge over one another or level them up.
I dont say that this justifies the prices but mind that a rubber like lac or any of the rxton wont be the same as d09c. They have some of their characteristics but they are definitly not the same!

For sure there are other differences as well. One is made in China the other in Japan, that alone is a pretty big cost difference. Energy, labor, land lease, taxes... etc must be a lot cheaper in China than in Tokyo. Tokyo has to be one of the most expensive places in the world. R&D is also a big one it's easier to copy than to make something new, and for sure Butterfly has to invest in more tooling too since they must be making a lot more sheets a day than Loki while they have to keep a higher quality standard.

I wonder what yield rate Butterfly makes its rubbers. Don't think they ship the not so well made sheets to Vietnam for a discount on Lazada

 

[TensorBackhand]

For sure there are other differences as well. One is made in China the other in Japan, that alone is a pretty big cost difference. Energy, labor, land lease, taxes... etc must be a lot cheaper in China than in Tokyo. Tokyo has to be one of the most expensive places in the world. R&D is also a big one it's easier to copy than to make something new, and for sure Butterfly has to invest in more tooling too since they must be making a lot more sheets a day than Loki while they have to keep a higher quality standard.

I wonder what yield rate Butterfly makes its rubbers. Don't think they ship the not so well made sheets to Vietnam for a discount on Lazada

Chinese EV makers have completely dominated their home market and have out-innovated and out-competed their German and Japanese competitors. China was the #1 exporter of cars this year. Many execs in the auto industry have openly commentated that the Chinese makers are on the verge of dominating the industry.

I'm looking forward when the rubber makers can genuinely out-compete the overpriced Japan-German makers.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Sorry but the comparison is garbage. You cant put this discussion in the same box as 2 normal cars. You could do this analogical with 2 formel 1 cars but not like this. Rubbers are fine tools and little differences at these mean the world to different players.

Some differences we discovered:
D09c is more bouncy and has a little higher arc. The fullswing topspins are faster with d09c and brush loops have more spin.

Does it justify 3 times the price? Definitly not. For pros? Probably yes especially of they are sponsored.

Well each person may have a slightly difference experience. When I use D09c, I feel the dwell time is too low, and therefore the control and spin is not as good as you claim.

If I had to pick a rubber to play a single match to determine if my son lives, I would pick the tuned GTX over the D09c, because I feel it has better control, better spin, and just as much speed. The caveat is that the GTX needs to be tuned with baby oil and booster.

If you haven't tried either, it's hard to say which one would suit you unless you try both. But like I said, I think they are similar enough that they fill the same functional role of a faster, bouncier, tacky rubber.

 

[Zwill]

Some differences we discovered:
D09c is more bouncy and has a little higher arc. The fullswing topspins are faster with d09c and brush loops have more spin.

I found that I like over the table countering with LAC so much. I feel like Ma Long countering other players open ups. LAC is vicious at it. I never had so high accuracy and shot so amazing counters in my life before.

Other day I was training with some other teams' first league players and I was destroying them with counters. I could see their faces go pale from disbelief.

And I found I like my racket a bit heavier with LAC on FH, the heft somehow increases the arc with this rubber. Maybe the W968 likes to be a bit heavier so the head of the blade flexes more as I accelerate the paddle and with a heavier head the head is just left behind more... Or I am not sure what is going on but I changed back my G09c on BH to G-1 and G-1 is heavier by a few grams and it just works better for me on FH.

Everything close to the table feels pretty good, flicking, countering, 3rd ball killing... For me 3rd ball killing is a big one, that is my get out of the jail free card.

What I have been struggling a bit is rallying. I actually don't find it gutless from the back but when I rally somehow I make more mistakes than normally I do. Normally I don't make mistakes in rallying and with this one I made quite a few. I guess a need more understanding what is possible with it.

 

[Attitude]

I found that I like over the table countering with LAC so much. I feel like Ma Long countering other players open ups. LAC is vicious at it. I never had so high accuracy and shot so amazing counters in my life before.

Other day I was training with some other teams' first league players and I was destroying them with counters. I could see their faces go pale from disbelief.

And I found I like my racket a bit heavier with LAC on FH, the heft somehow increases the arc with this rubber. Maybe the W968 likes to be a bit heavier so the head of the blade flexes more as I accelerate the paddle and with a heavier head the head is just left behind more... Or I am not sure what is going on but I changed back my G09c on BH to G-1 and G-1 is heavier by a few grams and it just works better for me on FH.

Everything close to the table feels pretty good, flicking, countering, 3rd ball killing... For me 3rd ball killing is a big one, that is my get out of the jail free card.

What I have been struggling a bit is rallying. I actually don't find it gutless from the back but when I rally somehow I make more mistakes than normally I do. Normally I don't make mistakes in rallying and with this one I made quite a few. I guess a need more understanding what is possible with it.

I felt like i dont have to do the same work with d09c for the same result aside from hard looping. And the arc gets so beautiful. Me and my teammate had serious issues getting used to block those loops from the d09c

Everything else i can relate. If i remember correctly i even described most of it already.

