Huge Delima, I play with both hands and not improving

[JFearH]

Hello Folks,

I am in a huge Delima, and I could really use some advice, perhaps someone who has been in same situation as me. I started playing table tennis roughly 6 years ago and only stopped playing due to the pandemic. I am right-handed. Roughly 10 years ago, I injured my right shoulder. It healed to the point where basic activities and weightlifting wouldn't hurt me however after playing a few games, the previous injury would start to get aggravated due to repetitive movements. I am assuming this is due to me being 5'7 and me attacking the ball putting my shoulder in subacromial decompression (impingement). Due to this reason I started to play with my left hand. I noticed that since I am not a left-handed person, it was very difficult for me to attack the ball with my left forehand. However, my defense was very good with my left hand. I could easily return good spiny serves with my left hand. I noticed that I would win games with my left hand if the opponent doesn't attack but was not confident enough to attack and make rallies in to winning point. I got frustrated and decided to play with both hands. Not sure if this was a mistake?

Recently I started playing again at work with folks have only been playing for 1 year (the good folks don't play here). Initially I tried to use me being able to play with both hands to my advantage. For instance, if I know a person is right-handed then I can serve them long and fast top spin or right-side spin with my left hand which would force them to return with their right backhand. I used to serve with my both hands to my advantage for a very long time until I became predictable. I can attack easily with my right hand but cannot defend spiny serves. Similarly, I can defend easily with my left hand but cannot attack accurately. Now all my opponents check which hand I am holding my paddle and serve me accordingly.

Now I know that I need to improve but I am curious if what I initially thought would be my advantage is turning out to be a bottle neck where it's hindering my improvement? Would I be better off sticking to my left hand and continue to improve my game even if I start losing initially and need to improve my forehand technique or should is stick to same style of playing which has some vulnerabilities. I still win 75% of my games but sometimes I even struggle against people that have less table time than me. Please advise as I really love this game and would love to improve.

 

[Jslick89]

Sorry to hear about your lingering shoulder injury. I've been dealing with a lower back for nearly a decade now. Sucks. I spend a lot of time doing strengthening exercises to try and prevent old aches and pains coming.

To answer your question though- i think you need to pick a hand and stick with it. If you are using both hands you are definitely hindering your progress in one way or another.

If you can now play with your right hand and not suffer any additional injuries, that is what you should do. If it ends up hurting too much...then you need to decide to focus on your left. Either way, you need to decide so that you can advance your skills with your chosen hand.

 

[dingyibvs]

Is there a rule that says you can't play with 2 rackets, 1 in each hand?

 

[JFearH]

Sorry to hear about your lingering shoulder injury. I've been dealing with a lower back for nearly a decade now. Sucks. I spend a lot of time doing strengthening exercises to try and prevent old aches and pains coming.

To answer your question though- i think you need to pick a hand and stick with it. If you are using both hands you are definitely hindering your progress in one way or another.

If you can now play with your right hand and not suffer any additional injuries, that is what you should do. If it ends up hurting too much...then you need to decide to focus on your left. Either way, you need to decide so that you can advance your skills with your chosen hand.

I'm sorry to hear that as well. I have genetic condition that makes me really prone to injuries. My left shoulder is also injured but significantly better than right and doesn't get irritated that easily compared to my right. Few months back I was playing 3 times a week and switching between hands but playing more attacking with my right and it took 2 weeks for the inflammation on my right to calm down.

Do you think this would be a good strategy. If I stick to my right, I could play my natural game but if i see that inflammation is coming back then I can switch from forehand loops to backhand loops because in forehand loop I need to internally rotate my shoulder which is what causes impingement. Do you think this would be better strategy than switching arms? This way I can try to keep inflammation at bay by using different techniques. Or just start playing with only left. Even though left is slightly injured i could still aggravate it. I probably haven't pushed hard enough with my left hand since forehand loop is my weakness with left.

Is there a rule that says you can't play with 2 rackets, 1 in each hand?

Not sure about a rule but my friends for sure don't let me play with paddle in each hand lol but even then if i could then it means i need to practice each stroke with each hand, correct? Wouldnt that set me back because i have to do twice the work as others

 

[NetProphet]

Is there a rule that says you can't play with 2 rackets, 1 in each hand?

