My Race Tournaments in Germany

[Zezima]

Hello Guys,
Yesterday it has been a long day for me. After I figured I am not playing as many "important" games per year (only around 80matches per year + 2 Tournaments included here in Austria) I somehow figured why not play tournaments in Germany and in future maybe even in Switzerland if I can find some closer to me.

Anyway.. It was dope the playing field was around my level some higher some lower rated. I also filmed my matches and edited them (took me this entire day from 180min down to 63min) Also had to play my league matches today lost both 0-3 losing to 8 and 9 mostly... Whatever that's not what I want to talk about in this Thread. It should be just about my tournament games.

I have been playing with T19 for a week now. Not enough time to adjust but I think I did a good a job still. I started the Tournament with 1453TTR and ended 1474TTR losing 2 very close matches I shouldn't be able to win according to the statistics (picture included).

I played against 3 youngsters. The Zhang brothers(twins?) both around 10y I believe and a girl around 9y. All 3 have surprised me I lost to the brothers only won vs the girl.
Against Felix? I went 17-15 in the 2nd set for me, but I forgot to unpause after 1st set :/ It was prob the best set in the entire tournament.
These brothers also played pretty much the same. They gave me no breathing room even if I played to their backhands they would hit the ball hard like a smash.

The last player I faced was playing with some sriver rubbers and donic desto? very slow. Surprised me a lot didn't give me speed to work with played with placement instead. If it wasn't my 12th game or so I think I would have beaten him even though he is rated 1650 something. I just didn't have the energy to keep attacking and blocking was stupid mostly going into the net.

Efogo was an intersting player. I thought he would clap me because I couldn't block his topspins in warmup. He was super pissed after his loss against me.

vs Christoph it was a mental game aswell. I was so scared about his fh slap that I did my old fh technique with a stiff only arm loop trying to loop hard. I kept thinking if I just go for a relaxed spinny slowish loop he would smack it. Looking back at the video he was actually respecting my topspins. But during the game I remember the 10% he countersmashed so I totally forgot about the 90% that he didn't so I stopped doing what was working..
In the last set after a really good topspin to 8-8 my stupid brain thought it's a good idea to serve to his fh. And the next serve (me expecting a push and I loop for 9-9) he had the courage to loop with his weak bh! But he told me he has played so many races and matches (3x more than me per year) that he is used to these situations and he just goes with this mentality all the time...

vs Maximilian Zhang hmm I don't know I just fucked up too many loops with my fh on the receive. Looping out always. Not much to say otherwise.

positives:
I attacked way more than I am used to
I attacked with bh a lot aswell
I didn't default to pushing with my bh but also opened up a lot
I did more (long) topspin serves (turns out many people struggle with it)
On some points I came back to the table after being on the defense
Looped a lot with spin
Long rallys when I am moving around I have better ball feeling. It's like I am getting more and more feeling.

negatives:
- To keep it short I just seem to have no gameplan most of the time.
- footwork (most of the time clueless)
- going back to old technique if I want too much spin to end the rally with it -> stiffening up so I end up having not even that much spin..
-- more then technique it's a mental problem. My brain has learned to win 98% of the points with the first topspin but it needs to learn to "grind" for the points. So basically get one good with a good placement and spin on the table and then keep up the pressure and win the point with the 2-4th topspin. Don't go hardcore on the 1st topspin.. This one is really hard to practice also because against weaker players I do get the point with the first topspin.
- Feels like I have 1000x different strokes with different timings. I know hitting every single topspin with perfect technique is not possible but still.. Look at the younger brothers or Christoph it looks like as if they have 1 technique and they go all the way through with it...
- Serves. I do too many different ones in the match. Even though it sometimes net me free points I also think it nets them some free points aswell.. Making me have no proper gamestyle?
- I need a identity. Something I should be aiming for like the little brothers or Christoph who has a "one dimensional" game with the fh kill. I need something that works for me or atleast something I should be working for for each future game. Right now it feels like I play random "on the fly". I want to go into the next tournament and tell myself look this is how you should win points etc..

