Returning player (AR+/OFF–) looking for versatile rubbers for Xiom Hugo HAL [no longer: Cybershape Wood]

[chinacurious]

Thanks, helps a lot. Sounds like you might have an opinion on the blade? Pleas do share, I simultaneously trust my feeling and try to be open to wise words of advice.

First of all, basically any blade you can't test for a prolonged time with the rubbers you already know is a small gamble. Any classic composition all wood All+/Off- blade will be a pretty safe bet. Apart from that I can not say any particular blade would be better or worse for you.

The one thing I don't like about the Cybershape blades is the price. You can get the same quality blade for a fraction of the price. My No.1 go-to recommendation is Yasaka Sweden Extra.

On the other hand, if you don't mind spending a little more money and are curious about cybershape, go for it! Lord knows I have spent way too much money on blades over the past few years.

 

[Doppelschlag]

They are very similar, but Pure has a thinner center ply. My Clipper is ~6.6mm and my Pure is ~6.4mm iirc. Clipper feels both stiffer and harder to me, and plays more direct. Clipper has a longer and lower trajectory, it produces more threatening quality shots for me, but off the table I have to be more mindful of the lower trajectory or sometimes my shots will hit the net. Where the Pure has a higher but shorter trajectory, which I feel allows me a higher margin for error when attacking aggressively even if the ball it produces is not quite as penetrating as Clipper

So, this is very interesting! I had a long chat on the phone today with a seller att TTex in Sweden. They test all blades extensively. He said that Cybershape Wood seems to have turned out much faster than intended, and that it is in fact, according to their testing, bot slower, and in some senses less controllable, than the clipper. Reason ist that the very high flexibility (see ttgearlab, that talks about the extreme »hold«) makes it a bit unpredictable, both in short game and faster game, almost like a very springy tensor rubber. He clearly recommended either the Cybershape Allround Classic, or even more, the Clipper.

Now my question for you is – is a 7ply like the Cybershape Clipper also a good blade for further developing technique, or should I swallow all pride and go for the very most beginner blade, the Cybershape Allround Classic? As I wrote, I do have many hours ingrained in me, move well and can reasonably handle the inner carbon I’ve been lent, but I do try to be humble as well and have no problem grinding away with 5ply. I guess, 5ply is more forgiving, but 7pl makes you work for you technique more?

 

[Doppelschlag]

First of all, basically any blade you can't test for a prolonged time with the rubbers you already know is a small gamble. Any classic composition all wood All+/Off- blade will be a pretty safe bet. Apart from that I can not say any particular blade would be better or worse for you.

The one thing I don't like about the Cybershape blades is the price. You can get the same quality blade for a fraction of the price. My No.1 go-to recommendation is Yasaka Sweden Extra.

On the other hand, if you don't mind spending a little more money and are curious about cybershape, go for it! Lord knows I have spent way too much money on blades over the past few years.

That is very constructive an helpful. The prices are ok where I live, they’re all on sale. And, as you correctly presumed, my curiosity will win.

Would you also consider a 7ply a »classic composition all wood«? Reason is—please see what I wrote in my previous reply—that one seller advised against the Wood, and rather recommended the CS Clipper, unless going for the very entry level 5ply CS Allround Classic.

As I wrote, I do have many hours ingrained in me, move well and can reasonably handle the inner carbon I’ve been lent, but I do try to be humble as well and have no problem grinding away with 5ply. I guess, 5ply is more forgiving, but 7ply forces you work for your spins and technique more?

 

[Tembel]

That is very constructive an helpful. The prices are ok where I live, they’re all on sale. And, as you correctly presumed, my curiosity will win.

Would you also consider a 7ply a »classic composition all wood«? Reason is—please see what I wrote in my previous reply—that one seller advised against the Wood, and rather recommended the CS Clipper, unless going for the very entry level 5ply CS Allround Classic.

As I wrote, I do have many hours ingrained in me, move well and can reasonably handle the inner carbon I’ve been lent, but I do try to be humble as well and have no problem grinding away with 5ply. I guess, 5ply is more forgiving, but 7ply forces you work for your spins and technique more?

If you live in the Stockholm area I would recommend you to go to the Stiga showroom. There you can test all possible(almost all possible) combos of their blades and rubbers. They have three tables setup and usually there is an ex pro-league player there who you can play against who will recommend you the setup that suits you best.

I now realize someone earlier in this thread already gave you this recommendation and you wrote you cannot easily travel there. So here is my recommendation:
Go with the Pure blade. Great stable blade that is not that fast, but still a tad faster than the regular allround classic. For rubber I say you can try the DNA Platinum M. Matra Pro is good too, but durability is much worse than DNA. Also DNA is available in a little thinner sponge thickness(both 2.3 and 2.1) which I believe you can start with to avoid some of that stress you have for the short game. So go with Pure + 2x DNA Platinum M 2.1mm).

