The Myth of the Perfect Forehand

[NextLevel]

Loved this video.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Good video. But I see some people who do the opposite and focus on getting points and it hinders them. The typical players who are stuck on nearly the same level despite playing 3 times a week for 40 years and the quirky play doesn't make up for the lack of basics and understanding.

 

[Dr Evil]

Good one. Perfect technique is a mirage, but even if you care only about winning matches it's often worth working towards better technique. There's no clean separation between tactics and technique. As ZJK said in a recent video posted here, "The higher the level, the simpler the tactics."

 

[NextLevel]

Good video. But I see some people who do the opposite and focus on getting points and it hinders them. The typical players who are stuck on nearly the same level despite playing 3 times a week for 40 years and the quirky play doesn't make up for the lack of basics and understanding.

I don't think he is saying you should not improve your technique, but that it should be done in the context of playing strategic/tactical shots vs mimicking a perfect player template. For example, you can attack backspin while practicing third ball and improve in that context as opposed to just practicing forehand topspin vs backspin as a shot that has to meet certain technical requirements. The lines are not absolutely clean but you get the drift...

 

[songdavid98]

Good video. But I see some people who do the opposite and focus on getting points and it hinders them. The typical players who are stuck on nearly the same level despite playing 3 times a week for 40 years and the quirky play doesn't make up for the lack of basics and understanding.

Obviously, there is a fine balance between the two, but from what I've seen over the last 13 years:

Club level players who focus on technique end up worse than club level players who focus on winning points:
especially the ones who just "play for exercise" with "good looping technique" ( e.g. older players who stopped trying to win ).
The quirky players you describe actually are the ones who stopped focusing on winning better players.

Ironically, focus on winning also results in technique too.
Q: "How do you spin the ball so much?"
A: "It kept winning, so I kept doing it harder."

Q: "How do you loop so fast?"
A: "It kept winning, so I kept doing it harder."

//////////////////////

As for the message of the video, I agree.
Picture perfect technique is never the goal. The goal is to win points.
Focus on winning results in adaptable, flexible technique whereas focus on textbook-technique prevents you from adapting to different balls.
Anders Lind's Q&A with Heming Hu talks about this at 26:30.

 

[Souther]

I think Bruce Lee applied this thinking to martial arts. First get a strong understanding of the fundamentals and learn from observing many styles. Then take what works best for the individual, and free the individual to get creative.
For example, a short guy with short legs obsessing over taekwondo high kicks is not optimizing martial arts to his body's strengths. He can develop great form with his kick, but it might not be his best option in a real fight.
For table tennis, learn all the basic strokes and learn where your strengths and limitations are. Then be creative by utilizing strategies and tactics that play to your strengths.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Since this thread is about FH, I'll add my two cents worth.

Context:
I have just played in a local tourney last weekend and I video'd my match play. Thereafter, I visually compared my club uncle level play with that of a semi-finalist young man ( late teens or early twenties ) FH loop in that tourney.

My empirical conclusion:

1. Him - Move into position first, that is, footwork first then fh loop. I can see a fraction of a second delay before he fh loops. This is important because one needs to be stable on the ground first before one can execute a high quality loop. From my viewing perspective, I see him having a non-rushed stroke.

2. Me - I am too rushed. I stepped in and fh loop at the same time therefore making many unforced error. I did not ground my stance in stable mechanics first before executing my fh stroke. This is the main difference between a trained competitive player like him and my club uncle style mechanics. That is why sometimes my fh stroke feels like GOD mode and sometimes like a silly club uncle stroke.

 

[latej]

Obviously, there is a fine balance between the two, but from what I've seen over the last 13 years:

Club level players who focus on technique end up worse than club level players who focus on winning points:
especially the ones who just "play for exercise" with "good looping technique" ( e.g. older players who stopped trying to win ).
The quirky players you describe actually are the ones who stopped focusing on winning better players.

...

As for the message of the video, I agree.
Picture perfect technique is never the goal. The goal is to win points.

My experience for the last 7 years, since I returned to the sport, is different.

First, I'd not say that the goal is to win points. That we can say about profis. But for us, amateurs, we can have different goals, and/or mixtures of goals, to have fun, to sweat, to win (yes), to feel good during stroke, to be improving, etc., and mixtures.

Moreover, I don't really see adult players switching levels very often. Let's say we have cca 10 levels, for each level you have say cca 12 registered competition teams (areas grow as you go up). Young players improve, and then they go play higher level. Then there are returning players, who played as kids, those can also switch/improve levels rel. quickly. Then there are players, who are willing to step outside of their comfort zone, and invest time in real improving, which usually involves breaking something old. Those actually want to improve the technique, not necessarily have perfect technique, but improve it. Actually if I think about it, it is a bit sad, when I see the people stay on the same level, because they don't improve the basics. Hence I like the approaches of actually focusing on improving the technique, e.g. what some people here do, like dingyibvs and others. For them winning I think is more like a nice by-product, wanted, but still a by-product... Cheers.