Looking at this 10month old video.

It just feels like I barely did any progress.. This opponent is 1st place in 1 league lower this season 26-1. While I am like 11-22 in the highest one.. But still gameplay wise it's just the same even though I was playing with W968 and D09c here.

More than the technique I think my mentality on how to win points have to change or atleast "broaden" I rely too much on 1 attack only instead of grinding the points like my opponents did against me. Hell even the Zhang brothers do this better than me at the age of just 9... Also fu** EJ.. I lost to sriver donic desto (last dude) and the brothers had R42 both sides with an allround novacell+ something blade... I will give 0 shi** about rubbers till I am atleast 1700-1800TTR prob forever since I have better technique than most people up there.

Tournament link from yesterday:

if anyone knows editing with capcut dm me because this took me the entire day to edit. Prob need some tips..

 

[MORTtheORT]

Heaps better. Still going back too much and too easily, but your shots are considerably better. Plenty of shots where you could of attacked but you don't realise it yet with the low, long balls but it will come as you learn the rubbers. Your shots have more on them and more speed on your normal shots...plus more confidence in your attack. On the right path.

 

[Zezima]

Heaps better. Still going back too much and too easily, but your shots are considerably better. Plenty of shots where you could of attacked but you don't realise it yet with the low, long balls but it will come as you learn the rubbers. Your shots have more on them and more speed on your normal shots...plus more confidence in your attack. On the right path.

I agree. I also need to get out of my comfortzone and hit balls "wrong" and just see what happens to the ball.
Last couple of years it feels like I only loop balls I know very well. And those don't come very often in matches. If I collect more experience with different kind of balls timing etc. I think I will be more willing to loop balls out of my current comfortzone. As you said in the match I don't even realize yet or think I can't do it even though I could technically.

I am planning to play more of these tournaments in the near future but some are very far like 2-3,5h driveway. But maybe I can manage it. I just want to go into these tournaments with a plan no matter if I lose or not eg. Loop all long serves to my bh or stuff like only push once the next one has to be looped or more advanced: if opp loops to my fh I go counter it. Since I don't care about my germany TTR for now and focus on improving it's a good playground for me.

I am still amazed by the kids how they are 0 scared of doing mistakes something I want to adopt aswell.

 

[NextLevel]

The kids put in more hours than you do and are at a height and physical stage where if they don't swing at the ball, the ball will not move. You as a late age adult learner should do more with less for both practical and physical reasons.

The overall flow of the matches is far better. Many of the matches are winnable with disciplined strategies and an attacking game. The opponent that if you play him often will be a good test of your discipline is Christoph. All he is doing is looking aggressively for a loose ball to attack really hard, so all you have to do is raise your spin level and placement to a point where this is not comfortable for him. Then he will either have to do his game at a TTR 1700 level or you will beat him 3-0.

Doing many serves especially in the first game is fine. But at a certain point, the serves needed to be built around forcing the opponent to let you attack or preventing the opponent from making you uncomfortable. I just want the opponent to give me a long ball with backspin. If I am getting that, I will repeat the serve that gets me that or some variant with lighter spin but with varied length and placement 70-80% of the time. If the opponent is not giving me a return I like, I change to aomething else until I get what I want or just lose to a good player.

Remember, Hugo basically has one serve. This is because all he wants is to attack or if not, get the opponent to spin up the ball so he can counter. While there are other ways to win points, once you are getting what you want and your opponent is not changing, it is not a crime to mostly serve the same thing. If rhey don't change and you are winning, there is no reason to change.

 

[Zezima]

The kids put in more hours than you do and are at a height and physical stage where if they don't swing at the ball, the ball will not move. You as a late age adult learner should do more with less for both practical and physical reasons.

The overall flow of the matches is far better. Many of the matches are winnable with disciplined strategies and an attacking game. The opponent that if you play him often will be a good test of your discipline is Christoph. All he is doing is looking aggressively for a loose ball to attack really hard, so all you have to do is raise your spin level and placement to a point where this is not comfortable for him. Then he will either have to do his game at a TTR 1700 level or you will beat him 3-0.

