WTT Star Contender Doha 2025 - 6-11 Jan 2025

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Daily journey of Zhang Rui

6am - wake up
6:30am morning run
8:30am warming up for training

9am training starts
9:01am getting the message on "do your best to mimic Mima Ito and you are serving the country with pride"

fast forward nights out,
Zhang Rui - I had a great day pretending to be Mima Ito, and when I help the "stars" win gold, I will have no credits.
oh well, I'm getting paid for it, and getting dozens of cooks feeding me.

good night.
Not far off actually
 
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It's okay if you make up your own definition of a clone after I have provided mine and decide to take offense at your own definition. I would tell you to grow up but it won't make a difference. Go clone yourself.
Simply stop arguing with someone obviously from another world that is living in his own world and believes nothing else.
 
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Or you think somehow the Japanese, Koreans and other teams do not have similar arrangements?
JNT has certainly copied the practice, like 徳田明梨/TOKUDA Akari that sparred with Ito exclusively as well as Yoshimura Maharu and HAMADA Kazuki at WTTC 2024 or Idesawa at Paris 2024. Similarly and even earlier for KNT, they recruited former CNT players as sparring partners that eventually became their national team members (1, 2).

Yoshimura Kazuhiro, the younger brother of Yoshimura Maharu and brother-in-law of Kihara, made a guest appearance along with Miwa in the episode of Table Tennis Japan that aired on 2024/8/24. Along with 坪井勇磨/TSUBOI Yuma, they served as the exclusive sparring partners of Hirano ahead of and during Paris 2024, doing whatever drills at her request. Ito also recruited at least 2 male players to serve as sparring partners ahead of Tokyo 2020.

ITTF世界卓球選手権釜山大会(団体戦)
https://jtta.or.jp/tour/11136
スパーリングパートナー
吉村 真晴(TEAM MAHARU)
濵田 一輝(早稲田大学)
長﨑 美柚(木下グループ)
井  絢乃(中国電力)

母体スタッフ
岡  雄介(日本生命)
金  恵美(日本生命)
左  俊斉(日本生命)
早田 康恵(個人)
伊藤美乃り(スターツ)
益子さゆり(ELJ)
徳田 明梨(関西大学)
張   成(Athlete Solution)
張本  宇(仙台ジュニア)
龐   斌(木下グループ)
薛  云超(木下グループ)
Sparring partners
YOSHIMURA Maharu (TEAM MAHARU)
HAMADA Kazuki (Waseda University)
NAGASAKI Miyu (Kinoshita Group)
I Ayano (Chugoku Electric Power)

Parent staff
OKA Yusuke (Nippon Life Insurance)
JIN Huimei/KIN Hoimei (Nippon Life Insurance)
ZUO Junqi (Nippon Life Insurance)
HAYATA Yasue (Individual)
ITO Minori (Starts)
MASHIKO Sayuri (ELJ)
TOKUDA Akari (Kansai University)
ZHANG Cheng (Athlete Solution)
HARIMOTO Yu/Zhang Yu (Sendai Junior)
PANG Bin (Kinoshita Group)
XUE Yunchao (Kinoshita Group)

第33回オリンピック競技大会(2024/パリ)
https://jtta.or.jp/tour/25524
スパーリングパートナー
金   博(日本卓球協会)
吉村 真晴(SCOグループ)
濵田 一輝(早稲田大学)
森薗 政崇(BOBSON)
木造 勇人(関西卓球アカデミー)
出澤 杏佳(専修大学)

母体スタッフ
岡  雄介(日本生命)
金  恵美(個人)
左  俊斉(個人)
早田 康恵(個人)
沼澤  俊(個人)
中澤  鋭(木下グループ)
張本  凌(張本仙台ジュニア)
吉村 和弘(ケアリッツ・アンド・パートナーズ)
坪井 勇磨(FPC)
Sparring Partners
JIN Bo? (Japan Table Tennis Association)
YOSHIMURA Maharu (SCO Group)
HAMADA Kazuki (Waseda University)
MORIZONO Masataka (BOBSON)
KIZUKURI Yuto (Kansai Table Tennis Academy)
IDEZAWA Kyoka (Senshu University)

Parent Staff
OKA Yusuke (Nippon Life Insurance)
JIN Huimei/KIN Hoimei (Individual)
ZUO Junqi (Individual)
HAYATA Yasue (Individual)
NUMAZAWA Shun (Individual)
NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui (Kinoshita Group)
HARIMOTO Ryo/Zhang Ling (Harimoto Sendai Junior)
YOSHIMURA Kazuhiro (Careritz & Partners)
TSUBOI Yuma (FPC)

And the Japanese media certainly have their share of stereotypes, opting to refer to CNT's sparring partners as コピー選手/copy players.