 

[chinacurious]

Would you also consider a 7ply a »classic composition all wood«? Reason is—please see what I wrote in my previous reply—that one seller advised against the Wood, and rather recommended the CS Clipper, unless going for the very entry level 5ply CS Allround Classic.

In that case I would suggest to either go for the Pure or the Clipper. Pure is supposed to be slightly slower.
You can also ask for a blade of average weight (84-87g) to make sure you don't get an extreme outlier.

As for rubbers I still recommend Rakza 7 or Vega Europe H. I don't understand where the DNA Platinum came from. Maybe because they could be tested at the Stiga showroom.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

So, this is very interesting! I had a long chat on the phone today with a seller att TTex in Sweden. They test all blades extensively. He said that Cybershape Wood seems to have turned out much faster than intended, and that it is in fact, according to their testing, bot slower, and in some senses less controllable, than the clipper. Reason ist that the very high flexibility (see ttgearlab, that talks about the extreme »hold«) makes it a bit unpredictable, both in short game and faster game, almost like a very springy tensor rubber. He clearly recommended either the Cybershape Allround Classic, or even more, the Clipper.

Now my question for you is – is a 7ply like the Cybershape Clipper also a good blade for further developing technique, or should I swallow all pride and go for the very most beginner blade, the Cybershape Allround Classic? As I wrote, I do have many hours ingrained in me, move well and can reasonably handle the inner carbon I’ve been lent, but I do try to be humble as well and have no problem grinding away with 5ply. I guess, 5ply is more forgiving, but 7pl makes you work for you technique more?

I have not used the Cybershape AR but I have used a few regular Allround Classics, however this has been pre-40+ ball. For myself at least, it is too thin and too flexible for my habits, the Allround has a lot of vibration and a lot of flex which gives it a very 'deep' feeling, I prefer thicker and stiffer blades like Clipper and Pure because I feel they produce a more predictable response in my hand, where the flex of Allround can make it a bit too 'soggy' or 'absorbing' for my preferences. But for others this might be construed as being easier to manage/better in control. I do think it boils down to personal preference at this point, I think given time to adjust I can play fine with either blade, but I have adjusted to stiffer and faster blades than Allround. I don't think there is anything wrong with choosing the AR but at a certain point it stops being about wether a blade is good or bad, and more about if it is suitable for your abilities and preferences

 

[Doppelschlag]

I have not used the Cybershape AR but I have used a few regular Allround Classics, however this has been pre-40+ ball. For myself at least, it is too thin and too flexible for my habits, the Allround has a lot of vibration and a lot of flex which gives it a very 'deep' feeling, I prefer thicker and stiffer blades like Clipper and Pure because I feel they produce a more predictable response in my hand, where the flex of Allround can make it a bit too 'soggy' or 'absorbing' for my preferences. But for others this might be construed as being easier to manage/better in control. I do think it boils down to personal preference at this point, I think given time to adjust I can play fine with either blade, but I have adjusted to stiffer and faster blades than Allround. I don't think there is anything wrong with choosing the AR but at a certain point it stops being about wether a blade is good or bad, and more about if it is suitable for your abilities and preferences

Ok Guys,

this took another turn, and I ended up ordering a used Xiom Hugo HAL yesterday. Used for 30 minutes, glued once, and unsealed. Now I just hope for the best that it is all in that state and that it arrives safely!!!

This maybe changes my question a bit on a specific level, but not the principal question, and I am still a bit hesitant. I am considering three roads to travel:

1. Identical rubbers on FH/BH. Reasoning is: to have as few factors as possible in order to understand the blade, my playing and the techniques as good as possible;
2. Similar/identical top sheets, but softer or thinner on BH. A modified version of No. 1;
3. Looking for best FH and BH separately, e.g. semi-hybrid on FH and medium tensor on BH.

As some possible implementations of these options (considering what my dealer has), it would be something like:

1. Identical FH/BH
   1. Fastarc G1 (1,8 or 2,0)
   2. Xiom Vega X
   3. Rakza 7
   4. Stiga Mantra Pro M
2. Identical/similar topsheet
   1. FH: Fastarc G1/Xiom Vega X 2,0 || BH: Fastarc G1/Xiom Vega X 1,8
   2. FH: Xiom Vega X || BH: Xiom Vega Europe
   3. FH: Stiga Mantra Pro H || BH: Stiga Mantra Pro M
3. Different FH/BH – endless variations …
   1. FH: Xiom Vega Pro H || BH: Xiom Vega X
   2. FH: Rakza Z || BH: Rakza 7
   3. FH: Tibhar Hybrid MK || BH: Xiom Vega X
   4. FH: Stiga Hybrid || BH: Stiga Mantra Pro M
   5. FH: Hexer Powergrip || BH: Hexer Grip
   6. … or any combination of the above

And a general question is: should I – as a returner with good ball feeling, but lacking in consistency (however with the will to practice consistency) – even consider semi-tacky on FH? On the other hand, in China, that’s (tacky) what you begin with, right?

