What is the best way to return side topsin serves?

[sky500]

Hi,

I have trouble returning half long and long side topspin balls. In theory I know that I have to brush over the ball but if i do it it still flies over the table. Maybe because my arc is not steep enough.
If I try tonjust touch it, it also flies over the table. At least the ball doesnt fly that high anymore like when I opened my blade but still. Any ideas or videos on how to savely return a topspin ball as an amateur?

 

[blahness]

A tip, use sideways movement to control the outgoing length. For eg if you are BH looping or chiquitaing a sidetop serve contact the top half of the ball and while brushing over the ball you should also try to drag it down and sideways to the right.

Same with FH loop, you can make your loop shorter by dragging it more downwards and sideways to the left.

Also use your entire body to control the ball, it is not just using the arm.

 

[sky500]

A tip, use sideways movement to control the outgoing length. For eg if you are BH looping or chiquitaing a sidetop serve contact the top half of the ball and while brushing over the ball you should also try to drag it down and sideways to the right.

Same with FH loop, you can make your loop shorter by dragging it more downwards and sideways to the left.

Also use your entire body to control the ball, it is not just using the arm.

Thanks for the tip, perhaps do you have a video showing it. It's a bit hard to imagine for me

 

[dingyibvs]

Thanks for the tip, perhaps do you have a video showing it. It's a bit hard to imagine for me

Let me try another way of explaining it. You know how your racket moves in an arc when you loop, like a part of a circle? Shorten your stroke and make the arc smaller, as if it's a part of a smaller circle.

 

[Lazer]

Maybe you are too close to the table and don’t have enough time to react. The long serves tend to be fast.
Try backing a little bit, If I face a player with real fast serves I stand further back. It’s always easier to move forward…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[sky500]

Let me try another way of explaining it. You know how your racket moves in an arc when you loop, like a part of a circle? Shorten your stroke and make the arc smaller, as if it's a part of a smaller circle.

Maybe I have to add that I'm left handed. But as far as I understand just brush the ball with a shorter stroke. I will try it

 

[sky500]

Maybe you are too close to the table and don’t have enough time to react. The long serves tend to be fast.
Try backing a little bit, If I face a player with real fast serves I stand further back. It’s always easier to move forward…

Cheers
L-zr

It's more the slower ones but with side or topspin. With fast topspins, I can somehow just drive them quite well, taken into account that I can react to them. With tomahawk serves it is a bit more difficult, because they go to the side. But with slower ones that are still half long or long, I have the most problems. Maybe it's only sidespin. To be honest, I still have difficulties to differ topspin and side spin apart. But they tend to fly high and to my left side after receiving it with an open blade, which I know is wrong.

 

[Lazer]

It's more the slower ones but with side or topspin. With fast topspins, I can somehow just drive them quite well, taken into account that I can react to them. With tomahawk serves it is a bit more difficult, because they go to the side. But with slower ones that are still half long or long, I have the most problems. Maybe it's only sidespin. To be honest, I still have difficulties to differ topspin and side spin apart. But they tend to fly high and to my left side after receiving it with an open blade, which I know is wrong.

There is normally some topspin on tomahawks. If you back up and counter them hard. Aim for the backhand side (for a Right handed player) and you will hit in the middle.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Long Pimples or Antis. Period!

 

[canonFH]

I learned this technique from Fang Bo's livestream. He explained that for long side topspin balls, it is better to return the same sidespin your receive. On short serves, its better to do the opposite. I forgot how the theory went but I have tried it in matches and it works.

For example, if I am receiving a pendulum serve short on my FH, I touch it on the right side and rub it in the opposite direction to keep it short. But for a long serve, I play inside-out FH rather than the natural angle FH, or just take it on my BH as it goes with the natural angle BH. This is for players with same handedness.

There is a video on YT by Seth Pech on receiving serves which is very good. I think that would explain it much better.

 

[Zezima]

The concept is going with or against the spin.

On short serves: go against the spin

On longer serves: go with the spin so against tomahawk serves you go with the hook motion ("with the spin"). You can go against the spin aswell but they say its harder to control.

 

[ttarc]

[table tennis]The most feared by amateur players,how to handle different side-spin of long serve (don't know if this is video from the live stream)

Seth Pech's videos
Serve Return Tips No One Tells You with Seth Pech Part 1

Serve Return Tips No One Tells You with Seth Pech Part 2

How to Return SIDE SPIN Serve's | eBaTT - Tutorial #30

The concept is going with or against the spin.

On short serves: go against the spin

On longer serves: go with the spin so against tomahawk serves you go with the hook motion ("with the spin"). You can go against the spin aswell but they say its harder to control.

Exactly. I would add that to keep the return (of a short serve) short it is easier to go with the spin.
We should also not forget footwork. Start with a small step or jump when the ball is tossed up to setup your muscles and than move to the right position when we know where the ball is going. It doesn't help much when we know how to return each serve but have to reach for the ball with a straight arm.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is worth actually understanding spin in the first place.

