Overall Technique focus

[Zezima]

Struggled most with fh against BS with this technique.
My old technique looks shiet but it feels much more safe and its still spinny. Here I wish I had spinsight to tell the difference.
I also missed a lot I don't know if the robot feeds me inconsistent spin or I just hit at too many different timings or something couldn't tell most of the times why it landed in the net or went far out. Couldn't find the right balance in hitting forward while lifting the ball. Half times I didn't even use wrist..

Also with my bh I like my technique how it looks the wrist and whipping and shortness. Here I only struggle with blade angle or timing. Does this automatically get better the more I practise? Or do I have to actively have to remind myself something?

Fh I struggle the most with keeping a consistent bat angle. In my previous post I would have the racket angle closed and then open right at contact. In these videos it seems like it got better I see barely any racket angle changes. I also don't go too far back with my backstroke and keep it close to my tighs.

My elbow not going enough forwards and maybe even up was another issue. Here its not perfect but I do seem to end my elbow more forwards?


Anything that stands out feel free to tell me with a timestamp.

 

[Amayzde]

Fh I struggle the most with keeping a consistent bat angle. In my previous post I would have the racket angle closed and then open right at contact. In these videos it seems like it got better I see barely any racket angle changes. I also don't go too far back with my backstroke and keep it close to my tighs.

I wouldnt focus too much on your arm movement/racket angle/etc. right now, thats not the core issue. The issue is that your body, specificly your right leg is not contributing thowards your forehand stroke. Your body and legs seem to turn and move, but all this seems to come from the upper body. This becomes more apparent in the FH against BS video.

Here is a video you should checkout:

Another reason you are struggling with FH against BS is because you are way to tense. The first video should be an example of how you should execute a FH, even against BS. Most of the lifting action should be done with the legs, not your shoulder.

What I also find a good guidline is the effort to shotquality ratio. If a forehand against backspin takes 80% effort, but the ball is still barely going over, you are doing it wrong! If you use your legs correctly it should feel effortless to lift the ball over the net.

Struggled most with fh against BS with this technique.
My old technique looks shiet but it feels much more safe and its still spinny. Here I wish I had spinsight to tell the difference.
I also missed a lot I don't know if the robot feeds me inconsistent spin or I just hit at too many different timings or something couldn't tell most of the times why it landed in the net or went far out. Couldn't find the right balance in hitting forward while lifting the ball.

Because the robot feeds you at the exact same rythm and placement. The longer an excecise lasts the more you start playing on auto-pilot mode. At the same time you get fatigued. So not only are you not actively focussing on the incoming ball anymore, but you also become more tired and more tense.

Spinsight wont tell you much. It only tells you how much spin you got. But you can also get lots of spin on a badly executed shot which is a bit of a false tell whether you are doing it right.

 

[Zezima]

I wouldnt focus too much on your arm movement/racket angle/etc. right now, thats not the core issue. The issue is that your body, specificly your right leg is not contributing thowards your forehand stroke. Your body and legs seem to turn and move, but all this seems to come from the upper body. This becomes more apparent in the FH against BS video.

Here is a video you should checkout:

Another reason you are struggling with FH against BS is because you are way to tense. The first video should be an example of how you should execute a FH, even against BS. Most of the lifting action should be done with the legs, not your shoulder.

What I also find a good guidline is the effort to shotquality ratio. If a forehand against backspin takes 80% effort, but the ball is still barely going over, you are doing it wrong! If you use your legs correctly it should feel effortless to lift the ball over the net.


Because the robot feeds you at the exact same rythm and placement. The longer an excecise lasts the more you start playing on auto-pilot mode. At the same time you get fatigued. So not only are you not actively focussing on the incoming ball anymore, but you also become more tired and more tense.

Spinsight wont tell you much. It only tells you how much spin you got. But you can also get lots of spin on a badly executed shot which is a bit of a false tell whether you are doing it right.

Yeah but here I was actively thinking about bat angle etc. Except for backspin exercise. There I always have it very open automatically. Otherwise it would look much worse than shown here.

It does feel like I use a lot of legs because it starts burning a lot but I agree there might be some leakage in the energy transfer. I don't feel my shoulder hurting or anything I keep it only as tense to not backswing further back.
I couldn't tell you when exactly I tense my hand when starting to swing forwards.
Anyway I also hit some out. But I would say mostly into the net. Then again in a match I don't think I ever get a backspin ball like this. Maybe in rare cases the same spin but slower atleast. In matches I only hit into the net if I underestimated the spin and want to kill the ball hitting too much forwards.

