New FH Rubber (Glayzer, Fastarc G1, Omega VII Pro)

[Doppelschlag]

A couple thoughts here

- First, before giving proper accurate advice it would be good to see your technique in action, to see if you can hit through the sponge or not by hearing contact sound and checking blade angle. A harder sponge if you can't hit-brush through it is going to be more difficult to play. Also, the Hugo HAL is a 'viscaria-like' blade that uses a 'sort of carbon' (no real carbon) and ayous (instead of ALC + limba) to be more tamed, but it's still an outer koto blade, which paired with something like t80 becomes hard to use and d05 is more controlled in slow strokes but when activated has a significant catapult. I think this is what you mean with suppressed feeling? That you are forced to break to keep balls on the table? I have mentioned this issue in detail here: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...ower-really-comes-from-in-table-tennis.38784/

- Then about the choice of rubber, if you like a catapult linear tensor, then G-1 is your best alternative as @piligrim and @golden_son mentioned. It is not a slow rubber though, linear does not mean slow. I agree that Razka 7 is slower and more controlled than G-1, having tried both on different blades. If you hit through, G-1 has more tempo and spin. If G1 is too much, Razka 7 is good too, glayzer too but glayzer has more catapult built in due to butterfly sponges, so it's not as linear.

- Last thought: If technique needs improvement and is still developing, the hugo HAL is not the right blade for you, and D05 not the right rubber

Hav you tried the Xiom Hayabusa ZL Pro? It is basically the HAL, but the inner fibre instead of outer. Same speed, but more flexible and more hold. Reason asking is I have the HAL, it’s probably a tad fast for me but I really like the feel and the handle (more than the Persson Powerplay).

 

[po-stit]

Hav you tried the Xiom Hayabusa ZL Pro? It is basically the HAL, but the inner fibre instead of outer. Same speed, but more flexible and more hold. Reason asking is I have the HAL, it’s probably a tad fast for me but I really like the feel and the handle (more than the Persson Powerplay).

I never tried that blade but the HAL is already really soft. Can’t imagine a blade being softer with more dwell. To me the Hal sometimes has “to much” dwell. But i agree, despite being really linear it can be really powerful when you hit hard.

 

[K.K]

Hav you tried the Xiom Hayabusa ZL Pro? It is basically the HAL, but the inner fibre instead of outer. Same speed, but more flexible and more hold. Reason asking is I have the HAL, it’s probably a tad fast for me but I really like the feel and the handle (more than the Persson Powerplay).

if you play the HAL and think it is too fast then you could easily switch to a normal 5ply blade. since the handle of the HAL is inspired by butterfly handles, you could look into something like Korbel or Primorac.

edit: (also looking at the fact that you play rubbers that are already more on the control side and not fast at all)

 

[Jikester]

I never tried that blade but the HAL is already really soft. Can’t imagine a blade being softer with more dwell. To me the Hal sometimes has “to much” dwell. But i agree, despite being really linear it can be really powerful when you hit hard.

Then you should try more blades. HAL is definitely not "really soft" if you look at the spectrum of all blades. It is of course softer than your typical outer ALC blade, but there are so much blades that are softer than the HAL. I personally would not consider the ZL pro as alternative to the HAL, for me it feels to flexible because of the inner construction.

 

[victormanriquey]

Hav you tried the Xiom Hayabusa ZL Pro? It is basically the HAL, but the inner fibre instead of outer. Same speed, but more flexible and more hold. Reason asking is I have the HAL, it’s probably a tad fast for me but I really like the feel and the handle (more than the Persson Powerplay).

No I havent but from looking at composition and philosophy, what you say is correct, try it out and see I'd say! Curious about your experience, I'll try some xiom blades soonish, have them in the backlog

 

[dprsspins]

Hello, guys, I need your help! I need a new forehand rubber.

I've been playing with Dignics 05 on my Hugo HAL and loving it, however, I feel that when I 'm not at my best, I struggle a little. Mainly when out of position, I struggle to activate the sponge and can't generate spin as well. That gets exacerbated on game day, I start to lose confidence and begin missing even more.
I think I need a softer rubber and one that is easier to play. I like the lack of spin sensitivity of the D05 and its linearity. I don't mind a little bit of catapult, but not much. I tried the Hybrid MK on the FH ( I'm currently using it on the BH) and liked it but felt it was a little too slow (I tried the Hybrid MK Pro and didn't enjoy it as much).

