WTT Champions Japan 2025 - 7-11 Aug 2025

[Tony's Table Tennis]

That's what I thought. All talk, but can't back it up.

Anybody else that actually stands behind their word want to take the deal?

that is why you are the less credible person on TTD today, worse than igor to be honest,
I will let others deal with your naiveness

 

[TensorBackhand]

I don't gamble and or do bets. This trait sure have no link to my position in table tennis.
My credibility lies in my knowledge, my connections, my networking, relationships and mutual trusts in the table tennis world.
You think credibility comes from taking win/loss bets, are you a kid?

If you haven't noticed, your credibility is very low in table tennis and all these people that are replying to you, are hoping to reduce your naiviness - they are actually trying to help you.

you know that KTT kid, he is a young kid and has a big heart. He sounds stubborn and misguided, but that is due to his age and his environment.
You on the other hand, a full grown adult, you are worse than KTT by many folds.
and I'm certain with some guidance, KTT will beat you straights with what ever 8 bats you have in your bag.

Its okay to be bad in table tennis, to not understand the sport, or to be a EJ and to be all over the show with multiple equipment in your bag, and have no direction of improvement or to master the game - not everyone is in it to become better in the sport (seems like you be idling for a few years and you just like exploring multiple bats, but your technique is terrible). But to act like you know a thing or two about world number 1 or 2 or 3 or, while you can't even do a forehand stroke.....common now. This is why there is a saying that internet fans all think they are the next national coach.

I wonder what is it in HT that irritates the heck out of you, to be "picking" on him for years?

His screams irritates the heck out of me,but after the match, he is one of the most polite and well mannered professional that I know. His table tennis ability, since a young age (while he is still young today) is considered a case study for many coaches to aim for. He is a table tennis role model for me and I don't like him. I like his table tennis journey and there is a lot of positive to learn from (no players is without flaws)

so excuse my meanful post, but it is the truth, since you trying to challenge my credibility in table tennis - what a joke, lol.
but granted, you have the guts to share your videos and be honest about your challenges and difficulties in the sport, so I give you credit for that. if only zeio and shine have the guts to share their videos too.

Btw, I don't dislike Harimoto.

I said, his match against FZD impressed me very much. He proved that on his good days, he is on the same level as the top Chinese players. So he is an elite level player on his good days.

To me, his match against FZD at the olympics is much more meaningful, because both of them played at an elite level.

To me, today's match against WCQ doesn't mean as much because WCQ was off his game. WCQ was missing bh flick after bh flick over and over. He never found his rhythm or confidence in the match. So, Harimoto did his job today and got the win. But his match with FZD was more meaningful to me.

 

[TensorBackhand]

that is why you are the less credible person on TTD today, worse than igor to be honest,
I will let others deal with your naiveness

Since I'm so naive, get one of your buddies to take the deal. So simple. Since i'm clearly wrong, just come claim the money. I will pay any of you $20 for each match Harimoto wins from WCQ.

 

[Metaxa]

just another great epic win against WCQ after the WTTTC 2022 and Youth Olympic teams final 2018. Who else did that ?

Twice in seven years! Let me be clear, indeed no one did that for him yet I think. As a non-Chinese, he and Calderano are the only two who can achieve something against WCQ. So all credit to these two gentlemen. Let's assume that the lost matches at the end of last year against Lind & Kallberg were rather flukes as WCQ was clearly in a slump then.

 

[Metaxa]

I think you can attribute the 3% to being surprised by the Harimoto changes in strategy and improvements in consistency - again per zeio, he admitted to actively trying to take away the Wang chiquita and say whatever you want, Harimoto was burned badly by it in Vegas but here, the Wang chiquita was notoriously on vacation.

And of course, like against Hugo, the CNT will go back to the drawing board and come up with countermeasures. But on this day, there was no doubt who the better player was, anyone attributing it to luck or WCQ missing is just refusing to accept that Harimoto played one of the best matches I have ever seen a player play today, both strategically and with rally quality. How many times have we seen Harimoto hit the quality of forehand topspins he hit from away from table that were so heavy it looked like Wang was the one playing them after they bounced? And when you compare that Chiquita serve kills in Vegas to today, does anyone believe that Wang mysteriously forgot how to do the chiquita? Maybe they will figure out how to read Harimoto's serve better, but today, he obviously was doing something that Wang could not pick up. That's the 3% right there. When Harimoto pushed Wang's serve badly, Wang became Wang again. It was clear as daylight.

