My Butterfly Dignics 09C Review: Why I think that most amateur players should avoid it

[victormanriquey]

One word: MARKETING

Serious note tho, I would personally agree with Timo more because once I used D09c on my BH as a beginner it improved tremendously, every other BH rubber felt usable but very uncomfortable for me

I guess the marketing angle is right yeah, brands are businesses as well, they have to sell what they produce, and if only pros buy it, there is not enough people to justify the production line investment.

I did enjoy 09c on backhand for certain aspects as well, for people coming from catapult tensors like T05 or MXP it sure will feel more controlled

 

[Matteones]

Curious, what is the "common sense" for beginners using H3?

The same I have explained already more than once in this topic that has become a jungle.
No H3 as a beginner either (unless you have a systemic training background like the chinese and some other very selected people do). I don't know softer hurricanes (37-38) so I'd try them before putting them on my beginners. I am also in Europe and literally less than 1% of the people uses hurricane (I have recently switched to it, but this doesn't change common sense).
Just plain normal medium softness sponge inverted rubbers on dear old Primorac OFF - or Korbel or anything similar.
When they get better and they actually form a style (maybe around 1800 USATT level?) we speak about changing equipment. I am speaking of people who train seriously and get coached and whose priority is getting better at table tennis; if they are people who will never reach "intermediate" level for one reason or another (which is still the majority) and they want to change after some years out of curiosity, they are welcome to do as they please.

 

[MORTtheORT]

If I may say one thing regarding @MORTtheORT comments, in the beginning when I started posting here, even though I enjoyed the discussion with @NextLevel and @ThePongCommenter , it did feel intense and somewhat passive-aggresive at first, coming from a moderator. I was used to more neutral and balancing mods in forums. This was how it felt to me, not how NextLevel meant it. This was clarified in a private message with him and thepongcommenter, so since then I respect and understand more how he does his moderator role. He is biased and that is okey, we disagree in many things and that is okey too, I expect some good criticism on all my posts as they are controversial, but it's good for the perspective diversity. I'm also biased and strong in my opinions, but I always try to bring them in a polite and respectful way. Btw, we also agree on many points as well.

By the way, for @ThePongCommenter he is not a moderator so he can say and do as he pleases as long as the rules of the forum are respected of course, same for all of us here. He and I disagree in many things related to gear but it keeps me sharp, so all good

In any case, last thing on this, I also understand that @MORTtheORT tries to keep the moderation level sharp, I think that this can as well be a positive thing and it's no problem to be discussed. From the above I understand that nextlevel doesnt mind discussing it.

One thing though, maybe we have gone a bit offtopic now from the initial thread, so we can bring it back to why timo and franziska disagree on 09c opinions haha

Yes, my initial engagement on this site was hostile, and I see why the engagement is low.

I was going to write a long post highlighting things to improve this blog site.... starting with don't turn it into an OP vs Moderator thread.... A free content provider vs a person of authority.....how to disengage people 101....lots of video content cross over not being used and no soft engagement threads/tools for new/shy users.

IMO, this site has lost its objective of growing the sport via engagement. But I have now lost interest in it as well, which is a shame, as the OP recent posts were what actually got me more excited about the site and opened the floor to wider engagement......very positive and more aligned with what successful sporting blogs are like. But it has quickly been drawn back to a site of a core few.

No need to respond, Moderator, my interest is low, and I only responded because the OP mentioned me, and I like what they bring to this site.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, my initial engagement on this site was hostile, and I see why the engagement is low.

I was going to write a long post highlighting things to improve this blog site.... starting with don't turn it into an OP vs Moderator thread.... A free content provider vs a person of authority.....how to disengage people 101....lots of video content cross over not being used and no soft engagement threads/tools for new/shy users.

IMO, this site has lost its objective of growing the sport via engagement. But I have now lost interest in it as well, which is a shame, as the OP recent posts were what actually got me more excited about the site and opened the floor to wider engagement......very positive and more aligned with what successful sporting blogs are like. But it has quickly been drawn back to a site of a core few.

No need to respond, Moderator, my interest is low, and I only responded because the OP mentioned me, and I like what they bring to this site.

@victormanriquey is very much appreciated. PM me whatever you recommend. I will take it under serious advisement.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Yes, my initial engagement on this site was hostile, and I see why the engagement is low.

I was going to write a long post highlighting things to improve this blog site.... starting with don't turn it into an OP vs Moderator thread.... A free content provider vs a person of authority.....how to disengage people 101....lots of video content cross over not being used and no soft engagement threads/tools for new/shy users.

IMO, this site has lost its objective of growing the sport via engagement. But I have now lost interest in it as well, which is a shame, as the OP recent posts were what actually got me more excited about the site and opened the floor to wider engagement......very positive and more aligned with what successful sporting blogs are like. But it has quickly been drawn back to a site of a core few.

