Technique correction - Trying to Fix my FH backstroke + hitting through the sponge

[Zezima]

Todays training session was so bad. Doing system training with a 800 and then 1200 rated and only 15min with a 1500 is just not cutting it for me.

I was collecting balls 80% of the time only did 1 awkward topspin cutting the quality down so we can have more than 1 ball exchange..

I actually lost every match later to 1200 rated young players who dont give a fuck.
I just had no feeling when topspinning in the match since the warmup and system training if you can call it that even was so bad..
Focus was on me serving him pushing back then fh opening and then shortening the stroke against block. In 10min he blocked maybe 10 times and out of 10 times I hit the folllowing as winner maybe 5 times. Its just too low sample size..
Played like 5 matches and they were all catastrophic. It was like I know what the mistakes were but I am doing nothing to fix it..

This club has the best hall also usually apart from toda also many trainingsballs. Just missing good players to train with..

I actually think todays training hurt me more than any benefit. I don't mind having bad days but it just stressing me out now since there are not many days left for the tournament..

Sorry for the rant had to get it out of the system.

 

[NextLevel]

Todays training session was so bad. Doing system training with a 800 and then 1200 rated and only 15min with a 1500 is just not cutting it for me.

I was collecting balls 80% of the time only did 1 awkward topspin cutting the quality down so we can have more than 1 ball exchange..

I actually lost every match later to 1200 rated young players who dont give a fuck.
I just had no feeling when topspinning in the match since the warmup and system training if you can call it that even was so bad..
Focus was on me serving him pushing back then fh opening and then shortening the stroke against block. In 10min he blocked maybe 10 times and out of 10 times I hit the folllowing as winner maybe 5 times. Its just too low sample size..
Played like 5 matches and they were all catastrophic. It was like I know what the mistakes were but I am doing nothing to fix it..

This club has the best hall also usually apart from toda also many trainingsballs. Just missing good players to train with..

I actually think todays training hurt me more than any benefit. I don't mind having bad days but it just stressing me out now since there are not many days left for the tournament..

Sorry for the rant had to get it out of the system.

When you train with a player who can't block your regular loops, if they are actually trying to block, you have to pick between power and consistency. You can't put all the responsibility on them if they are trying to block but cannot but you need to get your reps in. You need to find your form and reduce the power until you get your reps in. Compromises must be made between power and consistency. I tend to make them in favor of consistency and try to get into position to loop every ball, assuming the lower rated is really trying to block and just not slapping the ball all over the place. You might not be able to power loop every ball but putting a few on the table to get the chance opportunities is better than playing at a pace you never warmed up to play at. You are also allowed to tell them what you want as long as they are not trying to be annoying.

 

[NetProphet]

Todays training session was so bad. Doing system training with a 800 and then 1200 rated and only 15min with a 1500 is just not cutting it for me.

I was collecting balls 80% of the time only did 1 awkward topspin cutting the quality down so we can have more than 1 ball exchange..

I actually lost every match later to 1200 rated young players who dont give a fuck.
I just had no feeling when topspinning in the match since the warmup and system training if you can call it that even was so bad..
Focus was on me serving him pushing back then fh opening and then shortening the stroke against block. In 10min he blocked maybe 10 times and out of 10 times I hit the folllowing as winner maybe 5 times. Its just too low sample size..
Played like 5 matches and they were all catastrophic. It was like I know what the mistakes were but I am doing nothing to fix it..

This club has the best hall also usually apart from toda also many trainingsballs. Just missing good players to train with..

I actually think todays training hurt me more than any benefit. I don't mind having bad days but it just stressing me out now since there are not many days left for the tournament..

Sorry for the rant had to get it out of the system.

Hey, you turned up!
It's another night you were there, commitment, followed through and dedicated to improving. There will be nights like this but keep going.
And don't stress about the tournament if you can help it, you have lots of practice done so it looks to me that you are ready to show your level.
You may wish (was we all do) that your level was higher but I expect you'll surprise a few people on the day.
Enjoy it!

 

[NextLevel]

Hey, you turned up!
It's another night you were there, commitment, followed through and dedicated to improving. There will be nights like this but keep going.
And don't stress about the tournament if you can help it, you have lots of practice done so it looks to me that you are ready to show your level.
You may wish (was we all do) that your level was higher but I expect you'll surprise a few people on the day.
Enjoy it!

