WTT Finals Hong Kong 2025, 12/10-14

[NextLevel]

Hugo does not play well against Felix. From 2024 Paris Olympics to now I would have thought he would have come up with some counter measures against Felix. Could also be he is getting use to his new blade as be no longer sponsored by Xiom so that could be more of a factor than just cause it’s Felix.

I understand that those things are important. I am focusing a bit more on the fact that Hugo's reward for being the #3 seed was playing the #6 seed Felix, thanks to the consistent application of WTT's "only a quarter of the draw is seeded" policy. For an event like this, things like Sora losing to WCQ in round 1 or Hugo losing to Felix in round 1 become almost inevitable when under the old rules, Sora would have played Dang and Hugo would have played AJH, players they currently have never lost to.

 

[oophyte]

Sora's gonna upset wcq first round 3-1 god told me

Holy s*it you were a prophet! Sora did go 3-1 against WCQ. Unfortunately, God didn't tell you it would be a best of 7.

 

[Metaxa]

Hugo does not play well against Felix. From 2024 Paris Olympics to now I would have thought he would have come up with some counter measures against Felix. Could also be he is getting use to his new blade as be no longer sponsored by Xiom so that could be more of a factor than just cause it’s Felix.

The match point was yet another illegal serve by Felix. The umpire sat there and watched...🤷‍♂️

 

[nablaz]

The match point was yet another illegal serve by Felix. The umpire sat there and watched...🤷‍♂️

Why was it illegal? Is it because of your usual "the server was standing besides the table, therefore it must be illegal" argument, or because the serve was actually breaking a written rule (like the toss being hidden, or not vertical enough, etc.)?

 

[FIXPOINT]

Scheduled Matches:
All times are local time.
Live streaming: https://www.youtube.com/wttglobal

Fri, 12th Dec 2025
11:00 T1 XD Group2 LIM(KOR)/SHIN(KOR) - ROBLES(ESP)/XIAO(ESP)
11:35 T1 XD Group1 LIN(CHN)/KUAI(CHN) - SHAH(IND)/CHITALE(IND)
12:10 T1 WS QF CHEN Yi(CHN) - CHEN Xingtong(CHN)
12:55 T1 MS QF WANG Chuqin(CHN) - Alexis LEBRUN(FRA)
13:40 T1 WS QF JOO Cheonhui(KOR) - WANG Manyu(CHN)
18:00 T1 XD Group1 WANG(CHN)/SUN(CHN) - WONG(HKG)/DOO(HKG)
18:35 T1 XD Group2 MATSUSHIMA(JPN)/HARIMOTO(JPN) - CALDERANO(BRA)/TAKAHASHI(BRA)
19:10 T1 WS QF KUAI Man(CHN) - Satsuki ODO(JPN)
19:55 T1 MS QF Truls MOREGARD(SWE) - LIN Yun-Ju(TPE)
20:40 T1 WS QF SUN Yingsha(CHN) - Miyu NAGASAKI(JPN)

Sat, 13th Dec 2025
14:40 T1 MS QF Tomokazu HARIMOTO(JPN) - Felix LEBRUN(FRA)
15:25 T1 MS QF XIANG Peng(CHN) - LIN Shidong(CHN)
19:30 T1 WS SF -
20:15 T1 WS SF -

 

[Metaxa]

Why was it illegal? Is it because of your usual "the server was standing besides the table, therefore it must be illegal" argument, or because the serve was actually breaking a written rule (like the toss being hidden, or not vertical enough, etc.)?

Even two errors, namely a slanted throw of more than 25° that was clearly visible, and as was often the case with the brothers, the serve was delivered above the table instead of behind "the baseline".

To be clear, not all services are illegal if the player is standing next to the table. There are players who stand with one leg next to the table, but there are many players who sit almost completely next to the table. This allows them to easily gain an advantage because the ball is then served above the table and their playing field is reduced, making their third ball a “piece of cake.”

 

[nablaz]

Even two errors, namely a slanted throw of more than 25° that was clearly visible, and as was often the case with the brothers, the serve was delivered above the table instead of behind "the baseline".

About the first part: sure, I agree that Felix's serves are often dubious regarding verticality of the toss. I'm sure that, if this was called more often, he'd have to adjust accordingly (as he does, albeit for just a few points, when he gets called on the specific subject). I fully understand this part of your argument, for reference.
As for the second part: you can just check the serve in slow motion (YouTube has this useful feature of slowing down the video feed, or you can also stop at any given time and use the "," and "." keys to go backwards and forwards photogram-by-photogram if you prefer) and you will see that both the toss and the contact point are well behind the end of the table. Therfore, I think you should/could check more carefully before making a claim as if it was an objective truth on the matter.

