Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Gozo Zyreruna]

That hinoki is a bit crazy then...it seems way bouncier than my Viscaria tbh which is already very bouncy! I have no idea how you played it with Tenergy last time, it must have been like steering a rocketship. Also how do you even do short pushes using that setup lol, i think it would be so difficult to control...

I took some hard lessons from the University of Hard Knocks.

 

[blahness]

I took some hard lessons from the University of Hard Knocks.

On the good side, you can simply rely on the blade speed and use cheap af rubbers, might be a lot more economical in the long run? Lol

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

That hinoki is a bit crazy then...it seems way bouncier than my Viscaria tbh which is already very bouncy! I have no idea how you played it with Tenergy last time, it must have been like steering a rocketship. Also how do you even do short pushes using that setup lol, i think it would be so difficult to control...

There's a good reason why thick single ply Hinoki has been the go-to blade composition for single sided Japanese penhold attackers. You owe it to yourself to try one at least once

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

That hinoki is a bit crazy then...it seems way bouncier than my Viscaria tbh which is already very bouncy! I have no idea how you played it with Tenergy last time, it must have been like steering a rocketship. Also how do you even do short pushes using that setup lol, i think it would be so difficult to control...

How else you think I could hit through some of the high backspin balls? It is because of the uber bounciness of the Hinoki wood's inherent property assisted by uber bouncy rubber like MX-P.

 

[Tyce]

Do you have to swing backwards for short pushes?

 

[blahness]

There's a good reason why thick single ply Hinoki has been the go-to blade composition for single sided Japanese penhold attackers. You owe it to yourself to try one at least once

I played against one very high level Jpen player who also used some hinoki some months ago and it was ridiculous how fast the TPB punch was with such tiny amounts of input power that he put in. It was a tough as nails match which I lost mostly due to not being able to match his speed in BH-BH (before i started on my multiball journey to become a topspin speed demon) and of course the crazy Jpen FH loopkills. Although the Jpen FH and serves are the killer but I remembered the TPB punch very well, damn that was impressive for a penhold BH.

 

[blahness]

I'm actually quite curious how hinoki would play with a slower boosted Hurricane. Wouldn't that be the ultimate penhold loopkill machine, especially when coupled with the short game from the Hurricane?

 

[kindof99]

I'm actually quite curious how hinoki would play with a slower boosted Hurricane. Wouldn't that be the ultimate penhold loopkill machine, especially when coupled with the short game from the Hurricane?

Hinoki + Hurricane = Milk + Vodka

 

[Lazer]

I'm actually quite curious how hinoki would play with a slower boosted Hurricane. Wouldn't that be the ultimate penhold loopkill machine, especially when coupled with the short game from the Hurricane?

I don't know about penhold, but I play H3 and just love Hinoki or spruce as top layer. I can imagine a one-ply should be great too...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[banbekas]

I'm actually quite curious how hinoki would play with a slower boosted Hurricane. Wouldn't that be the ultimate penhold loopkill machine, especially when coupled with the short game from the Hurricane?

Incredible. I used Zetro Quad with boosted Hurricane 3 Provincial OS. Short game was awesome but the power when I really went for it was also good.
Till this day, it remains my best setup. Alas, the blade is too fragile. Hit the edge of the table once and the dent on the blade was big.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

It's an impressive shot, well done - it doesn't really make flextra fast, but it is an impressive shot. Are you using flextra on both forehand and backhand now?

NL,

• Do you think the shot is really slow?
• Why do I ask this question again?
• Well, coincidentally tonight during my practice session, a veteran player commented Flextra on FH is slow ( he did watch my game against the other club mates ).
• He said he recall my FH strokes were more dangerous when I was using Tenergy 05 / Rozena.
• He said as for BH, no doubt, remain with Flextra as it is a very good controlling rubber.
• I personally think not so, but is Flextra on FH really that slow as it is no longer a credible threat anymore?
• What do you guys think?
• Should I go back to Rozena / Baracuda for FH?