Good point, and there's another point I forgot to make:

It is dangerous to go through a period of intense training and expect your training to show up in a nearby tournament. Sometimes, the lag in improvement can be as much as 6 months.

 

[Zezima]

When you train with a player who can't block your regular loops, if they are actually trying to block, you have to pick between power and consistency. You can't put all the responsibility on them if they are trying to block but cannot but you need to get your reps in. You need to find your form and reduce the power until you get your reps in. Compromises must be made between power and consistency. I tend to make them in favor of consistency and try to get into position to loop every ball, assuming the lower rated is really trying to block and just not slapping the ball all over the place. You might not be able to power loop every ball but putting a few on the table to get the chance opportunities is better than playing at a pace you never warmed up to play at. You are also allowed to tell them what you want as long as they are not trying to be annoying.

I was warming up with the 800 not even talking about the spray on the entire table. Also we are talking about about warmup loops here. My warmup loops is like 40-50% of my max power.
Just doing drives is not doing it for me. I also play my topspins like a passive player in match so I how should I transition it there if I have to play even slower than my topspins in matches??

Whatever I will try to forget this session asap. On friday one day before I can get my brother in for some multiball atleast.

 

[Zezima]

Good point, and there's another point I forgot to make:

It is dangerous to go through a period of intense training and expect your training to show up in a nearby tournament. Sometimes, the lag in improvement can be as much as 6 months.

Idk a month of focus technique and each session it feels like I do something different and try out a different thing like the recent grip change. And yet I am too eager to make my loops look as good as franziskas for example within a month timeframe...
I understand it takes years maybe even not enough in this lifetime but it just feels bad still and there are like 1000 different strokes at different timings and serves etc. Like what aspect should I even focus on.

1month I focused on powerlooping and right now it feels like my rallies shortened a lot aswell.
It makes sense first of all I stopped caring about trainingsmatches outcome so I am just limittesting. 2nd of all it feels bad if you systemtrain and in the match the consistency is not there yet even though some shots were straight up winners.

If its life or death I would still default to my slower spinny loops.. I wonder how I will decide in the tournament. After all the poweloops dont net you double points or anything. What matters more is just getting points and I have that in the back off the mind that I should give my opp also a chance to do mistakes..

I am also set for the k.o phase in B event. So I wont play group matches. Tournament starts at 9:00. I dont know if I should go there at 8:00 do one hour warmup then wait 3,5h for my match to start? Is that even worth it? It will be hard to warmup since all tables will be full till then they said before we play k.o phase they will let us warmup for 15-25min but thats too short for me... but sitting in the hall for 3h is also taking a toll on your concentration

 

[dingyibvs]

I was warming up with the 800 not even talking about the spray on the entire table. Also we are talking about about warmup loops here. My warmup loops is like 40-50% of my max power.
Just doing drives is not doing it for me. I also play my topspins like a passive player in match so I how should I transition it there if I have to play even slower than my topspins in matches??

Whatever I will try to forget this session asap. On friday one day before I can get my brother in for some multiball atleast.

800 may be a bit too low to practice with you, but I would think a 1200 TTR player would be able to give you some good practice.

I largely agree with @NextLevel's points, but even besides that, it's no use to stress over something you can't control. Best to try to make an omelette out of a broken egg. You can use their random spray as a practice, for example, for footwork and FH/BH transitions.

Your passive topspins in matches is a technique/footwork issue, not an issue with how much hard you hit with. Your improvements lately are more due to improved technique, so perhaps you can try maintaining that technique while tuning down the power to a bare minimum while increasing your consistency. You can also try to land your shots on one small spot on the table instead of a whole side. That'll help your partner block better as well.

Frankly, in the video where you were practicing against the older guy in blue, you were looping way too hard for practice. Not only were the shots too powerful, placement was also all over the place. It'd be tough for anyone near your level to block them.

 

[NextLevel]

Idk a month of focus technique and each session it feels like I do something different and try out a different thing like the recent grip change. And yet I am too eager to make my loops look as good as franziskas for example within a month timeframe...
I understand it takes years maybe even not enough in this lifetime but it just feels bad still and there are like 1000 different strokes at different timings and serves etc. Like what aspect should I even focus on.

