What makes more difference - rubbers or blades

[UpSideDownCarl]

Everyone from east to west uses the word feeling.
Of cause this is also equipment related with the gluing, the hall conditions etc

But in the context of using a setup that HAS GOOD FEELING, the issue is not how you touch the ball but how the equipment FEELS.

Just think about the context and the difference between talking about a player's feeling for the game and how that is different from how a setup feels.

 

[MORTtheORT]

Feel is important when you are learning how to touch the ball and are just developing those skills of learning how to make deep or thin to contact on different kinds of shots and when to use each. When you are skilled and know how to do that, and have a sense for when different touch is going to be more useful, feel starts being primarily about liking and enjoying what you are playing with but it won't change your level much if you are using something that does not have that feeling. If you are decently high level and you walk up to a table and are given a setup that is quite different from what you normally use and has much worse feeling, your level won't change much with different equipment; you just won't love the equipment you are using....maybe only at first, and then you get used to it....or, maybe even after you get used to it, you still won't like it. But the change in equipment shouldn't change your level much. If you were fairly low level and did not have the skills to loop backspin consistently on open ups and to counterloop consistently, the change in equipment could mess you up. But if those skills are solidly under your belt and you are making choices like when to make thinner contact and make slower spinnier loops or deeper thicker contact for heavy spin with speed and power, then a setup that does everything you need but feels lifeless is not going to change your level much. If you played someone you are close with but win almost all the time even though it is close, you will likely still win using the setup that feels lifeless but does what it should.

As far as old blades or old rubbers: I would take a blade from the 60s with new rubbers every day of the week. And I would never take a new blade from today fitted with rubbers that were used and popular in the 1960s. Sriver on a Viscaria....nope.

And if you read between the lines above: the answer is still training.

Yes the person is the greatest issue. But the people who I am playing with do not agree about feel and the coaches do lots and lots of feel drills. As I said earlier, doubles partner was using another person's blade that had a dead feel and his game dropped dramatically. Comment was...no feel in the blade. Grabbed a higher level blade.... Went back to wiping everyone off the table. All I can say is watching an absolute elite level players not care what the rubbers are and focus on the blade is telling that it matters alot at the very top, not just for beginners.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yes the person is the greatest issue. But the people who I am playing with do not agree about feel and the coaches do lots and lots of feel drills. As I said earlier, doubles partner was using another person's blade that had a dead feel and his game dropped dramatically. Comment was...no feel in the blade. Grabbed a higher level blade.... Went back to wiping everyone off the table. All I can say is watching an absolute elite level players not care what the rubbers are and focus on the blade is telling that it matters alot at the very top, not just for beginners.

Both matter to some extent. I can see that some people may feel the blade matters more and others feel the rubbers matter more.

But often, if you are using something and take the time to get used to it, whatever the equipment, you will learn how to grove your game with whatever you are using. Will it take time to get used to something that does not feel as good to you? Yes. Will the level you play change if you have NO TIME to get used to the equipment, it will even if you switch from what you are used to to something way better, or that feels way better. Until you are used to something, it is hard to judge your overall performance with it.

If your friend played with that racket he disliked for a few weeks (it might be torture but he would get used to it) once he was used to the equipment, his level would not be substantially different. The difference would be there. But it would be smaller than a lot of people who focus on equipment think.

All that being said, I am all for using a setup that feels great to you. Why use something you don't like.

But I know players who can beat a lot of members on this forum with a shoe, a rock, a block of wood. Only the shoe allows you to generate spin.

Use what you like. Decide for yourself if you think the rubbers or the blade are more important.

I prefer to play than to argue about things that really are not so important like whether a blade or rubbers are more important. Use what you want.

 

[MORTtheORT]

S

Both matter to some extent. I can see that some people may feel the blade matters more and others feel the rubbers matter more.

But often, if you are using something and take the time to get used to it, whatever the equipment, you will learn how to grove your game with whatever you are using. Will it take time to get used to something that does not feel as good to you? Yes. Will the level you play change if you have NO TIME to get used to the equipment, it will even if you switch from what you are used to to something way better, or that feels way better. Until you are used to something, it is hard to judge your overall performance with it.