 

[NextLevel]

NL,

• Do you think the shot is really slow?
• Why do I ask this question again?
• Well, coincidentally tonight during my practice session, a veteran player commented Flextra on FH is slow ( he did watch my game against the other club mates ).
• He said he recall my FH strokes were more dangerous when I was using Tenergy 05 / Rozena.
• He said as for BH, no doubt, remain with Flextra as it is a very good controlling rubber.
• I personally think not so, but is Flextra on FH really that slow as it is no longer a credible threat anymore?
• What do you guys think?
• Should I go back to Rozena / Baracuda for FH?

Don't listen to what he is saying now, use the rubber for a few months first, at least till the end of July please, better till the end of the year - you need this for your development. The two shot sequences you are playing now are exactly what I have been begging you to play for a long time and now you can play them, you want to change? I mean, you don't want to slow down your blade so what is your serious alternative?

Speed of a rubber is measured in different ways, from how it plays in mid distance to how much kick it gets when you loop to how hard you can hit through the ball. What I am saying is that the rotation might not be extremely heavy and the kick really strong, but the travelling speed is good. So what the veteran is seeing is technically true, but it has little or no meaning at the level you play at, where points are won and lost much more based on control and consistency than they are by overwhelming speed and power.

So yes, you won't kill people with practice loops. But the point is not to kill people with practice loops, the point is to be able to spin the ball on the table under pressure. Once you can do that, you can use whatever you want that makes you keep doing that.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Don't listen to what he is saying now, use the rubber for a few months first, at least till the end of July please, better till the end of the year - you need this for your development. The two shot sequences you are playing now are exactly what I have been begging you to play for a long time and now you can play them, you want to change? I mean, you don't want to slow down your blade so what is your serious alternative?

Speed of a rubber is measured in different ways, from how it plays in mid distance to how much kick it gets when you loop to how hard you can hit through the ball. What I am saying is that the rotation might not be extremely heavy and the kick really strong, but the travelling speed is good. So what the veteran is seeing is technically true, but it has little or no meaning at the level you play at, where points are won and lost much more based on control and consistency than they are by overwhelming speed and power.

So yes, you won't kill people with practice loops. But the point is not to kill people with practice loops, the point is to be able to spin the ball on the table under pressure. Once you can do that, you can use whatever you want that makes you keep doing that.

OK, got it. Stick with it till end of the year.

Oh by the way, if I you can indulge me, what sort of USTTA level will play similar to the reels that I had shown? Just curious. This is especially when you American players chit-chat you use a lot of the ranking points in your conversation and I usually get lost in the conversation.

 

[NextLevel]

OK, got it. Stick with it till end of the year.

Oh by the way, if I you can indulge me, what sort of USTTA level will play similar to the reels that I had shown? Just curious. This is especially when you American players chit-chat you use a lot of the ranking points in your conversation and I usually get lost in the conversation.

With the caveat that ratings are earned in matches, not in videos, and that ball quality and game speed isn't always easy to see, the feel I get watching your games is somewhere between 1000 and 1600, but more likely somewhere between 1200-1400. Usually, if you can push long to someone and be confident that they will push back most of the time, they are under 1600 unless they play an advanced blocking and countering style, in which case their pushes will be a bit more consistent, varied and venomous with the intent of drawing errors or getting weak openings to counter. Below 1600, unless they are kids, the play is not physical either. Above 1600, things get much more interesting and it is harder to win if you give the player what they want all the time.

 

[Lazer]

NL,

• Do you think the shot is really slow?
• Why do I ask this question again?
• Well, coincidentally tonight during my practice session, a veteran player commented Flextra on FH is slow ( he did watch my game against the other club mates ).
• He said he recall my FH strokes were more dangerous when I was using Tenergy 05 / Rozena.
• He said as for BH, no doubt, remain with Flextra as it is a very good controlling rubber.
• I personally think not so, but is Flextra on FH really that slow as it is no longer a credible threat anymore?
• What do you guys think?
• Should I go back to Rozena / Baracuda for FH?