On a pure topspin ball, the ball will arc down towards the table. If you try to contact the back of the ball or the bottom of the ball (like for chopping or pushing), the ball will POP UP. You know what to do with a topspin ball right? Usually, covering the top of the ball causes the ball to propel out instead of up and the incoming topspin will add to your power if you do that. If you have your racket at the right angle as you cover the top of the ball and you don't even move your racket, the ball will go back and be a decent shot: that is called a block. That is what blocking a topspin shot is, right: using the momentum of the ball and the spin on the ball to propel the ball back because you touched the ball in a way that compensates for the spin on the ball.

On a pure backspin ball, without gravity the ball would arc up. However, because of gravity, a backspin ball has a kind of flat tradjectory (gravity is trying to pull the ball down and the spin is trying to cause the ball to arc up - that combined causes a flat trajectory until the ball loses pace and starts to fall). On a backspin ball, you already know that if you contact the back or the top, the ball will get Pulled DOWN. If you contact some part of the bottom of the ball, that will propel the backspin ball forward and the backspin on the incoming ball will give your ball some pace and add to your backspin. This is also why, on a push vs heavy backspin, if you touch the ball lightly in the right place, the ball will just do the rest and go over the net with a pretty good amount of backspin without you adding almost any forward momentum force to help the ball go in the direction you are guiding it.

So, to sum up: if the ball is curving down as a result of the spin, you cover the top of the ball if you want to compensate for the spin; if the ball is trying to curve up against gravity, you contact some part of the bottom of the ball if you want to compensate for the spin. Right? And then if you understand this, there are hundreds of things you can do to the ball to change the spin that you send back including going against the spin and having your stroke angle compensate for the spin while going against the spin instead of going with the spin: A loop vs backspin is an example of this. Someone who knows how to push a topspin serve with heavy backspin is also an example of this.

But for the simple concept to get started feeling what to do, think about this based on the above information:

1) If the sidespin on the ball causes the ball curving towards your FH side, how would you contact the ball to simply put your racket out and compensate for that sidespin?

2) If the sidespin on the ball causes the ball to curve towards your BH side, how would you contact the ball to simply put your racket out and compensate for that sidespin?

Think about it.

If you really think about it, then it will open up many ways you can respond to those serves that are giving you trouble.

 

[sky500]

I learned this technique from Fang Bo's livestream. He explained that for long side topspin balls, it is better to return the same sidespin your receive. On short serves, its better to do the opposite. I forgot how the theory went but I have tried it in matches and it works.

For example, if I am receiving a pendulum serve short on my FH, I touch it on the right side and rub it in the opposite direction to keep it short. But for a long serve, I play inside-out FH rather than the natural angle FH, or just take it on my BH as it goes with the natural angle BH. This is for players with same handedness.

There is a video on YT by Seth Pech on receiving serves which is very good. I think that would explain it much better.

One question, since there is topspin in the ball, do you brush with a closed blade angle? It's a bit difficult for me to imagine because if it is backspin, it feels more natural but for top spin im unsure regarding blade angle and brushing at the same time

 

[Peter93]

One question, since there is topspin in the ball, do you brush with a closed blade angle? It's a bit difficult for me to imagine because if it is backspin, it feels more natural but for top spin im unsure regarding blade angle and brushing at the same time

If the serve has topspin on it you *have* to keep the racket closed. You stated in your original post that the ball keeps going out. If the ball keeps going out, you aren't closing the racket enough, and doubly so because you are close to the table and need the ball to come back down.

 

[God-scrubplayer]

whynot have ur friedn serve it to you and you figure out yourself the best way tyo receive it

 

[canonFH]

One question, since there is topspin in the ball, do you brush with a closed blade angle? It's a bit difficult for me to imagine because if it is backspin, it feels more natural but for top spin im unsure regarding blade angle and brushing at the same time

Blade angle depends somewhat on the rubbers and blade. I play with slow rubbers and all wood blade so it is easier for me to make a big stroke and still keep the ball on the table. Usually, the more spin you impart to the ball, the safer it is to play it with power as well.

For imparting spin, the angle of the blade is not as important as it is the fact that you brush it. Angle will dictate where you hit the ball. If you brush it enough, you can hit with an open blade and still keep the ball on the table. Rest, as someone said, you have to put table time to really understand it. Understanding it in theory is not enough.

More videos on serve receive:

 

[Zezima]

Blade angle depends somewhat on the rubbers and blade. I play with slow rubbers and all wood blade so it is easier for me to make a big stroke and still keep the ball on the table. Usually, the more spin you impart to the ball, the safer it is to play it with power as well.

For imparting spin, the angle of the blade is not as important as it is the fact that you brush it. Angle will dictate where you hit the ball. If you brush it enough, you can hit with an open blade and still keep the ball on the table. Rest, as someone said, you have to put table time to really understand it. Understanding it in theory is not enough.

More videos on serve receive:

nothing against him as a person but his videos are translated very bad

 

[igorponger]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuox_populi

One teacher and one doctor is enough to make you healthy, wealthy and wise.
_______________
Be happy all

 

[turbozed]

nothing against him as a person but his videos are translated very bad

The first video is easy to understand and a mess. The second and third videos are a mess.

If someone who can understand Chinese can summarize the last two, that'd be really helpful.

From what I've tried to piece together, Fang Yinchi is saying for backspin sidespin short balls, you can just go forward with a small lift to drop short. And for pure sidespin short you want to contact the same side of the ball as the server, making the spin die and taking away the energy of the ball.