Previously i was using T80 on a Innerforce ALC but didnt like the jumpiness/spin sensitivity of it.

From my research , I've come up with three options:

Glayzer (softer D05?)
Fastarc G1 (less reactive T05?)
Omega VII Pro

I tried the Omega VII Tour on a friend 's blade and, despite its hardness, it felt more controlled than my D05. Maybe the Omega VII Pro will be similar but softer?
I appreciate your help.

You cannot go wrong with Glayzer if you like D05 but want a tamer version of it, because it's exactly that.

If your struggling with D05, the Glayzer will up your confidence by many levels. I know because I've downgraded from D05 to Glayzer as well, and all my shots started landing on the table. Given, the first few rallies dropped into the net a few times, because Glayzer definitely does not have much catapult at all. My returns were less dangerous, but sustaining the rallies for just a few balls longer is a game changer in terms of winning points and maintaining confidence during matches. Plus, the softer sponge does help with footwork. If your footwork is still not elite and you struggle to get into the best position to fully rotate your body for that sweet sweet spin, D05's hard sponge can definitely be a challenge to activate in the heat of it all.

Fastarc G1 is VERY VERY different from Glayzer. It's like comparing Tenergy05 and Rozena. G1 is still quite jumpy and bouncy even if it's less bouncy than T05. Glayzer on the other hand is super linear. What you hit is what you get. Glayzer is extremely predictable sponge but with the topsheet grip and tension of the D05.

 

[doppelmoral]

You cannot go wrong with Glayzer if you like D05 but want a tamer version of it, because it's exactly that.

If your struggling with D05, the Glayzer will up your confidence by many levels. I know because I've downgraded from D05 to Glayzer as well, and all my shots started landing on the table. Given, the first few rallies dropped into the net a few times, because Glayzer definitely does not have much catapult at all. My returns were less dangerous, but sustaining the rallies for just a few balls longer is a game changer in terms of winning points and maintaining confidence during matches. Plus, the softer sponge does help with footwork. If your footwork is still not elite and you struggle to get into the best position to fully rotate your body for that sweet sweet spin, D05's hard sponge can definitely be a challenge to activate in the heat of it all.

Fastarc G1 is VERY VERY different from Glayzer. It's like comparing Tenergy05 and Rozena. G1 is still quite jumpy and bouncy even if it's less bouncy than T05. Glayzer on the other hand is super linear. What you hit is what you get. Glayzer is extremely predictable sponge but with the topsheet grip and tension of the D05.

I agree with most of your points, well said. But imo g1 is not jumpy and bouncy, maybe its spin sensitive, but not bouncy. g1 is very linear imo and stronger in serve receive and blocking than glayzer (doesnt mean glayzer is bad in that department)

g05 is easier to play and they are very different maybe because of spring sponge x vs esn feeling. but imo both rubbers are in a similar category, where g05 is a bit more nooby friendly while g1 has more potential

 

[NetProphet]

So to finish this quest I tried the Glayzer on my Hugo HAL and it's the one I will be playing if I really decide to downgrade from D05. It feels like a D05 lite and I feel pretty comfortable with it.

You may have judged both rubbers well to arrive at this conclusion because Glayzer is literally D05 topsheet with softer 'grey' sponge.
The Glayzer 09c is D09C with softer sponge

Compared to the Fastarc G1 the throw is lower, the speed is about the same on soft and medium power hit but on harder shots it seems to be slower than Fastarc G1. The short touch play and the lack of speed sensitivity despite really similar I feel that Glayzer is a little bit better.
Glayzer feels a touch harder and relatively stable even if I bottom out the rubber I don't feel a lack of control, I just feel a slower shot coming out while with G1 on harder shots I feel a little bit out of control. I guess I prefer the feeling of Butterfly rubbers on m FH.

Also tested the Glayzer on the backhand and it felt pretty good compared to my Hybrid MK. A touch faster but not much different.

