Two questions bordering the ethical approach to competitive table tennis

[JHB]

In lower leagues, especially the lower divisions of local leagues, foul serves are almost de rigeur and nobody gives a rat's..........

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I am going to play competitive for the first time in the swedish lowest league this fall. How should I approach these situations, considering that players judge themselves and it is not only about myself but my team:

1 Opponent does an illegal serve, such as if their nose hides the ball for a moment. Should I immediately call out and demand the point to myself?

2 I play somebody with very short reach. Can I serve super short backspin serve that is literally impossible to reach for the opponent? Ethics? Fair play? What do we do?

Consider also the scenario where above are the only points I will collect for myself, and I will do it to avoid a 3x0-11 defeat.

unfortunately, you have players that are very ethical
and some are all for the win and can loose sportsmanship to achieve that (some label it as just being competitive).

Unless you are making money from your performance, as a senior head coach in Taiwan often said, it is just a sport....
why do all these "things" for a sport, especially you get nothing from it other than personal pride.

I think most people will end up being disgusted from it.

The question is, would you want to loose your ethical approach and the match?
Xiang Peng lost both the match and his character just the other day (these are words from many of Chinese "high IQ fans".

 

[igorponger]

USATT WELL DONE.

USATT has official guidance intended to regulate unumpired competitions, as part of official Rules book.
Get the USATT rules book and follow it invariably.

 

[Yuomay]

Just a question, is it really possible to play in the lowest leagues and be able to perform a consistent and low ghost serve?

Most people in these leagues don’t even know how to return à side top or side under (they either push everything or drive everything). Should you not exploit that?

 

[joshmak10]

I am going to play competitive for the first time in the swedish lowest league this fall. How should I approach these situations, considering that players judge themselves and it is not only about myself but my team:

1 Opponent does an illegal serve, such as if their nose hides the ball for a moment. Should I immediately call out and demand the point to myself?

2 I play somebody with very short reach. Can I serve super short backspin serve that is literally impossible to reach for the opponent? Ethics? Fair play? What do we do?

Consider also the scenario where above are the only points I will collect for myself, and I will do it to avoid a 3x0-11 defeat.

1) If someone does an illegal serve, call it out immediately. Fair play applies to everyone, doesn’t matter if it’s a lower league. You either play by the rules or get out.
2) I have a thread talking about this too. Personally looking back at it, it’s just a tactic in the end. Sure it’s a bit cheap to win that way, but hey as long as ur ghost serve is legal and ur opponent is too short to reach it, it’s just a tactic at the end of the day. Nothing in the rules says u cannot serve ghost serve to a short person

 

[NetProphet]

1) If someone does an illegal serve, call it out immediately. Fair play applies to everyone, doesn’t matter if it’s a lower league. You either play by the rules or get out.
2) I have a thread talking about this too. Personally looking back at it, it’s just a tactic in the end. Sure it’s a bit cheap to win that way, but hey as long as ur ghost serve is legal and ur opponent is too short to reach it, it’s just a tactic at the end of the day. Nothing in the rules says u cannot serve ghost serve to a short person

Im surprised that you think it's still OK to be rather unsporting just to win rather than actually engaging and competing with the opponent. Coming to play the rules rather than the opponent is not a fun, enjoyable or sporting way for Table Tennis to be played.
It's not 'just' a tactic.
It's a tactic, sure, but it's a crappy and cowardly one.
Blatant exploitation of a players physical limitation so you don't have to actually play a point against them. Actively seeking a way to NOT play table tennis on your serve just so you can win is so crappy and such a chicken shit way for someone to conduct themselves. You can do it, sure, but I cannot imagine it comes without damage to your reputation, at least not in my part of the world.

So maybe its a culture thing?

I've always been appalled at how so many South American soccer teams have celebrated blatant cheating and conning the ref, all the diving and simulation etc. It's seen as disgusting cheating where I'm from so I guess it may depend where on the planet you are living? 🤷‍♂️

 

[Yuomay]

Isn’t the serve supposed to set you up to win the point ?