平野美宇の“コピー選手”が“本家超え” 中国16歳が下剋上V「似てるところある」
(Hirano Miu's "copy player" surpasses the original: 16-year-old from China rises to victory, "There are similarities")
https://the-ans.jp/news/5300/

なぜ中国は卓球が強いのか?<Vol2.邱建新> (Why is China so good at table tennis? <Vol.2. Qiu Jianxin>)
https://rallys.online/person/player-voice/china02/
コピー選手は本当にいるのか?

ーー中国は、負けた後に特別な対策をしているのでしょうか?
邱:
それはあまり無い。ただ単純に練習量が多くて、練習の質が高いから強くなるだけ。わざわざ張本を倒すためだけの練習はしない。もちろん試合前は相手のビデオを見て作戦を立てたりはします。

ーー対策用のコピー選手を作るという話も良く聞きます。
邱:
それは良く言われるし、昔はあった。でも今は、特に男子は殆どない。もしコピー智和になれたら、その選手は世界選手権代表になれるよ(笑)

女子の練習相手だったら、男子のコピー選手を作れるかもしれない。コピー美誠とかね。

でも男子のトップ選手のコピーは難しい。例えば水谷のコピー選手いますか?林高遠?王楚欽(ワンチューチン)?

ーー確かに全然違いますね(笑)。

邱:(水谷)隼のサーブは真似できない。智和のバックを中国人が真似できたら、その選手は練習相手じゃなくて絶対ナショナルチームで試合出てる。
Are there really copy players?

--Does China take any special measures after losing?
Qiu:
Not really. They simply get stronger because they practice more and the quality of their practice is high. They don't practice just to beat Harimoto. Of course, they watch videos of their opponents and make strategies before the match.

--I often hear about the creation of copy players as countermeasures.
Qiu:
That's often said, and it used to be the case in the past. But now, especially with the men, it's rare. If a player could copy Tomokazu, that player could become a representative for the WTTC (laughs). If it's a female training partner, you might be able to create a male copy of the player, like a Mima Copy. But it's hard to copy a top man. For example, is there a copy player for Mizutani? Lin Gaoyuan? Wang Chuqin?

--It's true, they're completely different (laughs).
Qiu:
(Mizutani) Jun's serve is impossible to imitate. If a Chinese player could imitate Tomokazu's backhand, he would definitely be playing for the national team, not just a practice partner.
 

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Hey, can we have a thread for whatever Japan thing is starting today, please. Zenihon WhateverTF it is. Otherwise nothing happening until Singapore in two weeks.
 
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Hey, can we have a thread for whatever Japan thing is starting today, please. Zenihon WhateverTF it is. Otherwise nothing happening until Singapore in two weeks.
You can open a thread, just like anyone else can. I suspect pongfugrasshopper or zeio or driversbeat will open one at some point.
 
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Hey, can we have a thread for whatever Japan thing is starting today, please. Zenihon WhateverTF it is. Otherwise nothing happening until Singapore in two weeks.
There is too little at stake for this edition (other than Hayata's quota for WTTC 2025, which she can still qualify as the highest-ranked JNT player unless someone not already qualified like Kihara/Nagasaki/Sato/Hashimoto et. al wins), so feel free to start one or just use the Ito one.
 
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JNT has certainly copied the practice, like 徳田明梨/TOKUDA Akari that sparred with Ito exclusively as well as Yoshimura Maharu and HAMADA Kazuki at WTTC 2024 or Idesawa at Paris 2024. Similarly and even earlier for KNT, they recruited former CNT players as sparring partners that eventually became their national team members (1, 2).