Doing many serves especially in the first game is fine. But at a certain point, the serves needed to be built around forcing the opponent to let you attack or preventing the opponent from making you uncomfortable. I just want the opponent to give me a long ball with backspin. If I am getting that, I will repeat the serve that gets me that or some variant with lighter spin but with varied length and placement 70-80% of the time. If the opponent is not giving me a return I like, I change to aomething else until I get what I want or just lose to a good player.

Remember, Hugo basically has one serve. This is because all he wants is to attack or if not, get the opponent to spin up the ball so he can counter. While there are other ways to win points, once you are getting what you want and your opponent is not changing, it is not a crime to mostly serve the same thing. If rhey don't change and you are winning, there is no reason to change.

Yeah I got told to do many different serves in the 1st set. And then chose 2-3 that worked best and serve those only in the next set. Then ditch the serves that worked less and add new ones for the next and so on.
I didn't even follow that strategy and just served with the mindset of making them "uncomfortable" rather than what ball I want. Because I thought if they get too comfortable aka me serving short backspin to their bh all the time. They can just chose where to push all over the table and by making them guess I might get the default return back which is more predictable for me.
The kids did mostly the same return. I don't know why I didn't catch that up and went for a better 3rd ball attack. Lots of fruits hanging in those games as well.

There is also this thing that I don't know what I want really. As long as I know what I will get I am happy with most things I guess but I need to know it (beforehand ) If I know I have to loop backspin with bh after my serve my successrate doubles. If I don't know and might need to use fh or worse have to move and then use either bh or fh I default to a passive stroke most of the time.

I also realized I have a problem with my fh. I have a really good loop when nothing is on the line and I know the ball is going there but then rush and do a fh topspin that I never really trained.
I don't know how I can progressively get better here. Against the 1800TTR Krickl W. I started the set really good with good spinny loops. I was even up 10-7 and gave the set away. In the 2nd encounter I got a set off of him but that was because I played even more random than before. I was telling myself what did I do right this set so I can keep going but I just forgot everything.

Only Wolfgang and efogo had the same spinny fh as me. Against Wolfgang I also didn't know where to play my balls. It felt like he covered the entire table. But looking the match after I think I had to place more balls wider to his bh (sideline) and cover my wide fh and play fh to his bh to have the highest chance of winning. The way I looped to his bh he could easily just block parallel and get me out of rythm.

I just checked half a year ago in my first tournament ever I also lost to christoph in 5th set 9-11. I will just keep attacking his bh with spin patiently. He is also the type of player I can "train" to counter with my fh especially instead of defaulting to blocks. Soft blocks is what he loves. I am confident in the next race cup I will beat him.

My goal for next race cup is also: Adding more forwards/speed into my topspins on the fh but not going for an endstroke. When playing against weaker opponents I will focus on placement instead of beating them with slow spin (since this only works vs weaker opponents) I need to build myself a game that also works against slightly higher rated opponents than me. Faster recovery after serving. When they serve long to my bh wait a little longer and then whip through more instead of a passive drive back.

 

[Der_Echte]

@Zezima I like you comment about have better technique... but so good results.

I frequently tell the children, teenage, and adult learners where I coach that the MIDDLE shots, the non-attacking shots determine who will have the advantage to win or lose the point.

The next area setting a player up to LOSE points is SHOT SELECTION based on what player sees and what position he or she is in... if you did not discern the impact well enough, are not in in position well enough soon enough already knowing the shot to play... and out of good leverage... then the attacking shot you select will likely FAIL

If one is NOT going to attack, then one should figure that out immediately and step to bounce of ball, and touch it back soft/short or fast/deep with placement.
The quality of a player's non attacking shot will get that player killed or give him or her chances in the rally or even opponents' errors.

I think you saw a lot of that going on... but when you study your matches and count how many times a poor middle shot or shot selection determined your losing points, it will become so obvious like it hit you upside ur head.

I say this lovingly. many players do not see this happening when they are playing, and only a few see it when the watch their match vid.