Gozo, if you don’t hit the table on the other end it doesn’t matter how fast your shots are….

Cheers
L-zr

 

[dingyibvs]

Had a long training session yesterday with my practice partner. I'm getting more and more used to the new FH loop motion. It's pretty much at similar consistency level now as the old one in practice, but not yet in games when we practiced a few 3rd ball attacks at the end. This new stroke has naturally great topspin and far less sidespin, @Der_Echte's fingers will appreciate. I need to drill more to make it my natural FH motion.

On the BH side I'm finally starting to find the BH loop/drive motion. I started finding it last week, and now it's getting better. I can now execute it with either a more brushing or more hitting motion, just like on the FH side, which allowed me to find in practice which balls I can drive and which I must brush in. I'm pretty excited about this development, it just feels so good when I hit it right. I find that leading with my elbow is key to get the best contact and really catch the ball, which I suppose is not surprising.

At the end we had some 3rd ball attack practices. My defence is really starting to become useful, thanks to all the blocking I do during the practice. I'm also trying to figure out ways to 3rd ball attack returns of my new reverse services. I'm really starting to sense that a BH dominant 3rd ball attack is the better option here as I got repeatedly jammed when I tried to pivot to use my FH.

On the exercise front, this type of practice runs longer, gets more intense but also has longer lulls when I just block. I topped out at 178 HR, but averaged only ~110 for the 3 1/2 hour session. As we improve our basics we're gonna start incorporating multiball, and that should up the intensity considerably. Right now we need to work on our blocking as much as our looping, so not quite ready yet.

 

[blahness]

Had a long training session yesterday with my practice partner. I'm getting more and more used to the new FH loop motion. It's pretty much at similar consistency level now as the old one in practice, but not yet in games when we practiced a few 3rd ball attacks at the end. This new stroke has naturally great topspin and far less sidespin, @Der_Echte's fingers will appreciate. I need to drill more to make it my natural FH motion.

On the BH side I'm finally starting to find the BH loop/drive motion. I started finding it last week, and now it's getting better. I can now execute it with either a more brushing or more hitting motion, just like on the FH side, which allowed me to find in practice which balls I can drive and which I must brush in. I'm pretty excited about this development, it just feels so good when I hit it right. I find that leading with my elbow is key to get the best contact and really catch the ball, which I suppose is not surprising.

At the end we had some 3rd ball attack practices. My defence is really starting to become useful, thanks to all the blocking I do during the practice. I'm also trying to figure out ways to 3rd ball attack returns of my new reverse services. I'm really starting to sense that a BH dominant 3rd ball attack is the better option here as I got repeatedly jammed when I tried to pivot to use my FH.

On the exercise front, this type of practice runs longer, gets more intense but also has longer lulls when I just block. I topped out at 178 HR, but averaged only ~110 for the 3 1/2 hour session. As we improve our basics we're gonna start incorporating multiball, and that should up the intensity considerably. Right now we need to work on our blocking as much as our looping, so not quite ready yet.

Yes, it is easier to use the BH dominant loop if you start with reverse serves to their BH. One of the best patterns i found is to serve it to their extreme BH, they will be scared of returning it down the line if you are deceptive enough and your spin is strong. And then you simply treat it like BH looping a FH pendulum serve from your opponent. If you go with the spin you can loop this with very high quality to their FH or middle and that's a major point winner - very difficult to move to the left to receive and then deal with down the line BH loop. Typically they can only block the ball, and then you just prepare to finish them off with a FH loopkill (do not use your BH for the finishing shot unless you think you're Darko Jorgic lol, i always make a shit ton of errors using my BH for these opportunity balls that I stopped trying).

But obviously if the opponent knows advanced techniques like chiquita or short push then this complicates things quite a bit.