The Glayzer compared to the D05. It has about the same "crispiness" from the top sheet, and the same controlled "catapult". Grip and spin seems really similar. The only thing I think D05 is better is on touch play (normal because the sponge is harder) and the max top speed. With glayzer I can "easily" bottom it out but with the D05 it seems to have infinite power. On serves I also find the Glayzer to be a little bit bouncier and harder too keep short albeit I feel the spin is about the same.

Did either of these rubbers fix the issues you mentioned in the initial post? Namely D05 being unforgiving for passive shots "(when out of position, I struggle to activate the sponge and can't generate spin)".
And did either of them help more in matches?
I'm late to the party here but I would have suggested T19 as an alternative for easier activation and spin on imperfect shots.

Have you found your solutions with G1 or Glayzer?
Or still searching?

 

[Tyce]

I agree with most of your points, well said. But imo g1 is not jumpy and bouncy, maybe its spin sensitive, but not bouncy. g1 is very linear imo and stronger in serve receive and blocking than glayzer (doesnt mean glayzer is bad in that department)

I've played G-1 for a while now and linear is not exactly the word I would use to describe it. Or at least not over its entire power range.
It has two distinct gears, one low power gear, and a medium-high power gear. Both of these gears are very linear on their own, but there is a distinct point where the gear shifts and the rubber transforms from an easy, quite insensitive rubber into something I could describe as bouncy and jumpy if you're trying to use it gently.
I personally find it very hard to control this gear shift, unless I play very smooth, loose and not play my gentle shots flat. If I do, there's no telling whether the ball goes in or out.

Of course, at this gear shift point, one doesn't want to use it gently, and powering and spinning with it turns it onto a beast where you pretty much do get what you put in.

g05 is easier to play and they are very different maybe because of spring sponge x vs esn feeling. but imo both rubbers are in a similar category, where g05 is a bit more nooby friendly while g1 has more potential

Rather than linear at the high end, I feel at some point above 80% or so it just stops making sense to apply more power/spin, because it gives diminished returns. Of course, at that point it's already a great ball, no complaints there.

 

[ZFT]

From what I’m understanding is, if you operate at:
Low to medium-high power range = Glayzer
Low, medium-low and high impact power range = G1

Essentially touch play, serve, passive blocking, lobbing is somewhat similar.

So the difference is in opening loops, rallying, chiquitas and countering where players have different power bands, spin and trajectories they are comfortable operating within.

 

[NextLevel]

You may have judged both rubbers well to arrive at this conclusion because Glayzer is literally D05 topsheet with softer 'grey' sponge.
The Glayzer 09c is D09C with softer sponge

Did either of these rubbers fix the issues you mentioned in the initial post? Namely D05 being unforgiving for passive shots "(when out of position, I struggle to activate the sponge and can't generate spin)".
And did either of them help more in matches?
I'm late to the party here but I would have suggested T19 as an alternative for easier activation and spin on imperfect shots.

Have you found your solutions with G1 or Glayzer?
Or still searching?

Nah, G09c is mot D09c with softer sponges. In fact, both Glayzer and Glayzer 09c, but G09c more than G support a slightly different close to the table playing style that makes sense for the crowd that the rubber is targeted at and even stronger players that play that style. The review at ttspin.de captured the differences perfectly and I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants to understand why G09c is just not D09c with softer sponges. In fact, I would argue that kill shots with G09c are incredibly difficult. But where the rubber shines is that it gives you an extreme control that lets push, counter and block with extrem confidence, just not necessarily with much speed. And if you can move your opponents around or take advantage of wide angles and short placements, it might be what the doctor ordered. But very few people will get a sheet of G09c and support the same playing style as D09c if they are advanced loopers. G09c just doesn't have the quality to win points easily on openers.

Here is that excellent review:

Butterfly Glayzer 09C | Review & Comparison

Butterfly Glayzer 09C Review | 50-52° EUR hard sponge | Extreme spin & control | Block-Counterplay | Spin variations

www.tt-spin.com

 

[NetProphet]

Nah, G09c is mot D09c with softer sponges. In fact, both Glayzer and Glayzer 09c, but G09c more than G support a slightly different close to the table playing style that makes sense for the crowd that the rubber is targeted at and even stronger players that play that style. The review at ttspin.de captured the differences perfectly and I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants to understand why G09c is just not D09c with softer sponges. In fact, I would argue that kill shots with G09c are incredibly difficult. But where the rubber shines is that it gives you an extreme control that lets push, counter and block with extrem confidence, just not necessarily with much speed. And if you can move your opponents around or take advantage of wide angles and short placements, it might be what the doctor ordered. But very few people will get a sheet of G09c and support the same playing style as D09c if they are advanced loopers. G09c just doesn't have the quality to win points easily on openers.