 

[Zezima]

Yesterday I played my 2nd tournament

1st Round: Alexander Härle 1678
8-11 / 6-11 / 8-11

Very tough opponent to start it off. Lightning was bad in this hall too dim.
Also my first good opponent who has a deceiving afterstroke in his serves.
I got mindfucked during the game questioned my eyes deceiving me which madd me play more stressed out also clearly to be seen when I use my old technique. He has 1 or 2 very illegal serves where he didn't throw up the ball. Whatever..
Game exposed nothing new. I am only sad that I wasn't relaxed when using fh topspin.

4:12 over the table flick was good this time.
5:28 again
4:29 one of the more relaxed fh topspins

Looks like he just kept serving no spin deceiving me into thinking its backspin and I pop it up he 3rd all attack its hard..

5:46 looks illegal to me. He clipped the net but I wonder how I could make my push better take it earlier or chop it harder?

6:03 summary of the game. Crazy how many times it happens and stupid me giving too much thought about his aftermotion. My eyes and brain not in agreement in terms of what spin the ball has.

8:33 his best serve
8:46 I need to play out points more like this. Good simple serve good parallel flick and the block wider to the sidelines. Nothing fancy.
9:07 I think score is 8-8 and another suspicious serve by him.looking at his elbow I wonder how that was topspin maybe only sidespin idk but I chop dosn it it still rockets up..

2nd match
Martin Zwick 1182 3-0
10:56 slowmo my fh. I don't understand how my brain thinks thats the right motion. And ofc I miss I am just busy twiddling my racket angle .
Other than that not worth commenting. First set I had huge problems with his heavy backspin push and me being tense.
18:41 for the best serve in TT.
19:38 good placement bad technique
22:26 I like the agressiveness but with the right technique there was like 40% more possible

3rd match
Michael lamp 1643 1-3

This match is worth analyzing deeper.
My opp had 15 net rolls in the entire game like 6 of them in the last set.

23:20 terrible technique but I like the aggressiveness early in the set.
23:47


23:32 that serve wtf.
27:37 bro pulles the handswitch on me. First time I see this against me used.
28:17 forgiveable rubber
28:36 bro just looped to the same spot 3 times.
29:03 my after serve stand getting exposed since I start to face better players opening up parallel.
29:41 good counterattack and after that I get scared and think I will loop out if I loop again
33:28 this is my goal what he did right there. Very clean not just footwork but technique aswell.
34:04 double happiness just right after he had a net plus edge in the previous point

36:51 good bh attacks

4. Match vs markus czarsch 1486 short pips backhand

39:40 this backhand swing of his mindfucked me during match it literally made no sense why he swings the other side before.

I fell for many empty balls when he lifted the ball with his pips. Bad lights plus my closed to open technique gave me 0 confidence. He also abused my wide fh a lot.

40:21 so many mistakes here. I do my bh then the ball comes to my fh not even fast. Instead of taking my right leg back that way I open my body up plus have more time ...
Super rushed shot and technique break down

41:00 finally good technique fh ts. But bad placement

42:38 how can short pips get so much backspin here

6. Match
Daniel Prinz 1424
3-0

I thought this match was worth analyzing but really too many dumb mistakes not worth commenting about.
Also I see in the video he does the same bad technique as me with the fh

56:08 even more drastic then I do.
56:49 Highlight of the match
The topspin after this point also looks good also technique wise and relaxed.

 

[NextLevel]

Yesterday I played my 2nd tournament

1st Round: Alexander Härle 1678
8-11 / 6-11 / 8-11

Very tough opponent to start it off. Lightning was bad in this hall too dim.
Also my first good opponent who has a deceiving afterstroke in his serves.
I got mindfucked during the game questioned my eyes deceiving me which madd me play more stressed out also clearly to be seen when I use my old technique. He has 1 or 2 very illegal serves where he didn't throw up the ball. Whatever..
Game exposed nothing new. I am only sad that I wasn't relaxed when using fh topspin.