And like against Hugo, Wang could come back with countermeasures that destroy Harimoto tomorrow. But today, Wang played badly because Harimoto played great table tennis.

WCQ's serve must somehow be harder for Tomo because I don't see any other player pushing back his serve so many times. But... it usually pays off for Tomo. I don't know off the top of my head how many times he has scored points with his forehand flip on service from WCQ but it must have been very few. So tactically, it was a very good match by the Tomo-team.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Twice in seven years! Let me be clear, indeed no one did that for him yet I think. As a non-Chinese, he and Calderano are the only two who can achieve something against WCQ. So all credit to these two gentlemen. Let's assume that the lost matches at the end of last year against Lind & Kallberg were rather flukes as WCQ was clearly in a slump then.

i think we also must note the mental pressure with WCQ against being the last man standing so many times.
It works most time, but eventually the pressure will have its toils on you.
just like how much pressure is on HT. these pressure is good, but also bad.

I always felt, eventually the pressure in mens tt (since so many, not just Hugo and HT) are now clear threats to the top 3 of China. and not to mention the top 3 of China have been on the loosing side quite often.

Other winners over WCQ between 2024-2025
Oh
Faraji
Truls
Jang

winners over LSD
HT (3 times)
Hugo
Felix
Alexis
Timo
Qiu

 

[zeio]

Why does anyone trying to find if ball/table/rubber etc was the cause of Harimoto's victory!

Every rule has exceptions, as the rule: "Chinese rule the TT world"

Butterfly/Togami:

 

[zeio]

I think you can attribute the 3% to being surprised by the Harimoto changes in strategy and improvements in consistency - again per zeio, he admitted to actively trying to take away the Wang chiquita and say whatever you want, Harimoto was burned badly by it in Vegas but here, the Wang chiquita was notoriously on vacation.

And of course, like against Hugo, the CNT will go back to the drawing board and come up with countermeasures. But on this day, there was no doubt who the better player was, anyone attributing it to luck or WCQ missing is just refusing to accept that Harimoto played one of the best matches I have ever seen a player play today, both strategically and with rally quality. How many times have we seen Harimoto hit the quality of forehand topspins he hit from away from table that were so heavy it looked like Wang was the one playing them after they bounced? And when you compare that Chiquita serve kills in Vegas to today, does anyone believe that Wang mysteriously forgot how to do the chiquita? Maybe they will figure out how to read Harimoto's serve better, but today, he obviously was doing something that Wang could not pick up. That's the 3% right there. When Harimoto pushed Wang's serve badly, Wang became Wang again. It was clear as daylight.

And like against Hugo, Wang could come back with countermeasures that destroy Harimoto tomorrow. But today, Wang played badly because Harimoto played great table tennis.

Oh, my bad. I should've been more specific in my post (was on mobile). It was Harimoto who sealed off his own chiquita from the start of the match until G6 in an attempt to extend the point and draw WCQ into the rally so that he could stand a better chance, and Harimoto was surprised himself it worked so well.

Coincidentally, I've touched on how to play WCQ from players' feedback.

 

[NextLevel]

Since I'm so naive, get one of your buddies to take the deal. So simple. Since i'm clearly wrong, just come claim the money. I will pay any of you $20 for each match Harimoto wins from WCQ.

That you are placing the odds at 50-50 for a World Champion vs a #4 player shows you really arent confident. Since the historical record is something on the order of 80-90% wins for Wang over Harimoto, you should really be offering $10 for every Wang win to something like $20 for evey Harimoto win if you were confident in the historic record. Or $20 to $30. Because the latter would still pay off handsomely if the historical record holds and the latter would actually entice people to bet.

Let's put it another way. Apply this bet to Fan vs Ma Long. Does it pay off and when? When Fan lost at the Tokyo Olympics to Ma Long, do you think it was because Ma Long was a vastly superior player? And would you have bet in that finals on Ma Long because he was a much better player than Fan?

Or even Wang vs Hugo - does anyone think Hugo didnt get better? Does anyone think Hugo didnt put play Wang during the World Cup? Yet would anyone bet on Hugo to beat Wang 50-50 as a betting person?