Here is that excellent review:

Butterfly Glayzer 09C | Review & Comparison

Butterfly Glayzer 09C Review | 50-52° EUR hard sponge | Extreme spin & control | Block-Counterplay | Spin variations

www.tt-spin.com

It is literally the D09c topsheet on a different sponge

 

[Haito]

It is literally the D09c topsheet on a different sponge

This can be easily settled. Maybe one of the forums users have a leftover after cutting of both rubbers and can tear the sponge of and snap a picture.

 

[NetProphet]

Nah, G09c is mot D09c with softer sponges. In fact, both Glayzer and Glayzer 09c, but G09c more than G support a slightly different close to the table playing style that makes sense for the crowd that the rubber is targeted at and even stronger players that play that style. The review at ttspin.de captured the differences perfectly and I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants to understand why G09c is just not D09c with softer sponges. In fact, I would argue that kill shots with G09c are incredibly difficult. But where the rubber shines is that it gives you an extreme control that lets push, counter and block with extrem confidence, just not necessarily with much speed. And if you can move your opponents around or take advantage of wide angles and short placements, it might be what the doctor ordered. But very few people will get a sheet of G09c and support the same playing style as D09c if they are advanced loopers. G09c just doesn't have the quality to win points easily on openers.

Here is that excellent review:

Butterfly Glayzer 09C | Review & Comparison

Butterfly Glayzer 09C Review | 50-52° EUR hard sponge | Extreme spin & control | Block-Counterplay | Spin variations

www.tt-spin.com

I'll have a look at the review later 👍
In terms of playstyle and description of what either rubber suits I have no argument but I would say that it again depends on levels. At my level (appx 1500+ TTR?) the Glayzer 09c can be plenty useful for hitting winners. I can also loop very well with it at mid distance, just as I did with D09C but the Dignics was just more 'useless' on shots with less intent.

I was referring directly to the composition of the rubber as I believe it is that D09c topsheet with different sponge as the Glayzer is the D05 topsheet with different sponge.
If I'm wrong on that then I stand corrected but I'm sure I read it somewhere after being told that from another foru member.

In any case I don't think the Glayzer 09c is the FH rubber for me 😂
I'll finish the seas with it and then try a variety of rubbers veg deciding for next season. There's so much D05, T19 etc around me now on Harimoto and Octcharov ALC blades (not a million miles away from my Inner ALC) that I'm looking fwd to trying them all and making a final decision on this.
Could you elaborate on your experienced differences between D05 and D80 (my current BH rubber)
or point me to a post where you've already explained this?

 

[Tyce]

This can be easily settled. Maybe one of the forums users have a leftover after cutting of both rubbers and can tear the sponge of and snap a picture.

And what do you think can be seen from that? 09 refers to the pimple geometry and layout, and the C refers to "Chinese" meaning it's sticky. So if you take both 09c apart, you will find the same pimple layout, and a sticky property on the smooth side.
I have no idea how we would be able to tell from pictures whether the Dignics topsheet is harder, or it has a different composition.

 

[NextLevel]

I'll have a look at the review later 👍
In terms of playstyle and description of what either rubber suits I have no argument but I would say that it again depends on levels. At my level (appx 1500+ TTR?) the Glayzer 09c can be plenty useful for hitting winners. I can also loop very well with it at mid distance, just as I did with D09C but the Dignics was just more 'useless' on shots with less intent.

I was referring directly to the composition of the rubber as I believe it is that D09c topsheet with different sponge as the Glayzer is the D05 topsheet with different sponge.
If I'm wrong on that then I stand corrected but I'm sure I read it somewhere after being told that from another foru member.

