ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup Macao 2025, 4/14-20

[longle]

I think the unreturnable 1st attack does happen - if the opponent doesn't read the serve properly, and in this level, it is relatively rare. So mostly he (or anyone) expects it will be returned. The step-back is part of the motion...

For me the difference was in 2 points: the power, and the relentlessness. He has the power which physically is not present in his opponents mostly. And he was relentlessly using. I will use it I will use it I will use it. I don't care if I miss, if I don't use it, I loose... ;-) Both sides... Cheers ;-)



Will see. I think his defense is good, but you probably think others have even better defense...

there is basically 2 types of attacking players:

- machine gun: attack relentless but moderate power - like Kong Linghiu, Zhang Jike

- cannon: finding opportunity to unleash 1 big attack - like Wang Liqin, Ma Lin

Hugo is a machine cannon

 

[banbekas]

Shaky is definitely the wrong word. The match was close yes, but the win was definitely not shaky, Hugo won many patterns that were not beyond him. It was at the very least a match between equals and arguably since Hugo won the last 3 games, he would have the advantage in the rematch as he executed the last strategy that worked .

It was shaky in the sense it was not as dominant as the win he had before and after. I know it's harsh of me but him being down 3-1 before his second wind is why I called it a shaky win. A win is a win, but I'd still pick WCQ over Hugo given the showing. I'd pick Hugo over LSD and Harimoto now tho.

You really think Kid Harimoto hit as hard as FZD and Prime ZJK? Please don't single out loose ball, even someone as weak as me would hit a loose ball hard.

 

[banbekas]

No I didnt say that. Please read carefully before commenting.

I talked about hard hitters and yes, harimoto hit the ball hard, harder than ma long could handle.

If it's something ML couldn't handle, that'd be something even stronger than prime ZJK, FZD, and WLQ. How do you explain that?

 

[NetProphet]

ma long always had problems against hard hitters.

ZJK beat him because he hit too hard, harimoto did the same, lee sang su , fan zhendong etc etc

Ma Long has an amazing record against the 4 players you listed so I'm not sure 'always had problems' is correct description cos my memory says more often than not he hammered those players.
ZJK gave everyone problems of course, outright excellence, but Ma Long didn't have much difficulty with him after 2014 anyway.
But is the reason for the difficult days really because they hit hard???
LSS ok, hard but he's beaten old ML once?
But Harimoto was speed for me and ZJK and FZD was more outright TT brilliance than just hitting hard no?

Also ma long gambled

Ma Long had the ability to execute other approaches in the game. LGY did not. No gamble, just another thing he knew could work.

against lin gaoyuan because he was outplayed, that game was more like lin gaoyuan totally lost his composure, rather than ma long finding a super smart tactic to beat him

I actually saw it as a very smart tactic.
To change what had worked in probably 15 previous meetings may seem obvious at 0-3 but how many can have the clarity of thought to think differently, know what to do and be able to execute it?
I do think you're downplaying this a bit and not enough credit going to ML here.
LGY did capitulate because once he was asked to do something different he couldn't.
Personally I thought it was brilliant and MLs superiority came through plenty as he found opportunity after opportunity to put LGY away.

Watch the game again, in the first 3 sets lin gaoyuan borrows power from ma long shots and counters them

Agreed

and at 3-0 ma long simply dropped his tempo a bit, and let lin gaoyuan miss his shots instead. It's not like he cornered lin with his superiority, lin simply didnt adapt to a rather normal and predictable change.

He didn't just wait for LGY to miss, he also blocked him to force weaker shots and then picked him off with brilliant couterloops taking advantage of LGY being out of position.
To change against a player he had always beaten (LGY is one for 15 or something) that's the brilliance to me. 🤷🏻

In fact I was quite surprised that malong didnt thhought of that tactic earlier in the game

On the face of it there would be no reason for ML to really think about a tactical change against a player he always beats.
After 2 close sets the 3rd was an easy one for LGY which prompted the change.
And he made that change and won from 0-3.
Hard to see how this can be downplayed so much

 

[zeio]

there is basically 2 types of attacking players:

- machine gun: attack relentless but moderate power - like Kong Linghiu, Zhang Jike

- cannon: finding opportunity to unleash 1 big attack - like Wang Liqin, Ma Lin

Hugo is a machine cannon

TIL ZJK is machine gun...