Yoshimura Kazuhiro, the younger brother of Yoshimura Maharu and brother-in-law of Kihara, made a guest appearance along with Miwa in the episode of Table Tennis Japan that aired on 2024/8/24. Along with 坪井勇磨/TSUBOI Yuma, they served as the exclusive sparring partners of Hirano ahead of and during Paris 2024, doing whatever drills at her request. Ito also recruited at least 2 male players to serve as sparring partners ahead of Tokyo 2020.

ITTF世界卓球選手権釜山大会(団体戦)
https://jtta.or.jp/tour/11136

Sparring partners
YOSHIMURA Maharu (TEAM MAHARU)
HAMADA Kazuki (Waseda University)
NAGASAKI Miyu (Kinoshita Group)
I Ayano (Chugoku Electric Power)

Parent staff
OKA Yusuke (Nippon Life Insurance)
JIN Huimei/KIN Hoimei (Nippon Life Insurance)
ZUO Junqi (Nippon Life Insurance)
HAYATA Yasue (Individual)
ITO Minori (Starts)
MASHIKO Sayuri (ELJ)
TOKUDA Akari (Kansai University)
ZHANG Cheng (Athlete Solution)
HARIMOTO Yu/Zhang Yu (Sendai Junior)
PANG Bin (Kinoshita Group)
XUE Yunchao (Kinoshita Group)

第33回オリンピック競技大会(2024/パリ)
https://jtta.or.jp/tour/25524

Sparring Partners
JIN Bo? (Japan Table Tennis Association)
YOSHIMURA Maharu (SCO Group)
HAMADA Kazuki (Waseda University)
MORIZONO Masataka (BOBSON)
KIZUKURI Yuto (Kansai Table Tennis Academy)
IDEZAWA Kyoka (Senshu University)

Parent Staff
OKA Yusuke (Nippon Life Insurance)
JIN Huimei/KIN Hoimei (Individual)
ZUO Junqi (Individual)
HAYATA Yasue (Individual)
NUMAZAWA Shun (Individual)
NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui (Kinoshita Group)
HARIMOTO Ryo/Zhang Ling (Harimoto Sendai Junior)
YOSHIMURA Kazuhiro (Careritz & Partners)
TSUBOI Yuma (FPC)

And the Japanese media certainly have their share of stereotypes, opting to refer to CNT's sparring partners as コピー選手/copy players.

平野美宇の“コピー選手”が“本家超え” 中国16歳が下剋上V「似てるところある」
(Hirano Miu's "copy player" surpasses the original: 16-year-old from China rises to victory, "There are similarities")
https://the-ans.jp/news/5300/

なぜ中国は卓球が強いのか?<Vol2.邱建新> (Why is China so good at table tennis? <Vol.2. Qiu Jianxin>)
https://rallys.online/person/player-voice/china02/

Are there really copy players?

--Does China take any special measures after losing?
Qiu:
Not really. They simply get stronger because they practice more and the quality of their practice is high. They don't practice just to beat Harimoto. Of course, they watch videos of their opponents and make strategies before the match.

--I often hear about the creation of copy players as countermeasures.
Qiu:
That's often said, and it used to be the case in the past. But now, especially with the men, it's rare. If a player could copy Tomokazu, that player could become a representative for the WTTC (laughs). If it's a female training partner, you might be able to create a male copy of the player, like a Mima Copy. But it's hard to copy a top man. For example, is there a copy player for Mizutani? Lin Gaoyuan? Wang Chuqin?

--It's true, they're completely different (laughs).
Qiu:
(Mizutani) Jun's serve is impossible to imitate. If a Chinese player could imitate Tomokazu's backhand, he would definitely be playing for the national team, not just a practice partner.
"It used to be the case in the past, but now, especially with the men, it's rare."

Thanks.
 
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"It used to be the case in the past, but now, especially with the men, it's rare."

Thanks.
And in case it's not obvious, the interviewee is 邱建新/Qiu Jianxin, the father of 邱梁/Qiu Liang (older brother) and 邱黨/Qiu Dang.
 
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And in case it's not obvious, the interviewee is 邱建新/Qiu Jianxin, the father of 邱梁/Qiu Liang (older brother) and 邱黨/Qiu Dang.
I knew who he was, thank you for your ever valuable contribution. He was still coaching top level Japanese players last year, and he's tightly in the mix and in the know of both teams even more than we all can talk about here.

One for future rows here......
 