1month I focused on powerlooping and right now it feels like my rallies shortened a lot aswell.
It makes sense first of all I stopped caring about trainingsmatches outcome so I am just limittesting. 2nd of all it feels bad if you systemtrain and in the match the consistency is not there yet even though some shots were straight up winners.

If its life or death I would still default to my slower spinny loops.. I wonder how I will decide in the tournament. After all the poweloops dont net you double points or anything. What matters more is just getting points and I have that in the back off the mind that I should give my opp also a chance to do mistakes..

I am also set for the k.o phase in B event. So I wont play group matches. Tournament starts at 9:00. I dont know if I should go there at 8:00 do one hour warmup then wait 3,5h for my match to start? Is that even worth it? It will be hard to warmup since all tables will be full till then they said before we play k.o phase they will let us warmup for 15-25min but thats too short for me... but sitting in the hall for 3h is also taking a toll on your concentration

Improvement in TT is hard - you spend a lot of time looping and getting tougher and then you find out that it was the chance to train with that 2200 player and block his loops that really improved your game as you blocked down all your opponents to win the title...

But seriously, it doesn't matter how you choose to play as long as you choose it, it is just dangerous to place high expectations on your game as a result of a good/great/hard training period. The level will come out eventually, but when it does is what Christians call God's time, which may or may not be the same as your desired time. And the pressure of the expectations can make you play like trash, even when your overall level is really fine.

I have heard from multiple people that Marcos Freitas has the most powerful practice loops in the training hall. People who see him hit the ball in the hall always say he looks like the favorite to win the tournament. Then you watch his matches and just see spin, spin, spin and spin. Then you wonder where all the practice quality went.

Make of that whatever you choose, but if you go the spin route, you are not alone.

 

[Zezima]

800 may be a bit too low to practice with you, but I would think a 1200 TTR player would be able to give you some good practice.

I largely agree with @NextLevel's points, but even besides that, it's no use to stress over something you can't control. Best to try to make an omelette out of a broken egg. You can use their random spray as a practice, for example, for footwork and FH/BH transitions.

Your passive topspins in matches is a technique/footwork issue, not an issue with how much hard you hit with. Your improvements lately are more due to improved technique, so perhaps you can try maintaining that technique while tuning down the power to a bare minimum while increasing your consistency. You can also try to land your shots on one small spot on the table instead of a whole side. That'll help your partner block better as well.

Frankly, in the video where you were practicing against the older guy in blue, you were looping way too hard for practice. Not only were the shots too powerful, placement was also all over the place. It'd be tough for anyone near your level to block them.

Yes against the older dude I was going for 80-100% but atleast I could warm up okeish with him. The Drills purpose was to end the point wven though he knew which side I was gonna loop. This helps me train my brain that I don't have to try conceal my placement and end up with a broken technique(this I want to work later on) Now I just wanted to give myself that confidence to loop with so much quality that even though they know where I am gonna loop it doesn't matter.

If my legs are ok today I will give it another shot today in a different club. I just can't deal with the spray and only getting every 10th ball to hit when I want to only think about technique at the very beginning. I am not good enough yet to focus on footwork and technique in warmup.

I actually want to do this 10+ loop vs block challenge. Some even say you have to do 100 and restart if you make a mistake. That would be impossible right now haha.

Improvement in TT is hard - you spend a lot of time looping and getting tougher and then you find out that it was the chance to train with that 2200 player and block his loops that really improved your game as you blocked down all your opponents to win the title...

But seriously, it doesn't matter how you choose to play as long as you choose it, it is just dangerous to place high expectations on your game as a result of a good/great/hard training period. The level will come out eventually, but when it does is what Christians call God's time, which may or may not be the same as your desired time. And the pressure of the expectations can make you play like trash, even when your overall level is really fine.

I have heard from multiple people that Marcos Freitas has the most powerful practice loops in the training hall. People who see him hit the ball in the hall always say he looks like the favorite to win the tournament. Then you watch his matches and just see spin, spin, spin and spin. Then you wonder where all the practice quality went.

Make of that whatever you choose, but if you go the spin route, you are not alone.

Not sure if I understood that 2200 thing.