In any case I don't think the Glayzer 09c is the FH rubber for me 😂
I'll finish the seas with it and then try a variety of rubbers veg deciding for next season. There's so much D05, T19 etc around me now on Harimoto and Octcharov ALC blades (not a million miles away from my Inner ALC) that I'm looking fwd to trying them all and making a final decision on this.
Could you elaborate on your experienced differences between D05 and D80 (my current BH rubber)
or point me to a post where you've already explained this?

It *may* be just a sponge difference, but softer is not the only characteristic of the sponge, it is also significantly less elastic and this causes differences that are not just in the topsheet. Placing 09c on a regular Tenergy sponge would also produce a rubber on a softer sponge, but the dynamics would be quite different. That's what I am trying to point out. G09c is one of the best control rubbers every created, you can push and drop short almost any serve, and if you smash spin and smash counter on both sides with some topspin, it actually creates a nasty playing style for defending against some loopers. Buit if you are the attack minded player who likes to initiate, G09c can be frustrating, that's my main point. If I loop with G09c, the opponent tends to be able to comfortably counterloop unless I use a lot of variation.

D05 has a higher arc so it has a more powerspin mentality tied to it. But if you block and play passive a bit more, it is not as great as D80. Lazy quality is easier with D80. Max quality is better with D05. If you block a lot or go back and forth between blocking and aggressive countering and if you need easy speed off the table, D80 IMHO. If you power loop on backhand and flick a lot, then D05.

 

[po-stit]

You may have judged both rubbers well to arrive at this conclusion because Glayzer is literally D05 topsheet with softer 'grey' sponge.
The Glayzer 09c is D09C with softer sponge

Did either of these rubbers fix the issues you mentioned in the initial post? Namely D05 being unforgiving for passive shots "(when out of position, I struggle to activate the sponge and can't generate spin)".
And did either of them help more in matches?
I'm late to the party here but I would have suggested T19 as an alternative for easier activation and spin on imperfect shots.

Have you found your solutions with G1 or Glayzer?
Or still searching?

I don't think it's that "simple". I'll give you the case of the Hybrid MK and Hybrid MK Pro. Same topsheet but the behavior is completely different in my experience. Love the Hybrid MK on both sides but mainly on the BH and tried the MK Pro (expecting just a faster Hybrid MK) and the rubber feels very different almost too much dwell. So I do believe the sponge hardness can change the rubber completely.

Ultimately I kept the D05 but reduced the thickness to 1.9 and I'm feeling ok with it. I got used to D05 on service receive and on my own service that I can't get with another rubber. Initially I struggled with my service but now I can't get the same feeling and quality from another rubber. I used the T19 previously and despite liking the rubber it felt somewhat "too soft".

But if I had to choose one I would choose glayzer. Felt like a D05 lite. If I didn't had tested previously D05 and coming from Tenergy I would definitely be happy with Glayzer.

 

[NetProphet]

I don't think it's that "simple". I'll give you the case of the Hybrid MK and Hybrid MK Pro. Same topsheet but the behavior is completely different in my experience. Love the Hybrid MK on both sides but mainly on the BH and tried the MK Pro (expecting just a faster Hybrid MK) and the rubber feels very different almost too much dwell. So I do believe the sponge hardness can change the rubber completely.

Ultimately I kept the D05 but reduced the thickness to 1.9 and I'm feeling ok with it. I got used to D05 on service receive and on my own service that I can't get with another rubber. Initially I struggled with my service but now I can't get the same feeling and quality from another rubber. I used the T19 previously and despite liking the rubber it felt somewhat "too soft".

But if I had to choose one I would choose glayzer. Felt like a D05 lite. If I didn't had tested previously D05 and coming from Tenergy I would definitely be happy with Glayzer.

Well you called Glayzer a Dignics 05 lite and I simply agreed you may be correct saying a reason for your conclusion may be that both rubbers have the same topsheet with a different sponge.
I don't know if you actually knew that about these rubbers before testing.

The differences in the sponge as they are played on different blades by different players is interesting for me to hear about and others have noticed different things to me but that's not something I'd argue because it's subjective and personal experience is valid.
I'd only argue that subjective stuff if direct advice were being offered to someone and I felt (for whatever reason) that it may be incorrect, then I'd be here to contest and 'flesh it all out' as it were.