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--I often hear about the creation of copy players as countermeasures.
Qiu:
That's often said, and it used to be the case in the past. But now, especially with the men, it's rare. If a player could copy Tomokazu, that player could become a representative for the WTTC (laughs). If it's a female training partner, you might be able to create a male copy of the player, like a Mima Copy. But it's hard to copy a top man. For example, is there a copy player for Mizutani? Lin Gaoyuan? Wang Chuqin?

--It's true, they're completely different (laughs).
Qiu:
(Mizutani) Jun's serve is impossible to imitate. If a Chinese player could imitate Tomokazu's backhand, he would definitely be playing for the national team, not just a practice partner.
How do we reconcile this Qiu Jianxin quote with Zhang Rui's recent interview linked above where she states clearly that she was in fact tasked to be a Mima Ito imitator and served the main purpose of providing this practice to main team players at the time considered susceptible to losing?

I read this quote as being very much in line with what has been said by some thus far. Rare does not mean non-existent. Clone players are not necessarily "created" as QJX (and I) said but when they already exist as high level players with a certain skillset they are used to the benefit of the main players on the national team.

Seems like it was a loaded question by asking about the "creation" of copy players instead of the existence of copy players. And thus elicited a certain answer.

Nobody was ever saying that they recreate a Harimoto at the exact strength of the Harimoto but they certainly can and do utilize certain people to the effect of being 90% of an Ito/Hirano/Hayata etc.

Mizutani's serve is not impossible to imitate, nor is Tomokazu's backhand. But they are, perhaps, impossible to replicate.
 
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How do we reconcile this Qiu Jianxin quote with Zhang Rui's recent interview linked above where she states clearly that she was in fact tasked to be a Mima Ito imitator and served the main purpose of providing this practice to main team players at the time considered susceptible to losing?

I read this quote as being very much in line with what has been said by some thus far. Rare does not mean non-existent. Clone players are not necessarily "created" as QJX (and I) said but when they already exist as high level players with a certain skillset they are used to the benefit of the main players on the national team.

Seems like it was a loaded question by asking about the "creation" of copy players instead of the existence of copy players. And thus elicited a certain answer.

Nobody was ever saying that they recreate a Harimoto at the exact strength of the Harimoto but they certainly can and do utilize certain people to the effect of being 90% of an Ito/Hirano/Hayata etc.

Mizutani's serve is not impossible to imitate, nor is Tomokazu's backhand. But they are, perhaps, impossible to replicate.

Well he did say it wa rarer amongst the men. But the truth is that Qiu admitted juat about everything we needed for my definition of clone. All you need is a high level player to study how another high level player plays and simulate them in practice. Most countries don't have the resources to simulate this but because lots of Chinese players travel to other countries now, they can be hired as training partners and coaches so the situation is not as bad as it used to be. But being able to get players to dedicate a lot of their time to supporting the better players is something only a few national teams can afford. That Japan is trying is cool, but their culture just doesn't get close to encouraging the same level of team spirit.

Why is Xu Fei in Paris? Oh, because he is one of the best players on the team and they need him to be a training partner for someone. It has absolutely nothing to do with his being a penholder when there are two other top penholders they could face in Paris. Absolutely nothing I tell you.
 
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I knew who he was, thank you for your ever valuable contribution. He was still coaching top level Japanese players last year, and he's tightly in the mix and in the know of both teams even more than we all can talk about here.

One for future rows here, and the mouth breathing idealists.

"and the mouth breathing idealists."

You can't make comments like this. Directly calling people names like this is not going to be tolerated.
 
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"and the mouth breathing idealists."

You can't make comments like this. Directly calling people names like this is not going to be tolerated.
That's cool with me, I can refrain.
I just hope you'd gone through all the other comments too where I was name called or a group of people are name called/ ascribed pretty bad attributes and you'd caution them too.
I just made a request to you on the the "Ito: I don't think I'd continue playing for the next 4 years", but predictably you haven't replied to it.
 
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That's cool with me, I can refrain.
I just hope you'd gone through all the other comments too where I was name called or a group of people are name called/ ascribed pretty bad attributes and you'd caution them too.
I just made a request to you on the the "Ito: I don't think I'd continue playing for the next 4 years", but predictably you haven't replied to it.