I already hate the draws for the A Event. If I come out of groups as first I have to play against long pips who cuts from top to down with his pips and has a spinny low arc topspin. Or I go 2nd and get our best player who also plays long pips but plays the safest appearently and beats you with control.

Not sure why I wrote that now but what I wanted to say is this that I sometimes think to drastically change my tactis during the game. For example I do too many unforced errors. And think about just staying close to the table and drive and block the balls back or I keep trying to loop and loop and hope my loops eventually come. Since the loop tactic seems better for longterm I went for that route. But I keep wondering if that other strategy would have worked.

My loop and drive are still too different. They don't look similiar. Drive my racket head is diagonal up. My loop its looking almost down. My forearm in loop is more sideways open sometimes even behind my elbow. My drive the forearm is always infront of the elbow.

I just realized I should work on this and do a drill like 1 drive next is topspin with the long motion.

Then another drill where I drive let him do a more active drive/topspin and use the shortened topspin motion. So the transition is more fluent on these 2 strokes for me.

I am just too hard on myself so I can easily get demotivated as fast as getting motivated since I am also quite short term focused oriented. Without the tournament I wouldnt have cared as much. Its not even the tournament per se but the fact that I was training with worse players than me(except once) and have to play vs better players than me so I don't feel prepared at all.

Also if you were in my shoes would you go at 8am warmup for 1h at the table then wait 3,5h for the first game or come 3,5h later around 11:00 and warmup only for 15min?
I can also do both warmup 1h then wait 3,5h and then warmup 15min.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes against the older dude I was going for 80-100% but atleast I could warm up okeish with him. The Drills purpose was to end the point wven though he knew which side I was gonna loop. This helps me train my brain that I don't have to try conceal my placement and end up with a broken technique(this I want to work later on) Now I just wanted to give myself that confidence to loop with so much quality that even though they know where I am gonna loop it doesn't matter.

If my legs are ok today I will give it another shot today in a different club. I just can't deal with the spray and only getting every 10th ball to hit when I want to only think about technique at the very beginning. I am not good enough yet to focus on footwork and technique in warmup.

I actually want to do this 10+ loop vs block challenge. Some even say you have to do 100 and restart if you make a mistake. That would be impossible right now haha.




Not sure if I understood that 2200 thing.

I already hate the draws for the A Event. If I come out of groups as first I have to play against long pips who cuts from top to down with his pips and has a spinny low arc topspin. Or I go 2nd and get our best player who also plays long pips but plays the safest appearently and beats you with control.

Not sure why I wrote that now but what I wanted to say is this that I sometimes think to drastically change my tactis during the game. For example I do too many unforced errors. And think about just staying close to the table and drive and block the balls back or I keep trying to loop and loop and hope my loops eventually come. Since the loop tactic seems better for longterm I went for that route. But I keep wondering if that other strategy would have worked.

My loop and drive are still too different. They don't look similiar. Drive my racket head is diagonal up. My loop its looking almost down. My forearm in loop is more sideways open sometimes even behind my elbow. My drive the forearm is always infront of the elbow.

I just realized I should work on this and do a drill like 1 drive next is topspin with the long motion.

Then another drill where I drive let him do a more active drive/topspin and use the shortened topspin motion. So the transition is more fluent on these 2 strokes for me.

I am just too hard on myself so I can easily get demotivated as fast as getting motivated since I am also quite short term focused oriented. Without the tournament I wouldnt have cared as much. Its not even the tournament per se but the fact that I was training with worse players than me(except once) and have to play vs better players than me so I don't feel prepared at all.

Also if you were in my shoes would you go at 8am warmup for 1h at the table then wait 3,5h for the first game or come 3,5h later around 11:00 and warmup only for 15min?
I can also do both warmup 1h then wait 3,5h and then warmup 15min.

You are young, warm up both times as long as it is not affecting other important things.

Playing well in TT is not so much about effort but about sharpness. When you have put in the work to get to a playing level, when your body is comfortable, it just express itself. Finding ways to get on track when you are off is key. But it is never as simple as trying harder. Generally, finding and focusing on something specific that you can really control (breathing, use of the feet) tends to bring you back into focus better.

The 2200 thing is was that exposure to higher level players tends to result in improvement, but it is often just about being able to control higher quality balls and respond to faster opponents and less about being able to do more powerful offensive things which is what we usually focus on when we train with them.