Also I watched your video I still don't quite understand the difference. He just hits the ball at the peak while I seem to hit it when it's falling again.
And my forwards motion vs a BS ball makes my stroke inconsistent when the ball is falling(my assumption).

In matches I struggle more after my opening. Even though the other videos look good to me idk why I am not as agressively hitting the balls as I do here.

Right now the other videos rarher than the one vs backspin is more important to me. I want to be very confident to hit them in matches like here.

 

[karupinkun]

On the FH Amayzde already told you the most obvious things. You kinda use you legs, but just for "show". They dont connect to / provide anything to the actual shot.

On BH i feel you just "wobble" around with you wrist. There is no stability in your elbow, no drive of the racket towards the other side and no form of energy gathering pause at the start of your swing. You go down a bit, but dont engage your legs / hip for the shot at all. It feels kinda rushed and might result in inconsistent shot quality.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Watched about 30 seconds - your legs don't provide any power or stability on the loops against push which is why it's inconsistent. Will be even worse in real games when you're forced to move or timing changes.

Still zero acceleration or snap in your arm on both topspin and underspin which is why it is hard to "time" the contact to deliver any quality onto the ball, and which also helps with consistency.

 

[songdavid98]

every forehand is late.
every loop against backspin is late.

try doing it without letting the ball fall down a few centimeters (falling down a few millimeters is fine).

 

[Zezima]

every forehand is late.
every loop against backspin is late.

try doing it without letting the ball fall down a few centimeters (falling down a few millimeters is fine).

This was my observation aswell. But shouldn't I be able to do both? In matches I will be hitting more late than at peak even though I should aim for peak timing.

Would you say my position is right or do I need to be closer to the table when hitting at peak timing?

 

[Zezima]

On the FH Amayzde already told you the most obvious things. You kinda use you legs, but just for "show". They dont connect to / provide anything to the actual shot.

On BH i feel you just "wobble" around with you wrist. There is no stability in your elbow, no drive of the racket towards the other side and no form of energy gathering pause at the start of your swing. You go down a bit, but dont engage your legs / hip for the shot at all. It feels kinda rushed and might result in inconsistent shot quality.

I agree there is energy leakage in the legs and I try to overcompensate with arm. Its like legs give me only 10-20% (only the initial acceleration) on fh

Bh topspins have very good quality though. Very spinny has nice arc and spin if it lands on the table. But I agree it's too lose sometimes and therefore the swingpath is off on those shots I miss.
I do use legs and hips it's very subtle though. More important is to control the loseness here I think. I tried pressing my thumb into the rubber but it doesn't really change anything in stroke quality to me.
You also said no gathering of energy watch in slowmo you will see it better then.
I had the same heavy backspin as with the fh so no way I would be able to lift that ball with heavy topspin. So have to disagree with you here on this point

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Grrrrr.....

where powar?
where explosiveness?
where acceleration?

none at all.... grrrrr!

if cannot do all above;

Spoiler: then just go cheat mode

Zyre03(tm) make every shot an instagramable shot

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Bh topspins have very good quality though. Very spinny has nice arc and spin if it lands on the table. But I agree it's too lose sometimes and therefore the swingpath is off on those shots I miss.
I do use legs and hips it's very subtle though. More important is to control the loseness here I think. I tried pressing my thumb into the rubber but it doesn't really change anything in stroke quality to me.
You also said no gathering of energy watch in slowmo you will see it better then.
I had the same heavy backspin as with the fh so no way I would be able to lift that ball with heavy topspin. So have to disagree with you here on this point

Doesn't seem like anything outstanding in terms of quality to me, and nevertheless doesn't matter when you're missing half of them in your selected 1 minute clip of a drill where you're getting the same ball to the same spot and still missing half.

The issue with the consistency remains the same thing as was told to you (not your "swingpath") last time but its your choice to keep on ignoring it.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Struggled most with fh against BS with this technique.
My old technique looks shiet but it feels much more safe and its still spinny. Here I wish I had spinsight to tell the difference.
I also missed a lot I don't know if the robot feeds me inconsistent spin or I just hit at too many different timings or something couldn't tell most of the times why it landed in the net or went far out. Couldn't find the right balance in hitting forward while lifting the ball. Half times I didn't even use wrist..

Also with my bh I like my technique how it looks the wrist and whipping and shortness. Here I only struggle with blade angle or timing. Does this automatically get better the more I practise? Or do I have to actively have to remind myself something?

Fh I struggle the most with keeping a consistent bat angle. In my previous post I would have the racket angle closed and then open right at contact. In these videos it seems like it got better I see barely any racket angle changes. I also don't go too far back with my backstroke and keep it close to my tighs.