You really need to stop using bad arguments to support your position. Harimoto played a great match. No one knows whether what he did was sustainable. No one knows what adjustments CNT will come up with. But acting like Hugo or Tomo didn't play great matches is your prerogative. But if you want the rational bet I outlined above, let me know, I will think about it. The odds are definitely not 50-50. And no one has said that. But you seem unable to help yourself and show why you can't play tournament table tennis.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You really need to stop using bad arguments to support your position. Harimoto played a great match. No one knows whether what he did was sustainable.

based on the data I shared, between WCQ and LSD, HT beat them 4 times (the most by far) since 2024.
it is also during this time, tb writes off HT
and now HT wins, he has so much lame excuses.

 

[NextLevel]

who cares. Do you want to do the deal or not?
If you can't stand behind your word, you don't sound very credible.

You literally just watched Harimoto destroy WCQ. You spent half a thread arguing about how Harimoto was so good at forcing WCQ into error. You have ever advantage. I'm giving you the easiest offer you ever have, if you believe in the things you say. Harimoto's strategy was brilliant. His coaches figured out WCQ's weakness. Harimoto improved his forehand. Harimoto evolved his technique. Harimoto is still young and just entering his prime.

I just watched my guy get destroyed. He could be mentally destroyed after this. He could go into depression. He could never recover. I literally have nothing, except my belief in mathematics.

Take the deal.

Harimoto won 3 games, Wang adjusted and won 2, Harimoto won the sixth. That is hardly destruction. Harimoto out played Wang clearly on this day, but as we know table tennis about adjustments and we don't what each player and his team will come up with for the next matchup. The historical record in WTT events has this as Harimoto's first win ever. Why would anyone bet 50-50 on something that has happened once in eleven matches? That said you are confident that the historical trend is the norm right? If so 50-50 is not the way to bet. You sucker people into betting with something that attracts them as well. So let's make a bet on the next 5 Harimoto-Wang matches. I will bet that Tomo will win at least one of them so I am willing to put $50 down. If Wang wins all 5 and Tomo was lucky, you get the $50. If you are right that Tomo just got lucky (first time in 11 matches), then your $50 should be safe. Does this work? If Harimoto wins one of those matches then you owe me $50. This was a fluke so your $50 should be safe, right?

 

[NextLevel]

WCQ's serve must somehow be harder for Tomo because I don't see any other player pushing back his serve so many times. But... it usually pays off for Tomo. I don't know off the top of my head how many times he has scored points with his forehand flip on service from WCQ but it must have been very few. So tactically, it was a very good match by the Tomo-team.

I think in this match, the decision to push was deliberate but I also think that some of those pushes were against hidden serves.

 

[turbozed]

I seriously don't get what everybody is clamoring about. I don't like to argue. Let's just make it simple.

From now until 2028, I will pay you $20 for each game that Harimoto takes off of WCQ. You pay me $20 for each game that WCQ takes off of Harimoto.

Fair Deal? Any takers?

If you are so confident that Harimoto caused WCQ to play poorly, its easy money for you right?
I could also easily be wrong. But my opinion right now is that WCQ played a bad game, had a "bad shooting night", but will recover. Since you all are so confident that WCQ played his best and Harimoto's brilliant strategy forced WCQ into error, come claim your free money from me.

@ThePongCommenter
@NextLevel
@piligrim
@NetProphet

This is completely non-responsive to what people are arguing, which makes me think you aren't even trying to understand people's points.

The fact that Harimoto beat WCQ with his tactics and gameplay yesterday, doesn't mean he's more talented or will have a more successful career than WCQ. And it doesn't mean that WCQ will forever now be destined to lose to Harimoto. People are on your case because you're giving zero credit to Harimoto and saying WCQ only lost due to variance and poor form. Quite frankly, it's a silly and indefensible position.

Your 'proposition' now is a strawman argument. People can still think that Harimoto beat a WCQ in good form yesterday without committing to the idea that Harimoto will continue to do that in the future. WCQ and the entire CNT can go back and analyze what Harimoto was doing and come up with a formula for beating that strategy. This has been already mentioned already several times.

Do you really think that Olympic level athletes supported by the best coaches in the world don't actually come up with gameplans and strategies for specific opponents? Is the CNT braintrust really going to keep everything the same and say "well that was just unlucky but let's not figure out what happened or change anything because it was a fluke"?

 

[Shine]

Done!

Giddy for her.
I wonder what made her win this time, rage against the machine? KPI evolution, Forced to win?, Machinations of the coaches.

I'm sure stories are plenty.