 

[Zezima]

You are young, warm up both times as long as it is not affecting other important things.

Playing well in TT is not so much about effort but about sharpness. When you have put in the work to get to a playing level, when your body is comfortable, it just express itself. Finding ways to get on track when you are off is key. But it is never as simple as trying harder. Generally, finding and focusing on something specific that you can really control (breathing, use of the feet) tends to bring you back into focus better.

The 2200 thing is was that exposure to higher level players tends to result in improvement, but it is often just about being able to control higher quality balls and respond to faster opponents and less about being able to do more powerful offensive things which is what we usually focus on when we train with them.

Hmm yeah it would def make me feel better. I can go out of the hall and go eat something for breakfast.

That 1800 player I trained with top 3 in the county pointwise said in that video vs the oldie he just watched first minute said my strokes are too long I have to shorten it even though I was landing the balls on the table where he couldnt return it back. Maybe I am using too much power right now and have to dial back?

Should I go for slower loops with the same technique and just go for reps? Would that be better than just having 1 max 2 ball exchanges? I cant change my trainingspartner thats why. Maybe after the tournament I micht have one. I still didnt get one training with that one player. He was sick than sick again then he was on vacation and I was at camp and since then we didn't talk yet.

 

[NextLevel]

Hmm yeah it would def make me feel better. I can go out of the hall and go eat something for breakfast.

That 1800 player I trained with top 3 in the county pointwise said in that video vs the oldie he just watched first minute said my strokes are too long I have to shorten it even though I was landing the balls on the table where he couldnt return it back. Maybe I am using too much power right now and have to dial back?

Should I go for slower loops with the same technique and just go for reps? Would that be better than just having 1 max 2 ball exchanges? I cant change my trainingspartner thats why. Maybe after the tournament I micht have one. I still didnt get one training with that one player. He was sick than sick again then he was on vacation and I was at camp and since then we didn't talk yet.

Play however you feel comfortable. Thinking about what you can or cannot do is a recipe for disaster. What your training has made comfortable is what you will feel comfortable doing. If you see that you have no chance but to get uncomfortable to win, then do that. But it is normal to just play the way you want, see what happens after the first 6 or 7 points, use the first game to scout for weaknesses if you couldn't watch the opponent previously, and then from there, figure out what your primary setups are and how you intend to slow the opponent down with your options out of them (because if you only use one option, the opponent responds faster, but if you are always winning the points, you might not care).

Long strokes usually mean slow recovery but the question is always "am I making the shot and is the opponent bringing it back?"

Part of the reason why forehand play became more limited was because blocking play improved so you couldn't just win the rally with one powerful attack anymore. But usually, when opponents have a disparity in level, it is normal to try to use one shot to win the rally. But this becomes a bad habit when the opponent is good enough to bring the ball back and you have to play more shots - placement and recovery become critical, the former usually more than the latter. But something like this is true at every level. All he is saying is that your recovery is compromised by how you hit the ball, but that is IMHO a shot selection and physical ability decision, not necessarily a good or bad thing by itself. You need to know your technique enough to know what it means to hit multiple shots vs finishing shots. IF your placement of the finishing shot is perfect against a certain level of opponent, it won't matter. But if not, or if the opponent is athletic, then it just doesn't work and you have to deal with the next ball. But these are all decisions you make based on many variables, it is not "oh, I must always spin" or "oh, I must always kill" unless you are just so good at doing either that that is how you want to win all your points.

 

[Zezima]

Play however you feel comfortable. Thinking about what you can or cannot do is a recipe for disaster. What your training has made comfortable is what you will feel comfortable doing. If you see that you have no chance but to get uncomfortable to win, then do that. But it is normal to just play the way you want, see what happens after the first 6 or 7 points, use the first game to scout for weaknesses if you couldn't watch the opponent previously, and then from there, figure out what your primary setups are and how you intend to slow the opponent down with your options out of them (because if you only use one option, the opponent responds faster, but if you are always winning the points, you might not care).

Long strokes usually mean slow recovery but the question is always "am I making the shot and is the opponent bringing it back?"