Some better players I played against advised me not to get to soft rubbers, rather thinner, if they are too fast.

The precise combination will probably be a matter of availability at my local shop – however, I would really love to hear from the bee hive brain again!

Disclaimer: No, I’m note only overthinking instead of just »go practicing« — I have my gifted setup, and I train three times a week. Just want to make sure I don’t fall into any trap of going too fast or too safe.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

I have my gifted setup, and I train three times a week. Just want to make sure I don’t fall into any trap of going too fast or too safe.

I think because you are training regularly and have good feeling already, there won't necessarily be a trap of being too fast or too safe. When you are playing frequently you tend to get used to new stuff relatively quickly, and will also be able to determine if something is to your taste or not in a more reasonable amount of time. Beyond that it just boils down to which pieces of equipment you are most curious about, there is no guarantee you will like a rubber especially if you are trying it on a brand new and unfamiliar blade

 

[golden_son]

I've been dying to try G-1 on my HAL but wanted to burn through some other partially-used rubbers first. So you can experiment for me and let me know 😄. Same with Rakza 7 on the backhand.

On a serious note, if you're lacking consistency, go with what's going to give you that consistency first. To me this means nothing too springy like a Vega X or too unfamiliar like a hybrid/tacky rubber. Rakza 7 is a great intermediate rubber for learning while still being able to pressure people with quality spin and speed in real games. Once you're happy with your consistency, upgrade to something with more venom. G-1 could also be good for this, but it's a bit a faster than R7. To me it feels like a direct upgrade, similar feeling but improved all around.

 

[Doppelschlag]

I think because you are training regularly and have good feeling already, there won't necessarily be a trap of being too fast or too safe. When you are playing frequently you tend to get used to new stuff relatively quickly, and will also be able to determine if something is to your taste or not in a more reasonable amount of time. Beyond that it just boils down to which pieces of equipment you are most curious about, there is no guarantee you will like a rubber especially if you are trying it on a brand new and unfamiliar blade

You mean, there is no objective truth in answer to my question?

Seriously though, you have turned out to be a great help to all my inquiries the last couple of weeks. Big thanks!

 

[Doppelschlag]

I've been dying to try G-1 on my HAL but wanted to burn through some other partially-used rubbers first. So you can experiment for me and let me know 😄. Same with Rakza 7 on the backhand.

On a serious note, if you're lacking consistency, go with what's going to give you that consistency first. To me this means nothing too springy like a Vega X or too unfamiliar like a hybrid/tacky rubber. Rakza 7 is a great intermediate rubber for learning while still being able to pressure people with quality spin and speed in real games. Once you're happy with your consistency, upgrade to something with more venom. G-1 could also be good for this, but it's a bit a faster than R7. To me it feels like a direct upgrade, similar feeling but improved all around.

Thanks a lot for your insight.

 

[Doppelschlag]

General question: Is there any reason to start thicker than 1,8mm? Or rather go for 2,0 mm for starters?

 

[golden_son]

To be honest I've only every used max thickness rubbers. Thinner sponge is really more for defenders or maybe all-rounders. Based on the rubbers you're considering, I'm pretty sure you lean offensive. Just get max thickness and train to control it.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

General question: Is there any reason to start thicker than 1,8mm? Or rather go for 2,0 mm for starters?

If you play topspin I think it's best to use 2.0

You mean, there is no objective truth in answer to my question?

Seriously though, you have turned out to be a great help to all my inquiries the last couple of weeks. Big thanks!

I can only put my own personal experience and preferences out there 😉 I could suggest you the rubbers that I prefer, which would be Mantra Pro H forehand and G-1 backhand, but these are a fair bit firmer than the rubbers you are used to which combined with a new blade might be a lot to adjust to. Out of the rubbers you've listed I think a conservative upgrade would be R7 on the backhand and Hybrid MK forehand- R7 is a bit softer than G1 which I feel makes it a bit more forgiving, and Hybrid MK is a good balanced hybrid (although on the less sticky side of the hybrid tree). Rakza Z can be a bit of a polarizing rubber as it is actually pretty sticky and holds the ball for a long time, it projects the ball in a high arc and I felt it to be very safe to play with but I prefer rubbers that give a more direct response. RZ might also be the heaviest rubber you have listed but I also feel like it is the sturdiest, and it holds its tackiness for a while if you take care of it. I did like Vega X and Hexer Powergrip but I didn't feel they lasted very long, I felt noticeable changes to their behavior after about 2mo/80+ hours where I felt a bit less loss of performance with rubbers like G1 and R7.