No need to respond, Moderator, my interest is low, and I only responded because the OP mentioned me, and I like what they bring to this site.

If your initial engagement on this site is what I think you are referring to, it was you claiming that your doubles partner and regular casual clubmate was an Olympic medalist who can't be named so there was some skepticism for obvious reasons. Coincidentally my initial engagement on this site was similar - there was a now departed user who was the most active poster at the time who frequently cited his numerous professional coach and player connections as sources in discussions and when I cited my numerous professional coach/player connections I was met with some skeptical hostility as well until we talked it out and I proved I wasn't full of it.

I actually definitely see the concern you and others have voiced with potential conflict of interest of the moderator being the most active poster on the forum but don't agree engagement is down since the change and have a different opinion on why not too many new users seem to come across or stay for long... one being because most players just don't care that much about equipment and that's all this forum talks about (besides the JNT womens team), and the other reason, well, it might sound hostile...

 

[Jslick89]

If your initial engagement on this site is what I think you are referring to, it was you claiming that your doubles partner and regular casual clubmate was an Olympic medalist who can't be named so there was some skepticism for obvious reasons. Coincidentally my initial engagement on this site was similar - there was a now departed user who was the most active poster at the time who frequently cited his numerous professional coach and player connections as sources in discussions and when I cited my numerous professional coach/player connections I was met with some skeptical hostility as well until we talked it out and I proved I wasn't full of it.

I actually definitely see the concern you and others have voiced with potential conflict of interest of the moderator being the most active poster on the forum but don't agree engagement is down since the change and have a different opinion on why not too many new users seem to come across or stay for long... one being because most players just don't care that much about equipment and that's all this forum talks about (besides the JNT womens team), and the other reason, well, it might sound hostile...

I've been here for at least a few years and i feel like the forum activity is the same? some days more active than others, which matches my own personal use (bases mostly on my personal time available to post).

As with any sport, there's only so much you can talk about; tactics/development, the professionals of the sport, and especially with table tennis, the equipment.

If you're not interested in others opinions, then a public forum is probably not where you should be spending your time. If you have a hard time handling critique, you probably shouldn't post your own opinions on a public forum.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Come here; talk some sh1t. Relax and don‘t be too serious.

On a more serious note: should this uncle use Tibhar MXP or Donic Acuda S1 as replacement for Z03 when unlce’s wallet is tight? Darn serious question this one is, life and death situation.

 

[Tyce]

Come here; talk some sh1t. Relax and don‘t be too serious.

On a more serious note: should this uncle use Tibhar MXP or Donic Acuda S1 as replacement for Z03 when unlce’s wallet is tight? Darn serious question this one is, life and death situation.

You do realize those are both not Butterfly rubbers, right? Not suitable.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

You do realize those are both not Butterfly rubbers, right? Not suitable.

Just in case you know, when this uncle has to decide between butterfly and his next shot of Dark Mocha Latte with Organic Soy Milk Frappecino with extra cream and stevia syrup. Life is hard and oil may hit USD200 soon, ok? It is possible I cannot afford Z03 soon.

 

[victormanriquey]

Just in case you know, when this uncle has to decide between butterfly and his next shot of Dark Mocha Latte with Organic Soy Milk Frappecino with extra cream and stevia syrup. Life is hard and oil may hit USD200 soon, ok? It is possible I cannot afford Z03 soon.

@Gozo Calderano I was laughing hard at home alone. The first part of the sentence was already good but the added extra touch with the stevia syrup did it for me 😂 Oil is mad nowadays, what a world.

Now in all seriousness, are MXP / Acuda S1 the only options or you have more?

 

[NextLevel]

Come here; talk some sh1t. Relax and don‘t be too serious.

On a more serious note: should this uncle use Tibhar MXP or Donic Acuda S1 as replacement for Z03 when unlce’s wallet is tight? Darn serious question this one is, life and death situation.

Just in case you know, when this uncle has to decide between butterfly and his next shot of Dark Mocha Latte with Organic Soy Milk Frappecino with extra cream and stevia syrup. Life is hard and oil may hit USD200 soon, ok? It is possible I cannot afford Z03 soon.

Gozo, Butterfly marketing is supposed to convince you that if you buy Z03, the rubber will last forever. That will leave you enough time and income to buy other things since you will only need one sheet of Z03 for the rest of your life. You seem unconvinced. Why?

 

[Tyce]

Just in case you know, when this uncle has to decide between butterfly and his next shot of Dark Mocha Latte with Organic Soy Milk Frappecino with extra cream and stevia syrup. Life is hard and oil may hit USD200 soon, ok? It is possible I cannot afford Z03 soon.