Part of the reason why forehand play became more limited was because blocking play improved so you couldn't just win the rally with one powerful attack anymore. But usually, when opponents have a disparity in level, it is normal to try to use one shot to win the rally. But this becomes a bad habit when the opponent is good enough to bring the ball back and you have to play more shots - placement and recovery become critical, the former usually more than the latter. But something like this is true at every level. All he is saying is that your recovery is compromised by how you hit the ball, but that is IMHO a shot selection and physical ability decision, not necessarily a good or bad thing by itself. You need to know your technique enough to know what it means to hit multiple shots vs finishing shots. IF your placement of the finishing shot is perfect against a certain level of opponent, it won't matter. But if not, or if the opponent is athletic, then it just doesn't work and you have to deal with the next ball. But these are all decisions you make based on many variables, it is not "oh, I must always spin" or "oh, I must always kill" unless you are just so good at doing either that that is how you want to win all your points.

My opponents who have higher rating than me are less athletic than me I would say 40+ 50+ age

But they stay on the table in a way that they seem to be able to return any ball I give them placement wise. Even the middle.
Not only that the ball they bring back makes me lose stability. None of then have real killer ending topspins. You feel like you get grinded out. Part of why climbing from here will be even harder for me is that my opp don't make the same mistakes or think about placement as much as me. Its like a 10y old facing an experienced 50y old. I would much prefer 10y vs 10y old if that makes sense. I do seem to have more quality topspins now and would consider my forehand in atleast top 3 in the county. But to win in tabletennis you need more than a good winner. And in short term I know this playstyle will hurt me compared to my overly safe playstyle. But tbh both styles would lose to the higher rated players atm.

I just want to focus on landing some good shots get in the flow and focus only on the next point. Try to find the right balance between risking and playing a safe shot. And dont get stuck pushing back and letting then net the same type of points.

 

[NextLevel]

My opponents who have higher rating than me are less athletic than me I would say 40+ 50+ age

But they stay on the table in a way that they seem to be able to return any ball I give them placement wise. Even the middle.
Not only that the ball they bring back makes me lose stability. None of then have real killer ending topspins. You feel like you get grinded out. Part of why climbing from here will be even harder for me is that my opp don't make the same mistakes or think about placement as much as me. Its like a 10y old facing an experienced 50y old. I would much prefer 10y vs 10y old if that makes sense. I do seem to have more quality topspins now and would consider my forehand in atleast top 3 in the county. But to win in tabletennis you need more than a good winner. And in short term I know this playstyle will hurt me compared to my overly safe playstyle. But tbh both styles would lose to the higher rated players atm.

I just want to focus on landing some good shots get in the flow and focus only on the next point. Try to find the right balance between risking and playing a safe shot. And dont get stuck pushing back and letting then net the same type of points.

Making the opponent move is a skill. They have gotten good at it because they realize that if they don't do it early you will have an easier time during the point making them move. You are still in the mindset of fighting with fitness and vigor so you want to outmuscle everyone. IT takes experience, age and practice to get to where those guys are though if you had more time and trained more with better players, you would try to win more points within serve and return where these things are critical and fewer with power topspins.

The funny thing is that generating power without becoming physically stronger usually means you are compromising recovery. Which means a block is more likely to get you off balance. Which counterintuitively makes you play worse against the players who you are trying to beat - the ones you felt blocked your topspin easily lol. Because even if harder to block, all they have to make is one block now. When your topspin was easier to block, it was annoying to play 3-4-10 but you could do that because they just blocked. It was really being smart about placement and going for winners in that framework that was the key not hitting harder because you already hit a decent ball.

IMHO, when you start serving and returning with the goal of getting the opponent out of position or frustrating their anticipation, you have ascended to a higher level of table tennis, Any player who favors using one side of his paddle to return the ball is susceptible to serve/third ball combinations and the third ball can be a well placed push, not an attack. One of the reasons why more powerful topspin doesn't usually raise your level is that most points are won by creating opportunity, and creating opportunity is rarely tied to power, the only time power changes the balance is when the opportunity is created by the existence of power and that is not quite what you are practicing.

 

[pong99]

"My opponents who have higher rating than me are less athletic than me I would say 40+ 50+ age

But they stay on the table in a way that they seem to be able to return any ball I give them placement wise. Even the middle.
Not only that the ball they bring back makes me lose stability. None of then have real killer ending topspins."