Calderano would have achieved Grand Slam already if he were both.

 

[blahness]

TIL ZJK is machine gun...

Calderano would have achieved Grand Slam already if he were both.

Yeah by that definition he is definitely a cannon and nowhere even near being a machine gun.

 

[NextLevel]

It was shaky in the sense it was not as dominant as the win he had before and after. I know it's harsh of me but him being down 3-1 before his second wind is why I called it a shaky win. A win is a win, but I'd still pick WCQ over Hugo given the showing. I'd pick Hugo over LSD and Harimoto now tho.

You really think Kid Harimoto hit as hard as FZD and Prime ZJK? Please don't single out loose ball, even someone as weak as me would hit a loose ball hard.

A best of seven is a best of seven for a reason. WCQ won 67 points, Hugo 66. There is nothing about the match that says that we should credit the guy who took the lead as the better player. Fan Zhendong has come back from 0-3 vs Boll before. Duda also pushed WCQ. In any case your opinion is yours. To me what was revealed was how well Hugo was playing. You don't come back against those guys unless you are playing well, they are professional front runners.

If a 14 year old can hit a loose ball past a top level professional, I think it says a lot. You would struggle to hit the loose ball past Ma Long. Go watch the video of the Japan Open matches that Ma Long and Zhang Jike lost to the kid and tell me that that is normal power.

Again we can agree to disagree on this.

 

[banbekas]

A best of seven is a best of seven for a reason. WCQ won 67 points, Hugo 66. There is nothing about the match that says that we should credit the guy who took the lead as the better player. Fan Zhendong has come back from 0-3 vs Boll before. Duda also pushed WCQ. In any case your opinion is yours. To me what was revealed was how well Hugo was playing. You don't come back against those guys unless you are playing well, they are professional front runners.

If a 14 year old can hit a loose ball past a top level professional, I think it says a lot. You would struggle to hit the loose ball past Ma Long. Go watch the video of the Japan Open matches that Ma Long and Zhang Jike lost to the kid and tell me that that is normal power.

Again we can agree to disagree on this.

You could have said you agreed I could get a ball past ML at least once. lol

 

[Persistence TT]

If it's something ML couldn't handle, that'd be something even stronger than prime ZJK, FZD, and WLQ. How do you explain that?

You are insisting on replying on something that was not mentioned. I said ma long had problems, not that he CANT WIN against zjk, fzd , harimoto, lee sang su etc etc

He also had problems against wang hao, that doesnt mean that he couldnt beat wang hao. Who was not a hard hitter. He also had problems against koki niwa in their first encounters, do I really need to tell you how to read and comprehend a written text?

All I am saying is that it wouldnt be so easy as you guys think it would be. Ma long was expected to win the world championship since 2009 because most people were amazed by his flashy forehand and really clever tactics. me being one of them. Flashy doesnt win you titles though

He won it after 4 attempts. Do you get my point now?

 

[Persistence TT]

Ma Long has an amazing record against the 4 players you listed so I'm not sure 'always had problems' is correct description cos my memory says more often than not he hammered those players.
ZJK gave everyone problems of course, outright excellence, but Ma Long didn't have much difficulty with him after 2014 anyway.
But is the reason for the difficult days really because they hit hard???
LSS ok, hard but he's beaten old ML once?
But Harimoto was speed for me and ZJK and FZD was more outright TT brilliance than just hitting hard no?

Ma Long had the ability to execute other approaches in the game. LGY did not. No gamble, just another thing he knew could work.

I actually saw it as a very smart tactic.
To change what had worked in probably 15 previous meetings may seem obvious at 0-3 but how many can have the clarity of thought to think differently, know what to do and be able to execute it?
I do think you're downplaying this a bit and not enough credit going to ML here.
LGY did capitulate because once he was asked to do something different he couldn't.
Personally I thought it was brilliant and MLs superiority came through plenty as he found opportunity after opportunity to put LGY away.