If your friend played with that racket he disliked for a few weeks (it might be torture but he would get used to it) once he was used to the equipment, his level would not be substantially different. The difference would be there. But it would be smaller than a lot of people who focus on equipment think.

All that being said, I am all for using a setup that feels great to you. Why use something you don't like.

But I know players who can beat a lot of members on this forum with a shoe, a rock, a block of wood. Only the shoe allows you to generate spin.

Use what you like. Decide for yourself if you think the rubbers or the blade are more important.

I prefer to play than to argue about things that really are not so important like whether a blade or rubbers are more important. Use what you want.

This conversation has come about regarding performance and as you say, his level would still be impacted and he is playing against other advance level players in the 2000s so that impact does seem to matter. I did watch him beat a player using his phone...that was entertaining to watch and who would have thought you could chop block with a phone.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

As I said earlier, doubles partner was using another person's blade that had a dead feel and his game dropped dramatically. Comment was...no feel in the blade. Grabbed a higher level blade.... Went back to wiping everyone off the table. All I can say is watching an absolute elite level players not care what the rubbers are and focus on the blade is telling that it matters alot at the very top, not just for beginners.

And that higher level blade that he wiped everyone off the table with had equally shitty rubber on it as the blade that he considered "dead"? Yes or no?

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I am going to continue to listen to my doubles partner - Olympic medalist and his coach. They seem to know something about the game and their view of feel seems to disagree with everything you say. But good luck with it.

Which Olympic medalist is this that is still competing in doubles and receiving coaching?

 

[MORTtheORT]

And that higher level blade that he wiped everyone off the table with had equally shitty rubber on it as the blade that he considered "dead"? Yes or no?

I think Glayzer so intermediate rubbers. But I am more making note that he didn't seem to care what the rubbers are.

 

[NextLevel]

A couple of points: my current coach has been asking me for the past month to test his backhand rubber in red since he thinks something is off with it. He doesn't want to reglue it and has played pretty much his level with it.

Marcos Freitas talks about feeling as being the skill one possesses naturally for learning the game and argues that it doesnt matter as much as training hard because while good feeling might mean you might learn quickly, someone putting in the hours might perform better.

The late Barry Dattel, who was a strong player in the US when he was younger told me he wasn't sure his first composite blade was for him and wasn't sold.on his results using it until he beat a strong player he hadn't beaten before and then his opinion of the blade changed.

I point all this out so that everyone can be clear that I am speaking from my experience with experts as well.

I have used a lot of blades and rubbers. I can tell when someone inexperienced is largely trolling vs speaking with genuine expertise. I have seen many such people post online over the years and I struggle to recall one incident when I was significantly off because people who play table tennis, even when they don't agree with you, do it in a way yhat shows you that they know what you are talking about. Nothing posted on this thread has changed my mind. The players whose playing levels I am familiar with in person who have posted (most stronger than me and over 2100 USATT to be conservative) have corroborated mine.

The only Olympic medallists that our incessant defender of blades defining the modern game can be likely associated (assuming he is really from Australia) with are all Korean from the 1988 Olympics. And I doubt any of them would hesitate to answer that they would pick a 1960s blade with modern rubbers over a modern blade with 1960s rubbers. But he knows best so... I hope for his own sake he isn’t a troll working on a burner account.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I think Glayzer so intermediate rubbers. But I am more making note that he didn't seem to care what the rubbers are.

Judging by the fact that you aren't even sure of what the equipment was or the condition it was in from your story, this story and your interpretation of his casual comment is pretty meaningless. But maybe you can go ask him the question that was posed in the OP and see if he is willing to go on the record as an Olympic medalist and say that he would prefer using a good blade with crap rubber rather than a crap blade with good rubber.

Are you going to name this Olympic medalist or no? I speak with Olympians (not medalists) and Olympic level players all the time and I am very confident that the room would not be divided on this topic. But it is possible. So I am very curious.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

A couple of points: my current coach has been asking me for the past month to test his backhand rubber in red since he thinks something is off with it. He doesn't want to reglue it and has played pretty much his level with it.

Marcos Freitas talks about feeling as being the skill one possesses naturally for learning the game and argues that it doesnt matter as much as training hard because while good feeling might mean you might learn quickly, someone putting in the hours might perform better.