My elbow not going enough forwards and maybe even up was another issue. Here its not perfect but I do seem to end my elbow more forwards?


Anything that stands out feel free to tell me with a timestamp.

you're too tense. your feet are anchored. even if its a robot, each ball may be a little bit different by a few cm and you need to make micro-adjusments. I'm pretty sure if you just relax a bit more and reset your feet between each ball as if you're ready to move anywhere, then you'll be more consistent and produce more quality.

For me it makes a HUGE difference when i play against BS, notably choppers.

its personal but I try to have my shoulders and elbow a bit more forward which creates space to use more wrist.

you're missing more than 60% of the ball, the result is very poor. if you start missing so much. better to pause and focus more.

 

[Zezima]

Grrrrr.....

where powar?
where explosiveness?
where acceleration?

none at all.... grrrrr!

if cannot do all above;

Spoiler: then just go cheat mode

View attachment 40511

Zyre03(tm) make every shot an instagramable shot

Send me a sheet 😂

 

[Zezima]

you're too tense. your feet are anchored. even if its a robot, each ball may be a little bit different by a few cm and you need to make micro-adjusments. I'm pretty sure if you just relax a bit more and reset your feet between each ball as if you're ready to move anywhere, then you'll be more consistent and produce more quality.

For me it makes a HUGE difference when i play against BS, notably choppers.

Can you explain more what you mean by tense? My arm is lose and I just hold it just enough to be not wobbly. If I am any looser than this it goes straight into the net.
This is the problem with getting online feedback. It's just too slow.

I could try that with the feet.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Can you explain more what you mean by tense? My arm is lose and I just hold it just enough to be not wobbly. If I am any looser than this it goes straight into the net.
This is the problem with getting online feedback. It's just too slow.

I could try that with the feet.

your feet are anchored. youre not on your toes and your feet is not moving at all. thats the main problem. Every ball is a little bit different. Your feet should be at a slightly different place for each different ball. Footwork is the most important thing in TT

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

On your BH against DS,

You squat your legs = good
You use your wrist like a wiper = good
You forget to explode your legs up together with your wrist wiper motion = no good = your kinetic chain is broken = disconnected = no working in tandem = shitty bh.
View attachment 956f9f3a-bde1-4394-9afc-84dfabb94087.mp4
Ignore for a moment this U13 player is giving me a half floaty ball with some backspin and focus on the bh stroke. I do the squat and there is a sudden explosion to lift up from the half squat in one continuous motion.
There is something unseen, that is, the tensing up of the core muscle like when doing plank during the whole stroke. It stabilises the it.
As for your bh stroke, you do squat but you never explode upwards in one single motion with your viper wrist motion.

 

[NextLevel]

Struggled most with fh against BS with this technique.
My old technique looks shiet but it feels much more safe and its still spinny. Here I wish I had spinsight to tell the difference.
I also missed a lot I don't know if the robot feeds me inconsistent spin or I just hit at too many different timings or something couldn't tell most of the times why it landed in the net or went far out. Couldn't find the right balance in hitting forward while lifting the ball. Half times I didn't even use wrist..

Also with my bh I like my technique how it looks the wrist and whipping and shortness. Here I only struggle with blade angle or timing. Does this automatically get better the more I practise? Or do I have to actively have to remind myself something?

Fh I struggle the most with keeping a consistent bat angle. In my previous post I would have the racket angle closed and then open right at contact. In these videos it seems like it got better I see barely any racket angle changes. I also don't go too far back with my backstroke and keep it close to my tighs.

My elbow not going enough forwards and maybe even up was another issue. Here its not perfect but I do seem to end my elbow more forwards?


Anything that stands out feel free to tell me with a timestamp.

The whole drill in the first video is misconceived. It is arguably a good start for a beginner, but for match play, it is rubbish and dangerous for an advanced player. In matches, practical considerations dictate that the footwork movement and the backswing need to be combined or one will always be pressed for time. Jumping into place. And then setting up the whole stroke is not what happens in matches or high level play, and you are a good enough player that you should not be practicing stuff that is going to hurt you in matches unless you are just developing new skills from scratch. When moving towards the forehand for a backspin ball, the jump needs to be made into the lunge backswing. When moving for a topspin ball, it depends on how early you need to take and cutoff the ball, you still lunge into a backswing but the ball speed and the need to cut it off often means most of backswing is in the upper body and extremely small and you need to follow through more than backswing to borrow power from the incoming shot and produce the power on the shot you make.

