WTT Star Contender Doha 2025 - 6-11 Jan 2025

[Shine]

Depends what you mean by similar but the Koreans and Japanese in fact do not have nearly as many practice partners to choose from who have the level and style they are looking to practice with.

Funny thing is the Chinese themselves do not have as many practice partners to choose from anyway, like who's Harimoto obvious clone on that team, or Felix or LYJ??
I think it's high time you look at the realities on ground, and not what some article and myths from years ago say about the team.

 

[Shine]

K

Kuai Man, anyone? Can you provide the articles with the negative connotations of Chinese clone? I at least provided am article from a successful TT coach in Maryland, you just provide your righteousness.

In fact, more discussion of the topic led to the conclusion that cloning is just a stage of development that many players go through until they are main national team members and that current national team members have been clones in the past. But it is okay, maybe there is something deeper to this i don't understand. Maybe you lost something personal and are traumatized by my use of the word. Sorry for your loss.

Kuai style of play has nothing in common with Hayata at all, it's laughable.
She plays like old Ding Ning when she's sedate, and like a lefty stocky LSW when she's in form. So I'm curious how you're able to label someone with that tag when they're so different, there's a psychology behind it that you're unwilling to explore. But that's cool.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Funny thing is the Chinese themselves do not have as many practice partners to choose from anyway, like who's Harimoto obvious clone on that team, or Felix or LYJ??
I think it's high time you look at the realities on ground, and not what some article and myths from years ago say about the team.

Just because they do not have a clone for every single player you can list doesn't mean that they don't have them for anyone.

Let's talk about realities on the ground. I have spoken to and seen directly a good number of players who are currently active and openly admit their only role on the CNT at this point of their careers is what they can offer as practice partners.

How many current or recent CNT players or coaches have you met and spoken to? Have they told you that practice partner clones are an obsolete practice?

 

[ThePongCommenter]

K
Kuai style of play has nothing in common with Hayata at all, it's laughable.
She plays like old Ding Ning when she's sedate, and like a lefty stocky LSW when she's in form. So I'm curious how you're able to label someone with that tag when they're so different, there's a psychology behind it that you're unwilling to explore. But that's cool.

Kuai Man was very obviously the response to your statement that QTY is the only successful lefty on the CNT stage currently, but congrats on the hysterical reaction yet again.

 

[NextLevel]

K
Kuai style of play has nothing in common with Hayata at all, it's laughable.
She plays like old Ding Ning when she's sedate, and like a lefty stocky LSW when she's in form. So I'm curious how you're able to label someone with that tag when they're so different, there's a psychology behind it that you're unwilling to explore. But that's cool.

You said Qian Tianyi was the only successful lefty and I pointed out Kuai Man. As for whether someone has to play exactly like someone to mimic them, I will leave you to your understanding of table tennis. In any case though, I don't need your righteousness, I need facts.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Chinese clone has always had a negative connotation to it. You're always quick to bring that article from 20 years ago of the guy who played in China and knows all the "secrets".
You can't do better than petty denial. She's the only Chinese lefty doing relatively well on the big stage, and you're already calling her the Hayata clone. Who are you fooling?

Are Zhang Rui and Mima Ito an article and myth from 20 years ago? That was one of the more recent and well documented examples among many others.

 

[zeio]

Chinese clone has always had a negative connotation to it. You're always quick to bring that article from 20 years ago of the guy who played in China and knows all the "secrets".
You can't do better than petty denial. She's the only Chinese lefty doing relatively well on the big stage, and you're already calling her the Hayata clone. Who are you fooling?

This debate (or bickering?) reminds me of a locker-room talk with a club member who was a div 1 player. It was back around World Cup 2010 and he was like how the core CNT players could win against the likes of Boll and Oh Sangeun by performing at 70-80%, and how "陪練都勁撚過你/even the sparring partners were fucking stronger than you" (said with a conceited smile).