The late Barry Dattel, who was a strong player in the US when he was younger told me he wasn't sure his first composite blade was for him and wasn't sold.on his results using it until he beat a strong player he hadn't beaten before and then his opinion of the blade changed.

I point all this out so that everyone can be clear that I am speaking from my experience with experts as well.

I have used a lot of blades and rubbers. I can tell when someone inexperienced is largely trolling vs speaking with genuine expertise. I have seen many such people post online over the years and I struggle to recall one incident when I was significantly off because people who play table tennis, even when they don't agree with you, do it in a way yhat shows you that they know what you are talking about. Nothing posted on this thread has changed my mind. The players whose playing levels I am familiar with in person who have posted (most stronger than me and over 2100 USATT to be conservative) have corroborated mine.

The only Olympic medallists that our incessant defender of blades defining the modern game can be likely associated (assuming he is really from Australia) with are all Korean from the 1988 Olympics. And I doubt any of them would hesitate to answer that they would pick a 1960s blade with modern rubbers over a modern blade with 1960s rubbers. But he knows best so... I hope for his own sake he isn’t a troll working on a burner account.

Anders Lind is also on record saying that "rubber matters a lot more" than blade but I can't be bothered right now to go dig up where I saw it. People can believe me or not, I don't really care cause this thread has been given much more attention than it deserves lol.

 

[NextLevel]

Anders Lind is also on record saying that "rubber matters a lot more" than blade but I can't be bothered right now to go dig up where I saw it. People can believe me or not, I don't really care cause this thread has been given much more attention than it deserves lol.

Yep. Very hard to remember when someone stated common sense that no player with their experience would debate.

 

[MORTtheORT]

Judging by the fact that you aren't even sure of what the equipment was or the condition it was in from your story, this story and your interpretation of his casual comment is pretty meaningless. But maybe you can go ask him the question that was posed in the OP and see if he is willing to go on the record as an Olympic medalist and say that he would prefer using a good blade with crap rubber rather than a crap blade with good rubber.

Are you going to name this Olympic medalist or no? I speak with Olympians (not medalists) and Olympic level players all the time and I am very confident that the room would not be divided on this topic. But it is possible. So I am very curious.

This chat had moved away from just the difference and went to pure performance. Need a good blade to get the optimal performance.

I am not in a position to name them, given that it is a private chat and they are very private. I would be doing the wrong thing. I am not sure about the rubber, as they cycled through them rapidly just before playing, and I did not own the blades. Did not seem to care about the rubber (my impression was they would just adjust to it), but made a strong reference to feedback, which I found interesting.

I'll play with him again late next week. I will ask, but I already know what he will say to me.... The player.... To give some context, I ask about strategy for our doubles....he says put it on the table more than them....

 

[songdavid98]

@NextLevel
Just stop responding to these marketers. Let this thread die.

the blade believers probably didn't experience the hurricane+tenergy combo era.

the blade can be anything. as long as you put on hurricane+tenergy, we could all borrow and try out each other's blade and loop hard confidently and even play matches with it.
And we did. That's how NextLevel and I know we are right. And even pros did it too (borrow a teammate's racket)

the blades all perform the same way, just vibrate a little differently.
I've never had a blade be so different from another blade that it would make me miss.
My loops would be the same. Same result, different vibration/feel.

but if i borrow a racket with some other rubbers, i would not confidently play a match with it.
Rubbers can be so different from each other that they cause you to MISS.
For example, tenergy on both sides. With my muscle memory for a hurricane forehand, it would definitely overshoot if I used tenergy on forehand.
Also, some people with the tacky+tensor combo will use the wrong side by accident and they would immediately miss. I still see that today.

people are experiencing the same thing right now with Zyre. It makes them miss initially because Zyre is so different from past rubbers.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Anders Lind is also on record saying that "rubber matters a lot more" than blade but I can't be bothered right now to go dig up where I saw it. People can believe me or not, I don't really care cause this thread has been given much more attention than it deserves lol.