Yes, yes there is 😂
It's covered somewhere in the laws by reference to the racket and the free hand being the hand not holding the racket.

 

[blahness]

Is there a rule that says you can't play with 2 rackets, 1 in each hand?

Nope, nothing in the rules stops it despite certain ppl being very upset

I do that to troll ppl and to have fun lol... my left hand is grandpa style OX LP penhold, and my right hand is my double inverted setup. There are some devastating combos available which opponents can only laugh about.

I gotta say it is not a weak setup, i actually won a few games against some strong players with it.

But the time investment is just a bit too much for an amateur.

 

[blahness]

Yes, yes there is 😂
It's covered somewhere in the laws by reference to the racket and the free hand being the hand not holding the racket.

you can't make rules which are based on 'implications'. For eg saying 'the law implies X' therefore X is valid. No - the law has to be specific.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

1. I suggest find a coach, and let the coach guide you with the correct technique. Wrong technique are easier to cause injury

2. the law of table tennis only talks about "singular" racket, it doesn't talk about rackets, so that is clear for me that only 1 racket is allowed during play. You can think about changing hands during play, as that would give some different variation to your play. But still let the coach guide you

 

[Yuomay]

Good advice Tony. If you have access to a coach this person would be best suited to judge. If not, you might indeed consider developing your style based on being ambidextrous.

 

[NetProphet]

you can't make rules which are based on 'implications'. For eg saying 'the law implies X' therefore X is valid. No - the law has to be specific.

Ah, no I don't think you are correct here.
You can infer laws from implication, it's done all the time.
While it's fair to argue that something as basic as the number of rackets a player can use should be clearly stated, the fact remains that if it's not stated then the answer can be inferred from other statements and other rules. This is because it's impossible to write such documents that can cover every single possible scenario that may lead to a challenge to the rules.
I haven't read the entire rule book and from what I did read I certainly cannot remember everything but it is known (even if not explicitly stated) that Table Tennis is played with one racket.

It may be explicitly stated somewhere in the rule book but, assuming it's not, the one racket understanding is implied where the rules referring to racket hand and free hand.
I'd imagine this (if not explicitly stated in the rules under equipment or whatever) is possibly addressed in appendices or code of conduct or maybe the interpretation section. Yes, there is even a section on interpretation!

Hopefully someone who knows better can chip in. I don't fancy going through the entire book but I am curious now what part actually covers this best.....🤔

 

[blahness]

Ah, no I don't think you are correct here.
You can infer laws from implication, it's done all the time.
While it's fair to argue that something as basic as the number of rackets a player can use should be clearly stated, the fact remains that if it's not stated then the answer can be inferred from other statements and other rules. This is because it's impossible to write such documents that can cover every single possible scenario that may lead to a challenge to the rules.
I haven't read the entire rule book and from what I did read I certainly cannot remember everything but it is known (even if not explicitly stated) that Table Tennis is played with one racket.

It may be explicitly stated somewhere in the rule book but assuming it's not this (one racket) understanding has the implication of the rules referring to racket hand and free hand.
I'd imagine this (if not explicitly stated in the rules under equipment or whatever) is possibly addressed in appendices or code of conduct or maybe the interpretation section. Yes, there is even a section on interpretation!

Hopefully someone who knows better can chip in. I don't fancy going through the entire book but I am curious now what part actually covers this best.....🤔

No, it is innocent until proven 'guilty'.

For eg around the net shots are not covered in the handbook. Would you assume that it is illegal simply because it is not covered? I could use your argument here. Given the presence of a net, it is 'implied' that shots need to clear the net height and hence around the net shots are illegal.

There are many things for eg are not covered but is still considered legal.

I actually researched this a bit, and since there is absolutely no clause which bans two hands and two rackets, one cannot challenge the legality of it.

 

[NetProphet]

No, it is innocent until proven 'guilty'.

For eg around the net shots are not covered in the handbook. Would you assume that it is illegal simply because it is not covered? I could use your argument here. Given the presence of a net, it is 'implied' that shots need to clear the net height and hence around the net shots are illegal.

There are many things for eg are not covered but is still considered legal.

I actually researched this a bit, and since there is absolutely no clause which bans two hands and two rackets, one cannot challenge the legality of it.