Agreed

He didn't just wait for LGY to miss, he also blocked him to force weaker shots and then picked him off with brilliant couterloops taking advantage of LGY being out of position.
To change against a player he had always beaten (LGY is one for 15 or something) that's the brilliance to me. 🤷🏻


On the face of it there would be no reason for ML to really think about a tactical change against a player he always beats.
After 2 close sets the 3rd was an easy one for LGY which prompted the change.
And he made that change and won from 0-3.
Hard to see how this can be downplayed so much

please get off the bandwagon. Dont be so biased.

What is next? Ma long taught LGY how to hold the paddle? I understand him being your favorite, but you also have to understand that malong is not playing alone.

So if he is so good , why was he losing 3-0 in the first place?

Anyway, the conversation is pointless cause you fail to observe , things that are more than obvious

 

[NextLevel]

You could have said you agreed I could get a ball past ML at least once. lol

Once maybe. But those guys play too fast and almost everything you do happens in slow motion to them. If you fake them without power, their athleticism takes over. And they usually play at a distance where all they have to do is touch the ball and it will come back. Against their peers, they feel modest pressure because of the speed of the game. Against me, they will just try to wait me out and let their ball quality and consistency do the job without really working that hard. The more you give them, the more quality tends to come back.

 

[banbekas]

You are insisting on replying on something that was not mentioned. I said ma long had problems, not that he CANT WIN against zjk, fzd , harimoto, lee sang su etc etc

He also had problems against wang hao, that doesnt mean that he couldnt beat wang hao. Who was not a hard hitter. He also had problems against koki niwa in their first encounters, do I really need to tell you how to read and comprehend a written text?

All I am saying is that it wouldnt be so easy as you guys think it would be. Ma long was expected to win the world championship since 2009 because most people were amazed by his flashy forehand and really clever tactics. me being one of them. Flashy doesnt win you titles though

He won it after 4 attempts. Do you get my point now?

"ma long always had problems against hard hitters. ZJK beat him because he hit too hard, harimoto did the same, lee sang su , fan zhendong etc etc "

That is what you said. Kidmoto hit as hard as a physical specimen like prime ZJK and FZD is just no. I don't really care about the other points that you made because I never insinuated that it would be a walk in the park for ML against Hugo today despite his pristine records against him. Thank you for your offer to teach me how to read and comprehend a text, but I'll have to respectfully refuse your offer.

 

[Persistence TT]

"ma long always had problems against hard hitters. ZJK beat him because he hit too hard, harimoto did the same, lee sang su , fan zhendong etc etc "

That is what you said. I don't really care about the other points that you made because I never think it would be a walk in the park for ML against Hugo despite is pristine record against him. Thank you for your offer to teach me how to read and comprehend a text. Kidmoto hit as hard as a physical specimen prime ZJK and FZD is just crazy.

just watch the videos and then come back and repeat " harimoto is not a hard hitter"

p.s. lets not forget that he beat zjk also (injured but still zjk was a powerhouse even with injuries) and fan zhendong

p.s.2 you are so amusing, you STILL reply on something that I NEVER said, and you also quote me for it.

 

[banbekas]

just watch the videos and then come back and repeat " harimoto is not a hard hitter"

p.s. lets not forget that he beat zjk also (injured but still zjk was a powerhouse even with injuries) and fan zhendong

p.s.2 you are so amusing, you STILL reply on something that I NEVER said, and you also quote me for it.

Kidmoto was not a hard hitter. There, I repeat it. Even his coach literally said his FH was weak as heck. He was borrowing force much like ML. Unlike Hugo and ZJK. I can agree he hit loose ball hard but hard hitter like Hugo he wasn't. I'll just agree to disagree with you.

ma long always had problems against hard hitters.

ZJK beat him because he hit too hard, harimoto did the same, lee sang su , fan zhendong etc etc

Is this not you? I'm sorry, my eyes must not be working as well as they used to. I'll bow out of this discussion because I'm in the wrong here.