The title of this thread is about technique correction. What is your actual goal? If it is to be a better match player then you should examine time and resource allocation.

Are you spending too much time in perfecting form versus being about to read the table, adapt, and win points?

For tall, lanky players, watch some videos of Vladimir Samsonov. Watch how he links serving, short game, placement into attacking. See how efficient and compact his topspins are even though he's a tall player.

 

[dingyibvs]

"My opponents who have higher rating than me are less athletic than me I would say 40+ 50+ age

But they stay on the table in a way that they seem to be able to return any ball I give them placement wise. Even the middle.
Not only that the ball they bring back makes me lose stability. None of then have real killer ending topspins."

The title of this thread is about technique correction. What is your actual goal? If it is to be a better match player then you should examine time and resource allocation.

Are you spending too much time in perfecting form versus being about to read the table, adapt, and win points?

For tall, lanky players, watch some videos of Vladimir Samsonov. Watch how he links serving, short game, placement into attacking. See how efficient and compact his topspins are even though he's a tall player.

Good point too. I've been on a similar journey as @Zezima, and I'm pretty clear about what my goal is, which is technique improvement. There are many steps between improved technique to improved match results, and if you don't work on those then the improvement in technique won't translate to match results at all.

On a separate note, I think the higher level player is right in that the motion is a bit too big. It's not just recovery would be slower, it's also that the backswing is rather big. In real game situations you don't know what your opponent's return is gonna be so you'll have far less time to prepare and may very well not have the time to do a big backswing.

 

[Zezima]

Good point too. I've been on a similar journey as @Zezima, and I'm pretty clear about what my goal is, which is technique improvement. There are many steps between improved technique to improved match results, and if you don't work on those then the improvement in technique won't translate to match results at all.

On a separate note, I think the higher level player is right in that the motion is a bit too big. It's not just recovery would be slower, it's also that the backswing is rather big. In real game situations you don't know what your opponent's return is gonna be so you'll have far less time to prepare and may very well not have the time to do a big backswing.

Which inbetween steps are you talking about?

Pros still go for that large swing. I automatically shorten my swing aswell I am just a "perfectionist" so I somehow care more about hitting perfect topspins all the time when its almost impossible with my age, training environment etc to ever reach that level and even then as some said you need game reading skills ala anticipation where they are gonna play the next ball and react asap..

I dont like watching pro players in terms of tactics etc because they play a different game than us. Pros dont chop a long sidespin serve back. So I will never see them how they answer that kind of ball and even if I see it its just muscle habit hitting. We also dont really have short short duels.

Anyway we are drifting apart from this thread sole purpose which was only forehand technique.

Yesterday despite having some problems in the right upper leg I went to train in a different club. Got a well needed 45min serve practise in. Had someone good blocking me balls for 20min (thank you) usually I swap after 5min or so but he didnt mind being my blocl machine. He also could block actively so that was really helpful to shorten my stroke properly.
Was really consistent apart from a few edge hits showcasing this area needs more work.

Then I played against a player (he has no rating yet but I would assume around 1600 or 1650)
Basically he was super agressive flipping with bad technique but fast hitting with very good placement to the outsides. Was struggeling to cover my wide fh and wide bh. Since he was attacking early I tried to push short back but he hit winners after winners.
So I changed plans. Why am I practising so much fh when I am never creating opportunities to use it?
Figured he is not attacking short to fh serves. And fast backspin to bh serves.
Used that to attack 3rd ball with the fh with my new technique with arm open. Depending on the quality of his push I either went for the winner or went for the spinny loop. Because he is not a weak player he could still block a few back and then I focused on the shorter backswing to keep attacking. Oh and my serve receive got better over the sets so he couldn't just attack.
Thats how I won 3-2 in the end. Got a big motivation boost. Today I will go train for only 1h before the tournament. I think its best to just do control drills no footwork. Dont want to exhaust myself too much. Will also practise some bh opening in case my opp push to my bh after they see my new fh with power.
Need my legs tomorrow.

Maybe I can get some footage from tomorrow if I get someone to film a bit. No promise since its gonna be very busy.
Wish me luck and I will report back after!

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@Zezima Don’t worry too much about the result of the tournament. You’re young and working for the long term. Just play point by point.