On the shot technique, as long as you are happy with the shot, that is what matters. I don't see the shots producing confident results in matches but T19 is a pretty spinny rubber, it probably allows one to get a way with much more with less effort, though I suspect it will not be as effective vs very good players. So you have to practice more variation in timing attacking the ball. Half long practice to train forearm use and precision on the forehand is far more important that all this stuff.

 

[Lula]

Your ambitions are impressive! With this attitude you will get better with any technique.
Technique is also so relative! All players do differently and coaches focus on different things. Like some others in this thread say, as long as it is good quality and work in match play it is good.

This is what catches my eye:
- arm is never relaxed so get less spin. Also makes it hard to whip the arm fast and get less movement in arm from the body.
- I think you move body okey against topspin. Nowadays i think people rotate the body less since the game is faster. Against backspin i think you could try to push more from the ground, like you are lifting something heavy from the floor.
- i think you can try to imitate a bit how you would throw a ball so far away as possible. Then you plant the feet, push from the floor, get tension in the body down and up, arm first relaxed then tense
- I think your backhand against topspin and backspin looks pretty similar. Could go even more back and forward against topspin, otherwise the ball will only go higher if you play harder(edited this, typo). Feel like some pros, like Falck or Gauzy almost hit the right side of the ball a little, i believe this will help in going forward. Against backspin you need to start the stroke a bit earlier to beat the backspin. You have pretty closed racket angle, this forces you to brush good with forearm but at the same time the ball will go in the net if you are to slow. A safe opening up would be easier if you bent the legs more, drop the racket more down and start the stroke earlier and have a more open racket angle.

But once again, it do not need to be perfect. And what is perfect? I believe many coaches think Schlager is really stiff, Jorgic have a bad backhand technique, Truls hold to much backhandgrip and that it can not work playing short pimple forehand at a pro level like Falck and so on.

Keep up the hard work.

 

[Zezima]

BH Topspin against backspin:
I just realized comparing my stroke online (just compared my bh topspins against BS side by side) that I loop as if I would flick it over the table. Basically I lift my elbow up and also my elbow is ahead of the racket.

They loop with elbow behind. I have to try this out next time. Funny noone mentioned it.

Anyway when I thought I am using my legs it was different. I do go low. I do make space for the ball by rotating my hips. What is clearly missing is using that force to lift the ball. Currently it seems like the that job is done by my forearm whipping too much backwards. Maybe this also makes my stroke so unstable. When I land the balls on the table they are super spinny medium paced. Spinnier than any ball I produce in a match.

Anyway to cut it short for this stroke:

• don't rotate the forearm so much back that the elbow is in front (during backswing before exploding forwards)
• Push off the ground tiny bit (not standing straight but I think about 5cm higher) - This will be very difficult to implement because it seems like my legs freeze during contact in squat motion and only after hitting the ball I am standing up. Not sure how I would fix this without feeling like I can't control the arc.
• racket angle, acceleration, how low I start seems good otherwise. Timing is off sometimes but that comes by putting more hours in.

Everything else looks good. So I will be working on those 2 points.

Fh against BS also needs work but I will analyze it later.

Fh against topspin/block looks really good now. I have that thick contact I was working on these past months. And I get it very frequently aswell so the consistency is going up here. Here I just found that I am backswinging too slow. The Ball sometimes lands on my side and I start to go backwards with my backswing still. This might be fine in a match but I should be practising without this happening.
Also It can be faster acceleration but I was going for a good pace of stroke where I can be quite consistent. Lots of room to improve still. But right now it doesn't help my game to hit a harder topspin compared to my recovery. Unless its a winner..

 

[NextLevel]

They loop with elbow behind. I have to try this out next time. Funny noone mentioned it.

When I told you that this was the only proper way to play a backhand topspin with confidence, you were trying to talk about how my approach to table tennis was close minded and that Dima's technique was too big etc.. So I left you to your own devices. Fortunately for you, you are not as stubborn as your attitude sometimes conveys.

 

[songdavid98]

Would you say my position is right or do I need to be closer to the table when hitting at peak timing?

move your hitting zone more to the front



Your hitting zone is very far back.
Learn to hit forehands ahead of your face.

This was my observation aswell. But shouldn't I be able to do both? In matches I will be hitting more late than at peak even though I should aim for peak timing.

This is some stupid "all lives matter" type of thinking. (i forgot you're not from the U.S. , whatever i'll leave this in)

We all know both are important.
You are just obviously ignoring the peak timing.

EDIT:
You probably hit more late because you just suck at hitting peak.
I know plenty of people who hit more peak because they suck at hitting late.

You might improve at peak timing.
Who knows if you will be hitting more late than peak after your improvement?