Wait, are you talking about this post:

The projection and the blatant racism in some of these comments are off the charts. How a couple of comments from internet shitposters are used to denigrate a large group and ascribe untold and baseless accusations to them is worrisome. There's millions of them who are normal and even a couple of them went against the "status quo" last week which provoked ire from a doubles team. Why is this act not celebrated from this person, Why is every misdemeanor some grand nefarious plan?
I'm surprised the moderators are doing nothing about it, but it appears that while yes, the person in question has done "a lot" for table tennis, the deference that his/her work has inspired in the moderators has completely coloured their view from the insane prejudice he harbors that's bordering on vile disgust at this point. The same defaulter also demands respect from others.

I've been debating how to tell you that leveling accusations like that without being specific is kind of messed up.

But you should know that I am not here to play policeman with you guys. You guys should learn how to deal with shit for yourself. I try not to interfere in the forum until people are making specific insults at people like calling someone or a group "mouth breathers".

And if you are talking about calling people clones as an insult, I think you need to look at the word in context. The people who are using the term and explaining they mean someone who is attempting to copy another top player's style to give players practice against a similar style as that top player.....I don't think that is meant as an insult. But there is no question that you meant "mouth breather" as an insult.

So, just because you don't like a term, but the person who is using the term does not mean the negative connotations of that term that you are ascribing and interpreting, IF THEY DON'T INTEND THAT INSULT, and you are reading it anyway, that goes to your interpretation, not their actual intended meaning.
 
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Wait, are you talking about this post:



I've been debating how to tell you that leveling accusations like that without being specific is kind of messed up.

But you should know that I am not here to play policeman with you guys. You guys should learn how to deal with shit for yourself. I try not to interfere in the forum until people are making specific insults at people like calling someone or a group "mouth breathers".

And if you are talking about calling people clones as an insult, I think you need to look at the word in context. The people who are using the term and explaining they mean someone who is attempting to copy another top player's style to give players practice against a similar style as that top player.....I don't think that is meant as an insult. But there is no question that you meant "mouth breather" as an insult.

So, just because you don't like a term, but the person who is using the term does not mean the negative connotations of that term that you are ascribing and interpreting, IF THEY DON'T INTEND THAT INSULT, and you are reading it anyway, that goes to your interpretation, not their actual intended meaning.
Is someone calling me stupid grounds for warning them to stop or not ?
 
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How do we reconcile this Qiu Jianxin quote with Zhang Rui's recent interview linked above where she states clearly that she was in fact tasked to be a Mima Ito imitator and served the main purpose of providing this practice to main team players at the time considered susceptible to losing?

I read this quote as being very much in line with what has been said by some thus far. Rare does not mean non-existent. Clone players are not necessarily "created" as QJX (and I) said but when they already exist as high level players with a certain skillset they are used to the benefit of the main players on the national team.

Seems like it was a loaded question by asking about the "creation" of copy players instead of the existence of copy players. And thus elicited a certain answer.

Nobody was ever saying that they recreate a Harimoto at the exact strength of the Harimoto but they certainly can and do utilize certain people to the effect of being 90% of an Ito/Hirano/Hayata etc.

Mizutani's serve is not impossible to imitate, nor is Tomokazu's backhand. But they are, perhaps, impossible to replicate.
There has been clone players so good, that they beat core players, but they don't replace core players.
This is CNT. Its not about winning or loosing, but about what your role is and if you are a core player, you need to mess up a lot, otherwise you are invincible (look at LGY).
For clone players, your job is simple, you are there to help the core players. HZJ , HLM are all great players, and can rank top 10 or 15 in the world, but they will never be a core player. It is not in the interest of CNT to put pips as core players, it is in their culture that pips are always supporting roles.

so when I hear about, oh, if clones beat cores and will replace them, I am very spectacle that it will happen.
 
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And if you are talking about calling people clones as an insult, I think you need to look at the word in context. The people who are using the term and explaining they mean someone who is attempting to copy another top player's style to give players practice against a similar style as that top player.....I don't think that is meant as an insult. But there is no question that you meant "mouth breather" as an insult.

i'm sure his English in the understanding of the term is better than my Chinglish

sounds more to me that he has a temper and doesn't like it that we still go on about CNT having clones/imitation players, because he says their don't.
Well, just maybe, he is ert of pingsunday, the guy who has all the secrets of CNT... haha
 
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