4:12 over the table flick was good this time.
5:28 again
4:29 one of the more relaxed fh topspins

Looks like he just kept serving no spin deceiving me into thinking its backspin and I pop it up he 3rd all attack its hard..

5:46 looks illegal to me. He clipped the net but I wonder how I could make my push better take it earlier or chop it harder?

6:03 summary of the game. Crazy how many times it happens and stupid me giving too much thought about his aftermotion. My eyes and brain not in agreement in terms of what spin the ball has.

8:33 his best serve
8:46 I need to play out points more like this. Good simple serve good parallel flick and the block wider to the sidelines. Nothing fancy.
9:07 I think score is 8-8 and another suspicious serve by him.looking at his elbow I wonder how that was topspin maybe only sidespin idk but I chop dosn it it still rockets up..

2nd match
Martin Zwick 1182 3-0
10:56 slowmo my fh. I don't understand how my brain thinks thats the right motion. And ofc I miss I am just busy twiddling my racket angle .
Other than that not worth commenting. First set I had huge problems with his heavy backspin push and me being tense.
18:41 for the best serve in TT.
19:38 good placement bad technique
22:26 I like the agressiveness but with the right technique there was like 40% more possible

3rd match
Michael lamp 1643 1-3

This match is worth analyzing deeper.
My opp had 15 net rolls in the entire game like 6 of them in the last set.

23:20 terrible technique but I like the aggressiveness early in the set.
23:47


23:32 that serve wtf.
27:37 bro pulles the handswitch on me. First time I see this against me used.
28:17 forgiveable rubber
28:36 bro just looped to the same spot 3 times.
29:03 my after serve stand getting exposed since I start to face better players opening up parallel.
29:41 good counterattack and after that I get scared and think I will loop out if I loop again
33:28 this is my goal what he did right there. Very clean not just footwork but technique aswell.
34:04 double happiness just right after he had a net plus edge in the previous point

36:51 good bh attacks

4. Match vs markus czarsch 1486 short pips backhand

39:40 this backhand swing of his mindfucked me during match it literally made no sense why he swings the other side before.

I fell for many empty balls when he lifted the ball with his pips. Bad lights plus my closed to open technique gave me 0 confidence. He also abused my wide fh a lot.

40:21 so many mistakes here. I do my bh then the ball comes to my fh not even fast. Instead of taking my right leg back that way I open my body up plus have more time ...
Super rushed shot and technique break down

41:00 finally good technique fh ts. But bad placement

42:38 how can short pips get so much backspin here

6. Match
Daniel Prinz 1424
3-0

I thought this match was worth analyzing but really too many dumb mistakes not worth commenting about.
Also I see in the video he does the same bad technique as me with the fh

56:08 even more drastic then I do.
56:49 Highlight of the match
The topspin after this point also looks good also technique wise and relaxed.

In just about every single match, your motion to your forehand from the backhand is slow when your opponent goes there. Completely unrelated to your practice I guess... solutions to problems like this tend to be much more important for one's playing level than revamping technique.

Also, after game 1 of the last match, you start shadowing straightening the forehand but the backswing away from the body will make body rotation with the forehand harder to achieve.

Your opponent's technique even with its limitations is more than fine, decent European players used similar technique for a long time.

 

[Zezima]

In just about every single match, your motion to your forehand from the backhand is slow when your opponent goes there. Completely unrelated to your practice I guess... solutions to problems like this tend to be much more important for one's playing level than revamping technique.

Also, after game 1 of the last match, you start shadowing straightening the forehand but the backswing away from the body will make body rotation with the forehand harder to achieve.

Your opponent's technique even with its limitations is more than fine, decent European players used similar technique for a long time.

You mean after hitting a bh I am slow on hitting fh topspin after?

What do you mean game 1 of the last match. Timestamp? I should probably practise while rotating aswell.

Which opponents? Each one has a different technique I think the 3rd dude had the best one.

 

[karupinkun]

I hope everybody agreed to be part of your Videos and were informed that you gonna upload anything for a larger online audiance to have a look at it. Even mention their name multiple times. Especially the parents of the kids.