And thanks for your answer!
Dignics 05 in 1.9mm is a very interesting choice, and one I hadn't even considered.
Tbh I'm worried that D05 might be too much (in any thickness) so your Glayzer conclusion is very interesting.
I'm going to use my D80 on FH for a few wks and see how it goes and also my T19.
Both are rubbers I've only used On BH up to now but they'll get a good test on FH once the season is over. If I don't fall in love with one of them then regular Glayzer will probably be my nxt FH purchase.

 

[banbekas]

I don't think it's that "simple". I'll give you the case of the Hybrid MK and Hybrid MK Pro. Same topsheet but the behavior is completely different in my experience. Love the Hybrid MK on both sides but mainly on the BH and tried the MK Pro (expecting just a faster Hybrid MK) and the rubber feels very different almost too much dwell. So I do believe the sponge hardness can change the rubber completely.

Ultimately I kept the D05 but reduced the thickness to 1.9 and I'm feeling ok with it. I got used to D05 on service receive and on my own service that I can't get with another rubber. Initially I struggled with my service but now I can't get the same feeling and quality from another rubber. I used the T19 previously and despite liking the rubber it felt somewhat "too soft".

But if I had to choose one I would choose glayzer. Felt like a D05 lite. If I didn't had tested previously D05 and coming from Tenergy I would definitely be happy with Glayzer.

You are paying D05 exactly for its max performance. Same goes for why H3 users buy Blue Sponge and National version; for its Maximum Performance. Whether we can actually reach that ceiling is another matter.

Getting 1.9 for ease of use kind of defeats the purpose of getting a top end rubber. In simple term, you are not ready for D05 yet.
Might as well get Glayzer at max, you're still getting 80% of D05 with half the price.

 

[po-stit]

Well you called Glayzer a Dignics 05 lite and I simply agreed you may be correct saying a reason for your conclusion may be that both rubbers have the same topsheet with a different sponge.
I don't know if you actually knew that about these rubbers before testing.

The differences in the sponge as they are played on different blades by different players is interesting for me to hear about and others have noticed different things to me but that's not something I'd argue because it's subjective and personal experience is valid.
I'd only argue that subjective stuff if direct advice were being offered to someone and I felt (for whatever reason) that it may be incorrect, then I'd be here to contest and 'flesh it all out' as it were.

And thanks for your answer!
Dignics 05 in 1.9mm is a very interesting choice, and one I hadn't even considered.
Tbh I'm worried that D05 might be too much (in any thickness) so your Glayzer conclusion is very interesting.
I'm going to use my D80 on FH for a few wks and see how it goes and also my T19.
Both are rubbers I've only used On BH up to now but they'll get a good test on FH once the season is over. If I don't fall in love with one of them then regular Glayzer will probably be my nxt FH purchase.

Sorry if came a little harsh, it was not my intention. My english is a little rusty.

I actually knew that the pimple geometry is the same, but im not sure if the rubber compound is the same but that doesn't matter much to me. =)

Like i said before i really liked Glayzer on my Hugo Hal, but i got so used to the hardness of the sponge of the D05 that started struggling with the bounciness of the Glayzer and ultimately didnt want to "learn" how to serve and receive again with the safety and quality i can with D05. To clarify i don't think that Glayzer is bouncy but compared to D05 it is. If you can handle D80 i bet you can handle D05, D05 is definitely slower. In fact i loved D05 on my Harimoto ALC when i had one.

Going 1.9 is not such a big difference to be honest, but the top speed is slower, which im ok with this since i have a powerful FH (too much sometimes ).

You are paying D05 exactly for its max performance. Same goes for why H3 users buy Blue Sponge and National version; for its Maximum Performance. Whether we can actually reach that ceiling is another matter.

Getting 1.9 for ease of use kind of defeats the purpose of getting a top end rubber. In simple term, you are not ready for D05 yet.
Might as well get Glayzer at max, you're still getting 80% of D05 with half the price.

I strongly disagree with you. Do you play all the balls at 100% effort? If not you are waisting your blade and rubber performance so you should go to a slower rubber and blade.
Even pros use rubbers with different thickness than "max". I might not be ready for D05, i can give you that, but saying that getting glayzer is better because i can't reach the top ceiling of D05 doesn't make any sense to me. D05 has so many advantages over Glayzer than "max performance".