You can also really bring your FH into play if you serve short into their extreme FH. Most of their returns will be to your diagonal and if you serve sidetop or side with some disguise they will pop up a lot of these for your FH loopkill. If they receive it to your BH it will always be long (too short a distance and the sidespin makes it hard to control short) so you can BH blast it diagonally to their wide BH and then take control of the point this way.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yes, it is easier to use the BH dominant loop if you start with reverse serves to their BH. One of the best patterns i found is to serve it to their extreme BH, they will be scared of returning it down the line if you are deceptive enough and your spin is strong. And then you simply treat it like BH looping a FH pendulum serve from your opponent. If you go with the spin you can loop this with very high quality to their FH or middle and that's a major point winner - very difficult to move to the left to receive and then deal with down the line BH loop. Typically they can only block the ball, and then you just prepare to finish them off with a FH loopkill (do not use your BH for the finishing shot unless you think you're Darko Jorgic lol, i always make a shit ton of errors using my BH for these opportunity balls that I stopped trying).

But obviously if the opponent knows advanced techniques like chiquita or short push then this complicates things quite a bit.

You can also really bring your FH into play if you serve short into their extreme FH. Most of their returns will be to your diagonal and if you serve sidetop or side with some disguise they will pop up a lot of these for your FH loopkill. If they receive it to your BH it will always be long (too short a distance and the sidespin makes it hard to control short) so you can BH blast it diagonally to their wide BH and then take control of the point this way.

Yes, I think we talked about it too, but I totally forgot about the part of treating the return like a pendulum serve. Yesterday when I started pivoting to my right to loop with my BH, it kind of just naturally when to his FH side, and yes, they were pretty much for winners.

I think I just need to get used to the various spin coming back. My reverse services, especially my reverse pendulum, is quite spinny. The hook is less spinny but rather well disguised. Both result in a lot more aces and very attackable balls, but I need to figure out a good sequence to attack them.

 

[dingyibvs]

Played a bit at the Concord club today, mostly practiced BH. The Concord club is in a basketball gym, which is kinda slippery already, but today the floor was extra dusty, I felt my feet sliding just by standing in the ready position. As such, practicing FH was pretty much out of the question as it requires too much movement. With the BH, I'm really starting to figure out the intricacies of the BH loop. Adding a bit of waist rotation is not just for power, it's really necessary for control. Without it I get very inconsistent contact and very poor placement. It's kinda odd, really. Maybe it's just me, but I need to do it for every shot or else it just goes wild.

A clubmate got 2 new sheets of rubber, a D09c and a H3 national 39 degrees. Charlie boosted (2 layers) and glued them both for him with some sort of booster I'd never heard of. He showed me the pictures of the rubbers after boosting. The D09c had a mild-moderate dome, but the H3 had barely any dome. I played with them before seeing the pics or even knowing the D09c was boosted too. They were glued onto a Viscaria, and I was like holy crap the D09c feels nice on the BH side. I thought it was just the blade, and maybe it was that too, but I've tried D09c on the Viscaria before and I think a lot of it was just the booster. It was probably too weak for the H3 though, as it really didn't feel very good. It was spinny, but the feeling is not clear, and the ball didn't have much dwell, much like an unboosted H3.

When I get my H3 37 and H3BS 40, I'll probably put 2 thick layers of Seamoon on it. It worked pretty well with the H3OS 40 I had, so I'm hoping it'll work well with those 2 as well. With how nice the D09c felt, I'm tempted to keep D09c on the BH side and try some FTL on it and see how it feels.

 

[banbekas]

Wew, today I managed to convince two more people to change their blade to a slower one. Had them try my blade and they were loving it.

Both are loopers, strong on the forehand but weak on the backhand. One of them is using Yinhe Pro 11S and the other is using Butterfly Mazunov. They were amazed just how much easier to loop ball with a 5 play wood blade. They