Tbh I think you still lack experience and gameplay to win those high ranked players even if it seems you have « better quality attacking shots » it doesn’t mean anything if you’re not able to play them because you’re shut down with serve/receive.

I practice a lot but prefer now to spend more time with serve/receive patterns (ie im the only one serving with 1-2 different serves only) than consistency drills like 2 FH 2 BH which are more to get warmed up and get good feeling (ofc I still try to experiment or focus on something when I do it, I’m not doing the drill without purpose)
- alternatively I like practicing 1-2 returns against the same serve.. But i also work on combinations etc... its a matter of time. 1h or 2h with the coach pass very quickly.

====

I think your FH is a bit too big but the bigger problem is you’re very tall and not making enough effort to lower your stance and play on your toes, knees and shoulder forward despite your age and strong body. You’re not using your leg strength and not brushing the ball enough.

It’s really a bit of everything, form,
Feeling , timing , body strength, use of wrist.
Don’t need to focus on everything at once . Maybe do some slower drills to get it.

 

[dingyibvs]

Which inbetween steps are you talking about?

Pros still go for that large swing. I automatically shorten my swing aswell I am just a "perfectionist" so I somehow care more about hitting perfect topspins all the time when its almost impossible with my age, training environment etc to ever reach that level and even then as some said you need game reading skills ala anticipation where they are gonna play the next ball and react asap..

I dont like watching pro players in terms of tactics etc because they play a different game than us. Pros dont chop a long sidespin serve back. So I will never see them how they answer that kind of ball and even if I see it its just muscle habit hitting. We also dont really have short short duels.

Anyway we are drifting apart from this thread sole purpose which was only forehand technique.

Yesterday despite having some problems in the right upper leg I went to train in a different club. Got a well needed 45min serve practise in. Had someone good blocking me balls for 20min (thank you) usually I swap after 5min or so but he didnt mind being my blocl machine. He also could block actively so that was really helpful to shorten my stroke properly.
Was really consistent apart from a few edge hits showcasing this area needs more work.

Then I played against a player (he has no rating yet but I would assume around 1600 or 1650)
Basically he was super agressive flipping with bad technique but fast hitting with very good placement to the outsides. Was struggeling to cover my wide fh and wide bh. Since he was attacking early I tried to push short back but he hit winners after winners.
So I changed plans. Why am I practising so much fh when I am never creating opportunities to use it?
Figured he is not attacking short to fh serves. And fast backspin to bh serves.
Used that to attack 3rd ball with the fh with my new technique with arm open. Depending on the quality of his push I either went for the winner or went for the spinny loop. Because he is not a weak player he could still block a few back and then I focused on the shorter backswing to keep attacking. Oh and my serve receive got better over the sets so he couldn't just attack.
Thats how I won 3-2 in the end. Got a big motivation boost. Today I will go train for only 1h before the tournament. I think its best to just do control drills no footwork. Dont want to exhaust myself too much. Will also practise some bh opening in case my opp push to my bh after they see my new fh with power.
Need my legs tomorrow.

Maybe I can get some footage from tomorrow if I get someone to film a bit. No promise since its gonna be very busy.
Wish me luck and I will report back after!

Oh so many steps! I usually start by varying the timing, taking the ball a bit earlier as well as later, then varying placement, then change the spin from heavy back to heavy top to everything in between, then add footwork, first left/right, then in/out. Those are just the basic training, and they're mostly additive so most permutations of combinations of those changes need to be done (e.g. early timing, moderate topspin, left/right footwork, toward the opponent BH corner; or late timing, heavy topspin, in/out footwork, toward opponent FH corner).

After the basic training is done, then I'd move on to game-focused training. This is where you actually start to see improvements in your game. You can start simple like a short push f/b an opening loop, or BH/FH transitions. Gradually increase complexity to maybe something like a short push from the short FH corner, then an opening loop from your middle, then a topspin against block from the wide FH. What you spend time on at this point will depend on what you find more difficult to handle in real game situations.

 

[Kopp]

Some say @Zezima looks too stiff in the video. I'm no expert, but if I had to give one simple tip, just imagine you're peeing while you play 🤣 You’re not stiff when you're peeing, right?

P.s. Sorry if this sounds stupid 😅