I dont even struggle in rallyes. But i do have several issues finishing in some instances. For example i loop, opponent goes in defensive mode, blocks long and half high (around shoulder height) and i want to finish with a hard hitter like a big topspin. That shit goes too wide too often currently. The moment i start closing the racket angle my accuracy gets weird. I dont have this issue with my bh, but on fh im somehow not getting used to hit these shots. Gonna train those soon though, because that pisses me off quite hard.

Besides that i dont have any issues anymore i got with changing to this rubber. Everything is getting better with every training day and i am already hyped up for the next season.

 

[Zwill]

I felt like i dont have to do the same work with d09c for the same result aside from hard looping. And the arc gets so beautiful. Me and my teammate had serious issues getting used to block those loops from the d09c

Everything else i can relate. If i remember correctly i even described most of it already.

I dont even struggle in rallyes. But i do have several issues finishing in some instances. For example i loop, opponent goes in defensive mode, blocks long and half high (around shoulder height) and i want to finish with a hard hitter like a big topspin. That shit goes too wide too often currently. The moment i start closing the racket angle my accuracy gets weird. I dont have this issue with my bh, but on fh im somehow not getting used to hit these shots. Gonna train those soon though, because that pisses me off quite hard.

Besides that i dont have any issues anymore i got with changing to this rubber. Everything is getting better with every training day and i am already hyped up for the next season.

D09c, Tenergy and many rubbers have a beautiful and consistent arc. That is in a way good.
But when I played with those kind of rubbers my teammate said, who uses Moristo SP on BH, that he can very consistently and safely block. But when I use quirky Chinese rubbers he also struggles since he cannot predict so easily how much spin the ball has, how it will kick on the table etc etc. Chinese rubbers have this quirk.

 

[Zwill]

Are your conclusions about LAC assuming that it has poor durability and will bubble relatively quickly? If it turns out the 41d is relatively durable and withstands boosting, would that change your opinion and put it in contention as your bang-for-buck rubber?

BTW, appreciate the clear and informative way in which you are evaluating the rubbers. Very pleasant to read.

Sorry, I had training camp this week. I was sweating my 40++++ balls off all week 6+2 hours so I missed this post.
It would change my optinion to be honest. I think the topsheet is really top notch, totally DHS H3 grade.
I also think the sponge is lovely. Does the manufacturer have a topsheet-to-sponge gluing problem or the 40 deg sponge is weak and tears under heavy use? I would probably bet that there is a topsheet-to-sponge gluing problem.
Now I wonder how the hell they can identify that issue and ship the problematic rubbers to Vietnam is another question to debate.

But before someone starts to think I am picking on Vietnam or Lazada or whatever... on the contrary. I am picking on the manufacturer.
There were some urban legends that if one bought Butterfly stuff from Germany they got a better quality/grade product than if they bought it from anywhere else, certainly better than in central or eastern Europe.

I really hate if manufacturers handle non "premium" countries as 3rd class citizens even if they offer a discount.

Heck, I think Wang Hao owes a training session to @longle for being so supportive to help him pay off his villa's debt.

 

[longle]

@Zwill he's gonna pay off his debt soon cuz I've just broken the 3rd LAC sheet on the 3rd day (the lifespan is getting shorter again). While I am waiting for the new sheet to arrive from the authorized shop.. I'll break this 4th and final sheet of that lzd store

 

[TensorBackhand]

@Zwill he's gonna pay off his debt soon cuz I've just broken the 3rd LAC sheet on the 3rd day (the lifespan is getting shorter again). While I am waiting for the new sheet to arrive from the authorized shop.. I'll break this 4th and final sheet of that lzd store

Maybe it is fake afterall. Because the official one should be 41d

 

[turbozed]

@Zwill he's gonna pay off his debt soon cuz I've just broken the 3rd LAC sheet on the 3rd day (the lifespan is getting shorter again). While I am waiting for the new sheet to arrive from the authorized shop.. I'll break this 4th and final sheet of that lzd store

When you get the authorized shop's LAC, see if you can spot any differences between it and the Lazada sheets that bubble and break. Hopefully we can spot a discernable difference between the two.

 

[lodro]

@Zwill he's gonna pay off his debt soon cuz I've just broken the 3rd LAC sheet on the 3rd day (the lifespan is getting shorter again). While I am waiting for the new sheet to arrive from the authorized shop.. I'll break this 4th and final sheet of that lzd store

other countries other customs and laws.
Here we have a consumer protection law that stipulates that every item bought must fulfill the promised function for at least 1 year.

Now if you could get your money back you could just about invest in a Dignic 😂

 

[longle]

other countries other customs and laws.
Here we have a consumer protection law that stipulates that every item bought must fulfill the promised function for at least 1 year.

Now if you could get your money back you could just about invest in a Dignic 😂

It's the cost for EJing I am willing to make haha. But no, I don't like Dignics because its P/P does not justify to me