 

[Persistence TT]

Kidmoto was not a hard hitter. There, I repeat it. Even his coach literally said his FH was weak as heck. He was borrowing force much like ML. Unlike Hugo and ZJK. I can agree he hit loose ball hard but hard hitter like Hugo he wasn't. I'll just agree to disagree with you.



Is this not you? I'm sorry, my eyes must not be working as well as they used to. I'll bow out of this discussion because I'm in the wrong here.

Yes and the earth is flat.

 

[Robin0910]

Though according to his comment Xu Xin had a relatively high chance to become a grand slam champion but he never dominated as much as Zhang Jike, Ma Long and Fan Zhendong.

 

[Persistence TT]

Kidmoto was not a hard hitter. There, I repeat it. Even his coach literally said his FH was weak as heck. He was borrowing force much like ML. Unlike Hugo and ZJK. I can agree he hit loose ball hard but hard hitter like Hugo he wasn't. I'll just agree to disagree with you.



Is this not you? I'm sorry, my eyes must not be working as well as they used to. I'll bow out of this discussion because I'm in the wrong here.

ok since you dont understand english I will help you
"harimoto did the same" --> same = hit hard, not as hard as zhang jike. just hard.

when person A is walking up the stairs and I say , "person B did the same"

I didnt mean he did it on the same tempo,speed and explosiveness. I just said he walked up the stairs

Do you get it now? I doubt it.

 

[NetProphet]

please get off the bandwagon. Dont be so biased.

There's no bandwagon. I never said ML would beat Hugo. Someone else said that.

What is next? Ma long taught LGY how to hold the paddle?

Ridiculous sarcasm.
But I'm sure ML has taught LGY plenty of you bother to think about it.

I understand him being your favorite,

He's not my favorite

but you also have to understand that malong is not playing alone.

Yeah I'm pretty sure he played alone in that final. There was no coach. Maybe you need to watch the match again?

So if he is so good , why was he losing 3-0 in the first place?

😂😂😂
Circular reference much.
He's not getting credit for coming from 3-down. Just flak for going down 0-3.
Hugo was rubbish last week, 1-3 down to WCQ, absolutely awful he was.

Anyway, the conversation is pointless cause you fail to observe , things that are more than obvious

You're just another person in here who can't handle someone with a different opinion without turning into an a-hole.
You put your thoughts forward but can't handle when someone else does the same and it's different?
For the record I never said you were wrong, just that I had a different take.

But we agree on one thing, this conversation is pointless but that's only because you can't handle discussion where someone thinks differently.
If you think I'm wrong that's fine but you don't have to be an absolute dick.

 

[Persistence TT]

There's no bandwagon. I never said ML would beat Hugo. Someone else said that.

Ridiculous sarcasm.
But I'm sure ML has taught LGY plenty of you bother to think about it.

He's not my favorite

Yeah I'm pretty sure he played alone in that final. There was no coach. Maybe you need to watch the match again?

😂😂😂
Circular reference much.
He's not getting credit for coming from 3-down. Just flak for going down 0-3.
Hugo was rubbish last week, 1-3 down to WCQ, absolutely awful he was.

You're just another person in here who can't handle someone with a different opinion without turning into an a-hole.
You put your thoughts forward but can't handle when someone else does the same and it's different?
For the record I never said you were wrong, just that I had a different take.

But we agree on one thing, this conversation is pointless but that's only because you can't handle discussion where someone thinks differently.
If you think I'm wrong that's fine but you don't have to be an absolute dick.

how old are you, 12?

Hahahahah did you really said that he played alone in the final with no coach? I am wasting my time here. I should have charged both of you for teaching you basic principles of english and table tennis

 

[NetProphet]

how old are you, 12?

Hahahahah did you really said that he played alone in the final with no coach? I am wasting my time here. I should have charged both of you for teaching you basic principles of english and table tennis

I think you are confused.
Come back when the drugs have worn off.
And then show me where the coaches are telling ML what to do in the a world Cup Macao 2024 Final V Lin Gaoyuan.
Or don't
Because you won't be able to and I'll happily ignore everything else you say from here.
Do watch the match again tho so you don't make more ridiculous statements about it should you ever feel to talk about it in the future 👍