Therefore, as far as the general public goes, the sentiment around 模仿對手/imitation players (the proper noun in Chinese) or 陪練/sparring partners (more general term) is not unlike Mao's famous quote, "戰略上藐觀敵人，戰術上重視敵人/strategically look down on the enemy and tactically pay attention to the enemy".

This negative connotation is also noticeable over the practice of closed training.

 

[Shine]

Just because they do not have a clone for every single player you can list doesn't mean that they don't have them for anyone.

Let's talk about realities on the ground. I have spoken to and seen directly a good number of players who are currently active and openly admit their only role on the CNT at this point of their careers is what they can offer as practice partners.

How many current or recent CNT players or coaches have you met and spoken to? Have they told you that practice partner clones are an obsolete practice?

I have spoken to many too actually. Just as you have. In La La Land.
And what role would you expect them to play on the CNT by the way??
You act like they're restricted or completely at the designs of the coaches when they're not. Every year there's a couple of players retiring from the team when they find something better. Spots to play at the biggest tournaments are only five or six, so tough luck to them, they've gotta beat the big 5 and earn their place. Tournaments are only few and far between. When they don't come out to play, the narrative is they've been relegated to simply practice partners, and when they do come out to play, you ask what Xue Fei is doing on the national team. Try being consistent.

 

[Shine]

Are Zhang Rui and Mima Ito an article and myth from 20 years ago? That was one of the more recent and well documented examples among many others.

Of course it was, even Sun Mingyang was a practice partner due to the similarity of their equipment.


My question is who are Xue Fei, and Kuai Man practice partners for?

 

[NextLevel]

He's still getting chances because he's a player on the national team duh?
Who the hell is Xue Fei cloning for him to be getting chances to play at Feeders event? His style is so dissimilar to everyone out there
He's a national team player, of course he'd get chances to play although these chances are few and far between

Felix? Qiu Dang?

 

[NextLevel]

Are Zhang Rui and Mima Ito an article and myth from 20 years ago? That was one of the more recent and well documented examples among many others.

Emm.. Zhang Rui plays nothing like Mima Ito... no way she could be a Mima Ito clone...

That's the logic of some here.... so there!

 

[NextLevel]

Of course it was, even Sun Mingyang was a practice partner due to the similarity of their equipment.


My question is who are Xue Fei, and Kuai Man practice partners for?

Sun Mingyang is much bigger than Mima Ito... she also uses Chinese rubber on forehand. Try again.

 

[Shine]

Felix? Qiu Dang?

Then I'd see him coming for practice at the big tourneys. Predictably he's nowhere to be found, and your fact based knowledge is reaching for the stars, as usual.

 

[Shine]

Sun Mingyang is much bigger than Mima Ito... she also uses Chinese rubber on forehand. Try again.

Eh, a man likes what he likes...
Can't fault your sensitivity to size.
But I was talking about the pips.
Similarity is in
the pips
They want to mimic the feeling of the pips.
Too hard for you to fathom, Mr fact checker?

 

[Shine]

Your logic from your "discussions" is to assume that all players must have been cloning someone on the come up, even a youngster already being prepared for the big stage as early as 16,17 are clones because of their playing hand. That's quite flawless logic I must say. Aristotle is turning in his grave in awe at the marvel you just synthesized.

Emm.. Zhang Rui plays nothing like Mima Ito... no way she could be a Mima Ito clone...

That's the logic of some here.... so there!

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Then I'd see him coming for practice at the big tourneys. Predictably he's nowhere to be found, and your fact based knowledge is reaching for the stars, as usual.

Where would you see him "coming for practice"? Are you in the practice court and players/staff only areas where the practice partners/physios/admin staff generally stay confined to?

 

[NextLevel]

Eh, a man likes what he likes...
Can't fault your sensitivity to size.
But I was talking about the pips.
Similarity is in
the pips
They want to mimic the feeling of the pips.
Too hard for you to fathom, Mr fact checker?