 

[Doppelschlag]

If you play topspin I think it's best to use 2.0


I can only put my own personal experience and preferences out there 😉 I could suggest you the rubbers that I prefer, which would be Mantra Pro H forehand and G-1 backhand, but these are a fair bit firmer than the rubbers you are used to which combined with a new blade might be a lot to adjust to. Out of the rubbers you've listed I think a conservative upgrade would be R7 on the backhand and Hybrid MK forehand- R7 is a bit softer than G1 which I feel makes it a bit more forgiving, and Hybrid MK is a good balanced hybrid (although on the less sticky side of the hybrid tree). Rakza Z can be a bit of a polarizing rubber as it is actually pretty sticky and holds the ball for a long time, it projects the ball in a high arc and I felt it to be very safe to play with but I prefer rubbers that give a more direct response. RZ might also be the heaviest rubber you have listed but I also feel like it is the sturdiest, and it holds its tackiness for a while if you take care of it. I did like Vega X and Hexer Powergrip but I didn't feel they lasted very long, I felt noticeable changes to their behavior after about 2mo/80+ hours where I felt a bit less loss of performance with rubbers like G1 and R7.

Thanks again for you unrelenting help!

That sounds very sound, will probably go for something like that. Hybrid MK wasn’t discussed yet, but is said to be very very controlled, however not very long lasting(?) Will ask my shop and also consider Vega Pro H as an alternative, supposed to last longer, and allegedly only very lightly tacky.

Rakza 7 sounds just about perfect for backhand. Have you tried Fastarc C-1 also, for comparison? Also less bouncy than Vega Europe? (Don’t like the bounciness in soft touch game.)

___
To make it more complicated again: At this evening’s training, I tried a colleagues’ setup: Donic Waldner Senso Carbon with FH: Xiom Omega VII Tour and BH: Xiom Vega Europe. Very light and nimble feeling. The Omega VII felt really wonderful, not at all to fast, but grippy and nice. Interestingly, the Vega Europe felt much more controlled on his bat than on my Smirnov Inner Carbon – less catapulty.

Edit: Just now checking that the Omega Tour is 55 ° – wouldn't have dreamed of it being so hard, it felt really nice and controlled, fine looping rubber …

Edit 2: Nice bonus thing: The Club’s coach sold me his old Donic Persson Powerplay – fitted with Yasaka Mark V and Butterfly Tenergy05 Hard – for 10 bucks. Not that I will use it over my new Hugo HAL, but I think it will prove a very good blade for testing rubbers on separately without having to regale on HAL directly. And a backup bat is not bat. Now I come to think of it – Tenergy05 Hard could travel to Hugo as well maybe …

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

Rakza 7 sounds just about perfect for backhand. Have you tried Fastarc C-1 also, for comparison? Also less bouncy than Vega Europe? (Don’t like the bounciness in soft touch game.)

I have also tried C1 but the blades I have used C1 and Vega Euro are different. C1 and G1 share the same topsheet, that is to say while C1 has a soft sponge (firmer than VE by a bit), it also has a much tougher topsheet and I do think it is a bit less bouncy on soft touch than VE, but I also think is a step up in terms of aggressiveness.

 

[Doppelschlag]

I have also tried C1 but the blades I have used C1 and Vega Euro are different. C1 and G1 share the same topsheet, that is to say while C1 has a soft sponge (firmer than VE by a bit), it also has a much tougher topsheet and I do think it is a bit less bouncy on soft touch than VE, but I also think is a step up in terms of aggressiveness.

I meant rather how C-1 compares to Vega Europe/Rakza 7/7 Soft, as a BH-alternatuve – hopefully less bouncy (and maybe more spinney/grippy)

 

[PoppaChubby]

Samsonov Force Pro Black edition + any ESN 47/47.5° rubbers with a 2.0/2.1 mm, not max, thickness rubbers, you'll thank me. Stiga DNA Pro M on both sides, 2.1 mm, perfect.

 

[Doppelschlag]

Samsonov Force Pro Black edition + any ESN 47/47.5° rubbers with a 2.0/2.1 mm, not max, thickness rubbers, you'll thank me. Stiga DNA Pro M on both sides, 2.1 mm, perfect.

That easy, heh? So your recommendation is any ESN in 2,0–2,1mm on both sides. Vega Pro, Vega X, Fastarc G-1, Mantra Pro M — etc, all good?

I like the concept of identical sides, but could you please elaborate on your reasoning still?

 

[Ultravisitor]

That easy, heh? So your recommendation is any ESN in 2,0–2,1mm on both sides. Vega Pro, Vega X, Fastarc G-1, Mantra Pro M — etc, all good?

I like the concept of identical sides, but could you please elaborate on your reasoning still?

Mantra pro is a Daiki Rubber not ESN. The other Rubbers you listed are just very similar. You can adjust between them easily and they play more or less the same. G1 and Rakza 7 stand out because of durability.