Zhang Jike said on record that blade testing will need days to get used to
While rubbers is a matter of few hits

The fact is what pros says are irrelevant to hobby players, and the difference is the training

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

@NextLevel
Just stop responding to these marketers. Let this thread die.

the blade believers probably didn't experience the hurricane+tenergy combo era.

the blade can be anything. as long as you put on hurricane+tenergy, we could all borrow and try out each other's blade and loop hard confidently and even play matches with it.
And we did. That's how NextLevel and I know we are right. And even pros did it too (borrow a teammate's racket)

the blades all perform the same way, just vibrate a little differently.
I've never had a blade be so different from another blade that it would make me miss.
My loops would be the same. Same result, different vibration/feel.

Where did the golden Viscaria guy disappear to?

 

[MORTtheORT]

Zhang Jike said on record that blade testing will need days to get used to
While rubbers is a matter of few hits

The fact is what pros says are irrelevant to hobby players, and the difference is the training

That is the impression I have got. They adjust to the rubber quickly. I note we mere mortal players talk a lot about rubbers, while the top players don't. This also just made me realise they also have their names on blades, but not really on rubbers.

 

[NextLevel]

When a pro plsyer is not competing anymore, they tend not to care what they use in general. That said, anyone taking a reference about the feeling of a setup to refer exclusively to the blade is exercising their prerogative

Zhang Jike said on record that blade testing will need days to get used to
While rubbers is a matter of few hits

The fact is what pros says are irrelevant to hobby players, and the difference is the training

He (ZJK) probably played 2 or three rubbers throughout his career and only recently changed contract to Donic. So remind us who know this why hr should need more than 2 to three hits to get used to something he almost never changed vs blades which come with different woods and weights?

You should ask him if you understood what he was saying ehy he didnt use more rubber brands throughout his career. Just DHS ans Butterfly? Because he was paid to? Or because that was what all the top players used and he helped promote the rubbers?

Anders Lind I believe said thr statement attributed to him while reviewing his setup amd why he chose it, which makes the statement far more relevant to what is being discussed here.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Zhang Jike said on record that blade testing will need days to get used to
While rubbers is a matter of few hits

The fact is what pros says are irrelevant to hobby players, and the difference is the training

We aren't talking about testing and getting familiar with equipment, we're talking about whether rubber or blade affects overall paddle performance more. In your example about what Zhang Jike said, he is obviously talking about a scenario where someone is changing blades but still using rubbers with good performance, not crap rubbers.

What pros say on this topic is perfectly relevant to hobby players. I'm not sure what training has to do with this discussion.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

This chat had moved away from just the difference and went to pure performance. Need a good blade to get the optimal performance.

I am not in a position to name them, given that it is a private chat and they are very private. I would be doing the wrong thing. I am not sure about the rubber, as they cycled through them rapidly just before playing, and I did not own the blades. Did not seem to care about the rubber (my impression was they would just adjust to it), but made a strong reference to feedback, which I found interesting.

I'll play with him again late next week. I will ask, but I already know what he will say to me.... The player.... To give some context, I ask about strategy for our doubles....he says put it on the table more than them....

Yeah sorry I really don't believe any former Olympic TT medalist is spending their retirement "rapidly cycling thru rackets" and playing doubles and casual singles against 2000 level players.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

We aren't talking about testing and getting familiar with equipment, we're talking about whether rubber or blade affects overall paddle performance more. In your example about what Zhang Jike said, he is obviously talking about a scenario where someone is changing blades but still using rubbers with good performance, not crap rubbers.

What pros say on this topic is perfectly relevant to hobby players. I'm not sure what training has to do with this discussion.

hobby players think they are pros and use what they think they can control.
most times, they cannot

Zhang Jike talked about the importance of the blade over a rubber and that is just a message I am sharing with you.
If he has that to say, it does have some weight, he is only a grand slam, more than any Australian Olympian.

Of course, since I said in page 1 or 2, the comparison in OP is so skewed, its not even a fair comparison, and I also said, rubber will matter more for hobby players, but when we talking pros, the blade is also extremely important too.
But I understand, its all hobby players talk here. so rubbers wins.

and where training came to be - then you should read where training was mentioned. and where just maybe, people should spend less them worrying about blades and rubbers and more time training.