 

[turbozed]

That you are placing the odds at 50-50 for a World Champion vs a #4 player shows you really arent confident. Since the historical record is something on the order of 80-90% wins for Wang over Harimoto, you should really be offering $10 for every Wang win to something like $20 for evey Harimoto win if you were confident in the historic record. Or $20 to $30. Because the latter would still pay off handsomely if the historical record holds and the latter would actually entice people to bet.

Let's put it another way. Apply this bet to Fan vs Ma Long. Does it pay off and when? When Fan lost at the Tokyo Olympics to Ma Long, do you think it was because Ma Long was a vastly superior player? And would you have bet in that finals on Ma Long because he was a much better player than Fan?

Or even Wang vs Hugo - does anyone think Hugo didnt get better? Does anyone think Hugo didnt put play Wang during the World Cup? Yet would anyone bet on Hugo to beat Wang 50-50 as a betting person?

You really need to stop using bad arguments to support your position. Harimoto played a great match. No one knows whether what he did was sustainable. No one knows what adjustments CNT will come up with. But acting like Hugo or Tomo didn't play great matches is your prerogative. But if you want the rational bet I outlined above, let me know, I will think about it. The odds are definitely not 50-50. And no one has said that. But you seem unable to help yourself and show why you can't play tournament table tennis.

WCQ was a -600 favorite against Harimoto coming into the match. Those are the odds from the bookmakers and equates to an implied odds of 85% WCQ victory.

Just to be fair, TB should be offering at least $100 to everyone's $20.

But betting on the future is completely besides the point, since all the discussion has been about the specific match yesterday.

 

[joshmak10]

Sometimes TTD forum posts can be more interesting and entertaining than the actual WTT matches. Guess we gotta thank our friend TB for the last few days of entertainment

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I seriously don't get what everybody is clamoring about. I don't like to argue. Let's just make it simple.

From now until 2028, I will pay you $20 for each game that Harimoto takes off of WCQ. You pay me $20 for each game that WCQ takes off of Harimoto.

Fair Deal? Any takers?

If you are so confident that Harimoto caused WCQ to play poorly, its easy money for you right?
I could also easily be wrong. But my opinion right now is that WCQ played a bad game, had a "bad shooting night", but will recover. Since you all are so confident that WCQ played his best and Harimoto's brilliant strategy forced WCQ into error, come claim your free money from me.

@ThePongCommenter
@NextLevel
@piligrim
@NetProphet

Nobody is saying that Harimoto will win the majority of his future matches against Wang Chuqin and you know that. Let's not throw stupid strawmen arguments out there.

Let's go back to your initial comment that started this all

You're not allowed to offer constructive criticism of Harimoto on this forum. He is "best non-Chinese".

But years later, he is still using tension rubber on both sides, still stands square in the middle of the table. Everyone told me he is "best non-Chinese". Everybody said "he is still so young, he will still get better". Years later, the gap has closed between him and rest of world. Players like Hugo Calderano have surpassed him by taking more risk and playing a more adult style. Harimoto now often loses to his own teammates. You can't even really call him best player in his own team. He's more like the first among equals.

From now until 2028, I will pay you for every match Hugo takes against a top Chinese player and you will pay me for every match Harimoto takes against a top Chinese player. Or, choose another player with a more adult style who you think will be the best non-Chinese and the same bet applies. Should be free money for you right?

 

[Lazer]

Since I'm so naive, get one of your buddies to take the deal. So simple. Since i'm clearly wrong, just come claim the money. I will pay any of you $20 for each match Harimoto wins from WCQ.

Well WCQ has broken down and risen before.... I think he will again, but Hari has gained a lot of confidence so he will for sure be harder to deal with...

That's a dangerous deal You are looking for, I wont take it either way...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[NextLevel]

When I forward the video of the Harimoto win to a friend and called it the best argument for Zyre 03 ever and followed up 2 hours later, he said he hadn't watched it. And then said oh sh*t, he didnt realize Harimoto won. To which i replied that it is hard for us to realize things we already think are impossible lol.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

When I forward the video of the Harimoto win to a friend and called it the best argument for Zyre 03 ever and followed up 2 hours later, he said he hadn't watched it. And then said oh sh*t, he didnt realize Harimoto won. To which i replied that it is hard for us to realize things we already think are impossible lol.

But he is only using it on one side while Togami, who has surpassed Harimoto, uses it on both sides and lost to Wang Chuqin so maybe he needs to go back to tension rubber in order to threaten the top Chinese. Maybe even a crabby style and neutral foot stance...