You're flawed here.
Innocent until proven guilty is something else entirely.
And the over the net argument is silly, have a read the ittf rules and see why.
You should also try playing with a racket in each hand to see what happens.
If you read my post again after you do that at your club or competition then I'm sure my post will make even more sense 😉

 

[blahness]

You're flawed here.
Innocent until proven guilty is something else entirely.
And the over the net argument is silly, have a read the ittf rules and see why.
You should also try playing with a racket in each hand to see what happens.
I'd you read my post again after you do that at your club or competition you'll soon understand my post much better 😉

Lazy to argue here, I already played plenty with this setup at clubs. Most ppl were quite happy to play against it, and thought it was cool. Only the boomers in the club couldnt accept it and i think unfortunately this sport has way too many boomers....

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

very easy, the ones who believe they can play with 2 rackets in the same - bring it to sanction tournament and test it out.

as i read the racket clause, it is all singular racket.
not racket/s or rackets.

it is clear for me. I do wish for the 2 racket to be tested and hopefully live broadcast for us to see what happens.

just a question, where will one hold the 2nd racket when tossing the serve?
can't put it on the table

 

[NetProphet]

Lazy to argue here, I already played plenty with this setup at clubs. Most ppl were quite happy to play against it, and thought it was cool. Only the boomers in the club couldnt accept it and i think unfortunately this sport has way too many boomers....

If you play with a racket in each hand at your club it's probably a good bit of fun but you also encountered pushback.
Now having something against boomers is your own issue and I'm not getting into that except to say that anyone born between 1946-1964 with opinions on the game should probably be listened to rather than disrespected.
Try it in competition and tell us what happens 😂
The net is the obstacle to hitting th bother side of the table, going around or over it are both allowed.
The rules refer to the racket, the free hand, the free arm etc because the implicit understanding is that only one racket is used.
It even refers to inspection of the racket and the racket being left on the table at time outs etc. nowhere is it referred as plural.
I see your point kind of and if you really think that this possibility exists and you or anyone can exploit the rules to play this way then I'd say please go ahead.
I'd actually love to see what happens and someone who knows more about the rules than me will likely be better able to explain why you can't do it.
But I can assure you of one thing, if you were to take this same approach to life in order to do whatever you want because it's not specifically prohibited by any explicit law you wouldn't get very far! Some rules are just understood even when unwritten.
It might just be that one racket only falls into this category too!?

 

[JFearH]

Playing with racket in two hands draws too much attention even if my opponents allow it. My question really is if i should continue switching hands between points or during rally or learn to play with just one hand and work more on my footwork, timing and bh/fh stroke playing with the hand i choose with and hope i don't aggravate my shoulder injury more.

 

[Amayzde]

As someone who has been plagued by a torn labrum and has been in and out of table tennis for about the last 10 years, I have some experience when it comes to aggravating shoulders.

I also played with my left hand for some time, because I tried everything not to have to quit. Unfortunately my left shoulder didnt like that either, because I was learning the fast attacking strokes already after a few weeks of playing. And my shoulder muscles couldn’t keep up with how fast I was (re)learning to play.

But there is hope! Because I can happily say that I have been playing without problems for a little over a year now. And here is how I did it.

1. You need rest to let the aggravation go away. I don’t know how bad it is or how long it will take. I quit (for good at the time) in 2019, and I only picked up the racket in the summer of last year. So I have had a good 4 years of rest without form of aggravation.

And I agree, 4 years is unbearably long. But at least a month would be recommended. So you could still play with your other hand if you don’t want to put the racket down, but make sure you don’t play with your dominant hand during this time.

2. During this month, you are gonna have to do rotator cuff exercises for 3 times a week. You don’t need 20 different exercises, just pick 1 (I did external rotations with a rubber band) and do it 3 times a week, for 3 sets of 12-15 repetitions. You wanna keep doing these for the rest of your table tennis career. I know its boring, but better then quitting or pain when playing.

3. After you had your month of rest and have done your exercises, start slow. I would recommend playing only once a week, for 1 hour.

4. Learn the right technique, especially for the attacking strokes. This is going to be REALLY important if you wanna keep playing long term. A forehand or backhand topspin with proper body mechanics shouldnt require too much shoulder strength. I recommend watching Ti Long on YouTube for this. He probably explains it the most clear for most people to understand.