Not at all, iI am pointing out the level of stupidity in saying things like Qian Tianyi plays nothing like Hina Hayata, you do realize that Lin Gao Yuan has cloned Boll in practice. That said, sarcasm is not your strong point, grasshopper.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I have spoken to many too actually. Just as you have. In La La Land.

Usually when people find it impossible to believe that connections and direct reliable information to the CNT or other top players exist, it's a sign that they are complete casuals who have zero connection to or experience in the pro landscape. But surely you aren't one of these people.

In your case, since you know so much about the CNT and CNT-related matters and people, perhaps you can fill me in on who these people are, if they are directly connected to CNT players and coaches, what they have in common, and whether they are people actively involved in the USA (see my flair) scene or if they are mythical and untouchable beings. This is just a very short list to keep things brief.

Gao Jun - I'll give you a hint on this one. Close friend of and highly respected by Liu Guoliang, as well as top players on the CNT. CNT players stand at attention and pay the utmost respect when she enters the room and speaks and she is the main reason there have been so many CNT and USANT ping pong diplomacy events, collaborations (such as mixed doubles at the 2021 Houston WTTC) and closed trainings / pre-tournament training sessions.

Tao Wenzhang
Zhou Xin
Kou Lei
Jinbao Ma
Wang Wei
Wang Hui
Bob Chen
Jishan Liang
Lily Zhang
Xiangjing Zhang

Your logic from your "discussions" is to assume that all players must have been cloning someone on the come up, even a youngster already being prepared for the big stage as early as 16,17 are clones because of their playing hand. That's quite flawless logic I must say. Aristotle is turning in his grave in awe at the marvel you just synthesized.

They are not groomed to be "clones" from an early age. Rather they are selected and given opportunities to train with the CNT once they reach a high enough level and if they have an in-demand characteristic that meets a certain need that the team wants. You should know this as someone who is clearly very in tune with what goes on with the CNT so why would you suggest that?

Funny thing is the Chinese themselves do not have as many practice partners to choose from anyway

Oh really? Then why do they bring an entourage several times the size of any other national team's to all the major tournaments and most of the mid tier ones as well? Why do they bring such a big team that oftentimes there is a CNT-only hotel and then another one where everyone else has to stay? For every training partner, physio, coach, admin staff that players from other countries have, Chinese team will often have maybe 2-5x more. Anyone who has actually been behind the scenes maybe such as @Tony's Table Tennis knows this, I'm surprised you don't?

 

[NextLevel]

Your logic from your "discussions" is to assume that all players must have been cloning someone on the come up, even a youngster already being prepared for the big stage as early as 16,17 are clones because of their playing hand. That's quite flawless logic I must say. Aristotle is turning in his grave in awe at the marvel you just synthesized.

Not at all, I don't share all that i know or see with noise makers. It really is that straightforward. When they go to the Olympics, you really think all those players are there for

Then I'd see him coming for practice at the big tourneys. Predictably he's nowhere to be found, and your fact based knowledge is reaching for the stars, as usual.

The entourage that travels with players at big tournaments is pretty large. Can you name some of the practice partners that flew to the WTTC in Houston who never played a match? Just to see your ability to know who shows up and who doesn't...

I remember casually getting a picture of Lin Shidong from a friend in the training halls before I ever knew who he was (this was around the time of Houston). The friend was telling me that this was the next generation of Chinese World Championship players. I knew Xiang Peng but I had never heard of Lin at that time. I thought they didn't have bigger talents but than Xiang but I can see the future clearly now...

 

[NextLevel]

Your logic from your "discussions" is to assume that all players must have been cloning someone on the come up, even a youngster already being prepared for the big stage as early as 16,17 are clones because of their playing hand. That's quite flawless logic I must say. Aristotle is turning in his grave in awe at the marvel you just synthesized.

It's not to assume, zeio posted a list of some clones of star opponents and it included Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu. If you think zeio is a liar, take it up with him. There are aspects of the cloning system that are inoffensive. But if a player doesn't have a superstar trajectory, it can look punitive even when it isn't. Hence the woke behavior of those who can only shine a light on their emotions and have no facts to share...