 

[FIXPOINT]

WTT Finals Hong Kong 2025 WS R16

WTT Finals Hong Kong 2025 MS R16

 

[JackJohnson]

The match point was yet another illegal serve by Felix. The umpire sat there and watched...🤷‍♂️

Is there no TTR at this event?

 

[backspacer]

Is there no TTR at this event?

There is. Hugo used it for an edge/side ball situation.

 

[chandyrandy]

Holy s*it you were a prophet! Sora did go 3-1 against WCQ. Unfortunately, God didn't tell you it would be a best of 7.

He has forsaken me

 

[joshmak10]

Would be interesting to know who he would have played under the old and new formats and whether he has just played badly or has been unlucky with the draw. This year was clearly a bad draw.

All of Hugo's first round exits:
2025: Lost to Felix (bad draw)
2024: Lost to Jang Woojin (played badly imo, JWJ last win against Hugo before that was in 2014)
2023: Lost to Aruna: (played badly, choked a 2-0 lead and has never lost to him prior to this)
2022: Lost to Moregard (bad draw against a WR3 Moregard, but also lost 3-1 which was a bit surprising)

 

[NextLevel]

All of Hugo's first round exits:
2025: Lost to Felix (bad draw)
2024: Lost to Jang Woojin (played badly imo, JWJ last win against Hugo before that was in 2014)
2023: Lost to Aruna: (played badly, choked a 2-0 lead and has never lost to him prior to this)
2022: Lost to Moregard (bad draw against a WR3 Moregard, but also lost 3-1 which was a bit surprising)

For the losses i dont mean whether he literally played badly or not though I dont think that would change your assessments but whether the opponent was lower or higher seeded than he would have played had the draw been seeded as it used to be before WTT.

 

[joshmak10]

For the losses i dont mean whether he literally played badly or not though I dont think that would change your assessments but whether the opponent was lower or higher seeded than he would have played had the draw been seeded as it used to be before WTT.

Ah I see, but Hugo was higher seeded in the 2022 and 2023 first round losses by a comfortable margin, JWJ was the 13th seed (Hugo 5th seed) and Quadri 16th seed (Hugo 5th seed). I'm too lazy to try and see who he wouldve played those years under the 1st plays 16th format tho lol.

 

[NextLevel]

Ah I see, but Hugo was higher seeded in the 2022 and 2023 first round losses by a comfortable margin, JWJ was the 13th seed (Hugo 5th seed) and Quadri 16th seed (Hugo 5th seed). I'm too lazy to try and see who he wouldve played those years under the 1st plays 16th format tho lol.

Yes those are bad losses since 5th should play 12th so it doesn't affect your analysis. This year is a different thing entirely.

 

[joshmak10]

Yes those are bad losses since 5th should play 12th so it doesn't affect your analysis. This year is a different thing entirely.

This year just was some really bad luck in the draw for the high rated players. Like why is 3 playing 6, 1 playing 8, and 2 playing 7, yet 12 plays 13, 11 plays 14, and 9 plays 10? Truls and Tomo were the only ones who had somehwat proper draws.

 

[NextLevel]

This year just was some really bad luck in the draw for the high rated players. Like why is 3 playing 6, 1 playing 8, and 2 playing 7, yet 12 plays 13, 11 plays 14, and 9 plays 10? Truls and Tomo were the only ones who had somehwat proper draws.

I suspect they haven't always seeded just 4. But maybe not. In any case, seeding 4 makes this a possibility. All bets are off.

 

[joshmak10]

I suspect they haven't always seeded just 4. But maybe not. In any case, seeding 4 makes this a possibility. All bets are off.

Maybe they wanted more variability and give chances for the Gauzys, Linds, and AJHs to make it through as the lower seeded players. They certainly got that this year. There are pros and cons of seeding only 4 and the 1 plays 16 format.

 

[Oliverpool]

There is. Hugo used it for an edge/side ball situation.

and he had one unused challenge that he did not utilise as well. I mean if we want to talk about illegal serves, Hugo had alot of short forehand serves which I am sure is also borderline hidden. Felix lost 4-5 points directly from those similar serves. Maybe the solution for this is not TTR but really a full revamp of service rules. I am guessing, but its just me, like in many other games like Soccer, some rules are not made clear so that there will be talking points. It is just a way to drum up news and counterpoints in games for the next few days.

 

[Oliverpool]

I suspect they haven't always seeded just 4. But maybe not. In any case, seeding 4 makes this a possibility. All bets are off.

I mean this is a "champions" tournament of which only top 16 qualify. So its pretty much the best of the best. Pretty different in terms of the quality of opponents even in Smash tournaments where the top 64 qualify. Then you probably may not want the top 8 to meet in the round of 16.

Also with more seeded players, I noticed that we tend to see the "same" few players playing against each other. In the champions, we seem to get much different match ups.