I wish you best of luck with this! This is not going to be a quick fix, you might have to start over a few times, but patience and not going to fast too soon is key!

 

[blahness]

If you play with a racket in each hand at your club it's probably a good bit of fun but you also encountered pushback.
Now having something against boomers is your own issue and I'm not getting into that except to say that anyone born between 1946-1964 with opinions on the game should probably be listened to rather than disrespected.
Try it in competition and tell us what happens 😂
The net is the obstacle to hitting th bother side of the table, going around or over it are both allowed.
The rules refer to the racket, the free hand, the free arm etc because the implicit understanding is that only one racket is used.
It even refers to inspection of the racket and the racket being left on the table at time outs etc. nowhere is it referred as plural.
I see your point kind of and if you really think that this possibility exists and you or anyone can exploit the rules to play this way then I'd say please go ahead.
I'd actually love to see what happens and someone who knows more about the rules than me will likely be better able to explain why you can't do it.
But I can assure you of one thing, if you were to take this same approach to life in order to do whatever you want because it's not specifically prohibited by any explicit law you wouldn't get very far! Some rules are just understood even when unwritten.
It might just be that one racket only falls into this category too!?

Singular vs plural is the worst kind of argument lol, it shows how much you are reaching.

I'm also a startup founder these days and if i had your attitude nothing would ever get done... following unwritten rules and whatnot.

Sorry but I cant help but generalize because even in TT, boomers have consistently been the most unpleasant group of ppl to deal with. Majority of them use dirty tricks like no toss or hidden serves, illegally treated rubbers, and other weird shit. I try to avoid them whenever I can because I play to have fun and not to get disgusted by them. 99% of the time if I play with ppl my generation we will have a good time, win or lose.

Boomers are also the ones who are usually the most resistant to change (but the ones who have enriched themselves at the expense of all future generations). There are a huge ton of ppl who dont like ppl from this generation either.

 

[NetProphet]

Singular vs plural is the worst kind of argument lol, it shows how much you are reaching.

Singular V plural is exactly what this is about man, or have you forgotten the nature of our differing views?
I think any sane person will find that you are the one reaching here. And you've twisted this neatly to say "following unwritten rules" as if that's the problem.
Reality check. EVERYONE who plays TT follows the unwritten rule, following it is not the problem. Ignoring it is where you are going to find resistance and issue with just about everyone.
You are trying to justify that someone can play TT with a racket in each hand and willfully ignoring everything I've said.
To say I'm reaching would be everyone playing with 2 rackets and ME trying to change convention to one racket.
Pushing the boat to ask permission later with a startup company is a different scenario entirely.
While I've no idea what age you are your attitude to an entire generation is really crazy but if you've convinced yourself it should be ok to play with 2 rackets then I'll guess you can convince yourself of anything. 😉

 

[blahness]

Singular V plural is exactly what this is about man, or have you forgotten the nature of our differing views?
I think any sane person will find that you are the one reaching here. And you've twisted this neatly to say "following unwritten rules" as if that's the problem.
Reality check. EVERYONE who plays TT follows the unwritten rule, following it is not the problem. Ignoring it is where you are going to find resistance and issue with just about everyone.
You are trying to justify that someone can play TT with a racket in each hand and willfully ignoring everything I've said.
To say I'm reaching would be everyone playing with 2 rackets and ME trying to change convention to one racket.
Pushing the boat to ask permission later with a startup company is a different scenario entirely.
While I've no idea what age you are your attitude to an entire generation is really crazy but if you've convinced yourself it should be ok to play with 2 rackets then I'll guess you can convince yourself of anything. 😉

That is precisely my point. Only boomers had a problem with it (even though they are flouting many actual rules including illegal and unfair no toss/hidden serves, treated rubbers, etc...). All the younger generation i played with the setup thought it was a really cool idea and we had a blast playing. You see, boomers are the most anti-fun ppl around in TT. Sorry but it is kinda true

Since you keep on talking about 'convention' and by extension 'tradition' I guess you're part of the uncool crowd too. No wonder almost nobody likes to play TT anymore, when there is a lot of ppl like this in clubs.

I played badminton yesterday and had a real blast lol. Everyone had similar equipment and really it is pure skill and nothing else, with none of the absolute bullshit I see in TT these days... also the younger crowd are almost all there for very good reasons.