I really don’t understand the argument, if someone doesn’t know how to return underspin from the FH then I’ll serve underspin there.

Same with sidespin, same with short…

If you don’t want this, then maybe don’t have children under the age of 12 play in the same league as adults no?

 

[NetProphet]

Isn’t the serve supposed to set you up to win the point ?

I really don’t understand the argument, if someone doesn’t know how to return underspin from the FH then I’ll serve underspin there.

Same with sidespin, same with short…

If you don’t want this, then maybe don’t have children under the age of 12 play in the same league as adults no?

Do you have children?
Have you tried to teach them anything? How to play a sport, or about sporting values, sportsmanship etc.?
How can kids improve if everyone drops a service over the net that they cannot reach until they are appx 14 yrs old? 9-10 yrs of playing without being able to compete in any way that can be deemed (by rational criteria) as fair. Makes no sense on any level, unless you're someone who only wants to win and has a more ruthless than average approach to such things. I would never teach my kids to behave this way.
I would tell them, you have 15 other serves to catch your opponent out with in a way that forces you both to compete with each other on that table in the fairest possible manner, equal for both let's say. Compete to see who is better!
If it's about who's taller then just stand against the wall over there and that's that done! You're taller, congratulations.
That's where I'm coming from.

A short BS serve as a tactic v someone who doesn't like backspin but can actually REACH THE BALL is a different thing entirely..

 

[Yuomay]

Well I see what you mean, but for me the person being unethical is the parent of the child. If he or she cannot play the game yet they shouldn’t compete

 

[Sriver1]

Well I see what you mean, but for me the person being unethical is the parent of the child. If he or she cannot play the game yet they shouldn’t compete

This is disgusting.

 

[Yuomay]

This is disgusting.

How ?

In no other sport this would even be a discussion. There's no 8 year olds playing football with adults for example.

And also we are talking about a commpetition where people are capable of serving ghost serves consisently.

 

[NetProphet]

How ?

In no other sport this would even be a discussion. There's no 8 year olds playing football with adults for example.

And also we are talking about a commpetition where people are capable of serving ghost serves consisently.

If you cannot be decent enough as an adult to see or understand how Adults V Children has its own dynamic then the fault is in you and that's just how it is.

And for the record there are adults playing football with 8 year olds everyday, everywhere and every day since the day you were born. They just don't play the same way as when they're playing with children

 

[Yuomay]

That's for sure not official competition though.

 

[joshmak10]

Im surprised that you think it's still OK to be rather unsporting just to win rather than actually engaging and competing with the opponent. Coming to play the rules rather than the opponent is not a fun, enjoyable or sporting way for Table Tennis to be played.
It's not 'just' a tactic.
It's a tactic, sure, but it's a crappy and cowardly one.
Blatant exploitation of a players physical limitation so you don't have to actually play a point against them. Actively seeking a way to NOT play table tennis on your serve just so you can win is so crappy and such a chicken shit way for someone to conduct themselves. You can do it, sure, but I cannot imagine it comes without damage to your reputation, at least not in my part of the world.

So maybe its a culture thing?

I've always been appalled at how so many South American soccer teams have celebrated blatant cheating and conning the ref, all the diving and simulation etc. It's seen as disgusting cheating where I'm from so I guess it may depend where on the planet you are living? 🤷‍♂️

It’s all a matter of perception. In a tournament where everyone is trying to win, every point matters. So every tactic within the rules, whether it be “crappy” or not, is fair game. Some may find it morally wrong. Some don’t. And that’s totally fine I can respect all viewpoints.

How ?

In no other sport this would even be a discussion. There's no 8 year olds playing football with adults for example.

And also we are talking about a commpetition where people are capable of serving ghost serves consisently.

I understand what you are saying. I also mostly agree. Sending small kids to compete in the same league as adults, especially inexperienced kids, is usually never a good idea. They should compete with kids closer to their age. Theres no chance there’s a men’s league soccer team that actually plays a real proper sanctioned match against a peewee kids soccer team