 

[andymagata]

I see many former pro’s that once had perfect technique play ”amateurish”, some play often still and they are in different ages. Seem to suggest that you loose your ”perfect” technique quickly when you stop practising it and fall back to some technique that suits yourself. So - is there any point practising it in the first place?

 

[andymagata]

Good video. But I see some people who do the opposite and focus on getting points and it hinders them. The typical players who are stuck on nearly the same level despite playing 3 times a week for 40 years and the quirky play doesn't make up for the lack of basics and understanding.

It is kind of sad, I mean it is great that they play, but they would have improved so much if they were willing to take advice. Over the years they must have gotten a ton. On the other hand, if they need these sessions on ”autopilot” I salute them. For myself, improvement is a must in any activity.

 

[passifid]

The "perfect" technique is one that works in context of your whole game. somone with pips BH might be able to have a more quirky forehand at a higher level because they don't have the same system.

Focusing on point absolutely makes you worse in the long run if you dont have coaching and play at a club. I have raised my % wins in my division locally from 50% in D1 local to currently 72%.

How? I noted I was too focused on always beating the same 7 players at my club at the same level so I adapted my game to playing them because I thought if I win more I am better right.
No
I realised I was actually playing worse in competitive matches because I was only practising the shots that work in that context, so I changed my equipment to encourage me to play "proper shots" and now i'm doing amazing play better than I ever have but also I loose to players at my club more often because i'm not focused on them as much, this has had the effect of making my shots much more "Standard"

 

[passifid]

also to add, its folly to watch professionals and say "they focus on winning points so I should too" they have coaches for hours each week to improve their technique too they mean quirky stuff like: sometimes serving long or playing a down the line shot here and there as they already have amazing technique and doesnt apply to Dave at the YMCA who cant loop at all.

 

[Zezima]

I think Bruce Lee applied this thinking to martial arts. First get a strong understanding of the fundamentals and learn from observing many styles. Then take what works best for the individual, and free the individual to get creative.
For example, a short guy with short legs obsessing over taekwondo high kicks is not optimizing martial arts to his body's strengths. He can develop great form with his kick, but it might not be his best option in a real fight.
For table tennis, learn all the basic strokes and learn where your strengths and limitations are. Then be creative by utilizing strategies and tactics that play to your strengths.

Right to the core but you have to realize if those basic strokes are efficient enough to give trouble to your opp. If your basic topspin flys so slow and high and gets attacked you might default to just pushing and blocking instead of realizing that you need to improve the quality of your fh lets say.

Its not either technique or tactic you can and should do both. I personally experiment and see how it fits.

I did fall into this exact trap and played matches where I just pushed instead of opening up because I would just lose the point immediately after even though I started attacking but it was a weak one and too slow low quality.

Right now I am developing my fh power and I can see how it changes my game. I dont just default to pushing I have confidence in the quality of my fh loop. And all that because I worked on that specific thing the past months. Is it perfect? Most of the times not. But its powerful enough and hit straight winners even.

In table tennis the height doesn't play as much of a role in terms of not being able to copy a certain style. I am not limited to what a tall player like samsonov, franziska, omar does. I can copy what truls does what harimoto does etc. The other way around aswell. Thats why tabletennis is such a great sport. There is too many possible ways of playing the game. Each different style requires different amount of training and comittment. But the fundamental on how to apply power/spin to the ball is same for everyone. It just looks different.
Before I could loop either with 50% or hit hard 100% and risk making an unforced error.
Now I can go 80% confidently and many many option open up this way.

One other example of this would be my parallel active block with the bh after playing the previous balls diagonal.
I saw my opp is too far in the bh corner so I would play the next ball to the fh. But it was so inconsistent and the ball so slow he would just kill the ball. So I worked on that and now I can hit straight winners parallel.

My point is unless you are an adult with some disabilities... that you should not limit your game but work on your strengths more so in a match you you are not limited by your abilities and bad quality strokes and default to passive playstyle.

Take LYJ as an example. He has to be even more efficient in transfering energy into the ball due to his body than lets say omar. And in his case even that seems not to be enough and he has to go for a faster setup than others.

 

[latej]

I see many former pro’s that once had perfect technique play ”amateurish”, some play often still and they are in different ages. Seem to suggest that you loose your ”perfect” technique quickly when you stop practising it and fall back to some technique that suits yourself.

I think it's perfectly OK that they use what we call "less perfect" technique ;-), when they are older. I think they know what they are doing...

So - is there any point practising it in the first place?

Yeah, is there any point in growing when we'll die?

We play for the moment, and then perhaps for the reflections of that/those moment(s) during some near time afterward...

It is kind of sad, I mean it is great that they play, but they would have improved so much if they were willing to take advice. Over the years they must have gotten a ton. On the other hand, if they need these sessions on ”autopilot” I salute them. For myself, improvement is a must in any activity.

Yes, I want to improve too... But it won't go indefinitely... What then ;-)

And actually, even now, the improvement is a by-product.

Forgive me for being so philosophical, it's evening, third day, each day training and today also snowboarding with my daughter before training, and then some beers... Yes, I guess that "may" be it...