Real man drinks coffee black.

 

[victormanriquey]

Real man drinks coffee black.

Like the soul

 

[NDH]

I was going to write a long post highlighting things to improve this blog site

I feel I should reply to some of the things you've said here - Yes it's semi off topic. Shoot me.

You can write whatever you want about ways you feel this forum can be improved. But please remember, it's a forum for fans/players/equipment junkies and everything in between - It's not a "blog" or a mouthpiece for any specific organisation.

TableTennisDaily have no affiliation with any official body, and don't have any agenda to push.

A free content provider vs a person of authority

This really grates on me, and in your defence, it isn't just you.

Yes, @NextLevel is a moderator. So what? He's a moderator because he has given far more to this forum than virtually anyone else, and he's active - He also willing to give up his own time, to ensure people like you can have a more enjoyable experience on the forum.

There are other moderators here to ensure no one goes "rogue" - And if anyone feels something is unfair, please report it to myself, Dan or one of the other moderators.

But can we all please get over this "you are a moderator, how dare you participate with your own opinion" - NextLevel's opinion is no different to yours - Both are welcome, and you can argue back and forth who is right and who is wrong, just like you can with anyone else.

IMO, this site has lost its objective of growing the sport via engagement.

This site, as far as I'm aware, has never been here to grow table tennis via engagement - In the few months you've been registered on this site, what made you think it was?

It's an online forum for people to talk rubbish about table tennis. Something it does very well!

No need to respond, Moderator, my interest is low,

Honestly? This attitude is really poor. It's rude, disrespectful and completely unnecessary.

You can't claim to want the best for this forum and the table tennis community as a whole, whilst behaving like this on a public forum.

To finish on a positive note.

@victormanriquey - What a great thread. I've not read it all, but it's got to be the best engaged thread we've had for a long time!

Even if I disagree with you to a certain extent

 

[victormanriquey]

To finish on a positive note.

@victormanriquey - What a great thread. I've not read it all, but it's got to be the best engaged thread we've had for a long time!

Even if I disagree with you to a certain extent

Thanks @NDH! it's indeed quite the active thread, I knew it would be controversial but not this much haha In any case I'm enjoying going back and forth, and I look forward to more of this conversations at the TTD event in september, I ll be there for sure, so I can't wait for people to grill my amateur technique and my equipment opinions, provided they buy me a cold beer later

And no worries, please disagree with me and share your opinion/experience, it's benefitial for the overall community and discussion. And in any case, what it is for sure is great and fun TT rubbish!

I also think is a pity if @MORTtheORT stops being active, so would love if you guys can have a chat and he can regain some of the motivation to collaborate. We may or not agree with each other all the time, but at the end of the day, I want to believe we all love TT a lot, we are not too many out there against the big sports, better to disagree but stay united for the overall good of the sport

 

[mamedium]

Real man drinks coffee black.

real men wear pink

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

real men wear pink

Pink it is

 

[Tembel]

Going back to the topic . If anyone is passing by Stockholm/Sweden, I really recommend that you visit the Stiga Showroom. They let you try all possible variations of their blades and their rubbers. You can play versus ex-pro's(Jens Lundqvist is sometimes there, and others ...) and they will recommend what fits your playstyle and level. I can from personal experience say that they also do not try to make you buy whatever is the most expensive or highest margin products, but very much will give you sound advice.
The general concensus from their professionals is very much in line with stand point from the OP. Very few players actually benefit from Carbon blades or super hard sponges. They have done a lot of SpinSight readings and even most of their highest level players play with and perform best with wooden blades and medium hard sponges.

 

[victormanriquey]

Going back to the topic . If anyone is passing by Stockholm/Sweden, I really recommend that you visit the Stiga Showroom. They let you try all possible variations of their blades and their rubbers. You can play versus ex-pro's(Jens Lundqvist is sometimes there, and others ...) and they will recommend what fits your playstyle and level. I can from personal experience say that they also do not try to make you buy whatever is the most expensive or highest margin products, but very much will give you sound advice.

I have this on my list for whenever I go back, I love the city, it's so beautiful and the people are very nice, plus I love the cardamon buns, sorry, I'm weak 😂

The general concensus from their professionals is very much in line with stand point from the OP. Very few players actually benefit from Carbon blades or super hard sponges. They have done a lot of SpinSight readings and even most of their highest level players play with and perform best with wooden blades and medium hard sponges.

And good to know that they have a similar philosophy, Id have expected they try to sell the most expensive, it's a shop after all haha Interesting data with spinsight!

Thanks for sharing @Tembel !!! ❤️

 

[chandyrandy]

Threads start to heal when Gozo enters the chat 🙏🏽 thank you for restoring balance Mr Avatar