 

[ShakehandJpenCpenEnjoyer]

Reminds me of the DaTenSChuTzpApiEr!!1! meme lol

 

[NetProphet]

I hope everybody agreed to be part of your Videos and were informed that you gonna upload anything for a larger online audiance to have a look at it. Even mention their name multiple times. Especially the parents of the kids.

Why would that be an issue.
It's people playing TT.... 🤷
Surely there's no right to privacy at events like this that are open to the public.

 

[NextLevel]

Why would that be an issue.
It's people playing TT.... 🤷
Surely there's no right to privacy at events like this that are open to the public.

I wouldn't go that far, it depends on the rights in each country etc. But generally, I try to avoid posting matches with minors and I am not a fan of using whole names on the internet, but I generally accept it when people do it.

 

[NextLevel]

You mean after hitting a bh I am slow on hitting fh topspin after?

What do you mean game 1 of the last match. Timestamp? I should probably practise while rotating aswell.

Which opponents? Each one has a different technique I think the 3rd dude had the best one.

Yes.

The video is long, the very last match maybe around 55 minutes in after the first game.

The last opponent, who you said has the same technique as you.

 

[NetProphet]

I wouldn't go that far, it depends on the rights in each country etc. But generally, I try to avoid posting matches with minors and I am not a fan of using whole names on the internet, but I generally accept it when people do it.

Well I understand the 'err on the side of caution' approach, that's fair enough.
But I also get the 'better to ask for forgiveness then permission' approach as oftentimes nothing will happens unless you actually go and do it first.
I suppose my bigger issue is absolute strangers and busybodies "hoping" for things with their finger wagging because there's the chance of some perceived slight or umbrage to be taken by someone they don't know and have absolutely no connection to.
It's modern day busybody SJW approach at its finest.

Seriously, those matches I played the other day are on my channel that gets 12 views a month by a bunch of table Tennis nerds. 🤷
It's hardly worth the comment that started this tangent really...

 

[NextLevel]

Well I understand the 'err on the side of caution' approach, that's fair enough.
But I also get the 'better to ask for forgiveness then permission' approach as oftentimes nothing will happens unless you actually go and do it first.
I suppose my bigger issue is absolute strangers and busybodies "hoping" for things with their finger wagging because there's the chance of some perceived slight or umbrage to be taken by someone they don't know and have absolutely no connection to.
It's modern day busybody SJW approach at its finest.

Seriously, those matches I played the other day are on my channel that gets 12 views a month by a bunch of table Tennis nerds. 🤷
It's hardly worth the comment that started this tangent really...

I hear you, but I think for our purposes, we have little or no need to know the player's names, and that with AI amongst other things, putting the player's names in the video always raises the possibility of their being discovered or noticed somehow. I sometimes think I should email people who put up videos with my full name to get my name taken off them because they come up in google searches all the time.

To be fair, in this case, you have to watch the video to find the name, But it's just good practice to preserve anonymity and protect minors. I remember a kid one time emailing me to complain about his video being posted and I took it down (unlisted is more than good enough and doesn't show up on searches, as one example).

It's just good in general to make public only what one knows is unexceptional as public info.

In any case, let's continue this discussion elsewhere, OP needs comments on his play.

 

[piligrim]

I hope everybody agreed to be part of your Videos and were informed that you gonna upload anything for a larger online audiance to have a look at it. Even mention their name multiple times. Especially the parents of the kids.

WTT posting many juniors events with full kids names. I don't think there parents can complain

 

[dingyibvs]

WTT posting many juniors events with full kids names. I don't think there parents can complain

Even regular tournaments have consent and liabilities forms, I'm sure WTT would have the kids' parents sign broadcast rights and such.

 

[piligrim]

Even regular tournaments have consent and liabilities forms, I'm sure WTT would have the kids' parents sign broadcast rights and such.

When you register for tournament you same time give permission for video and photo recording

 

[Zezima]

When you register for tournament you same time give permission for video and photo recording

Exactly. Everyone in the hall knew about me filming and noone complained. I will stop posting until the mod decides to do his job.