United States (US) Smash 2026, Los Angeles, California, USA 26 Jun - 5 Jul 2026

[NetProphet]

Yeah, but it is important to remember, even 20 degrees is not vertical, it is just the afforded tolerance. No one disputes high tosses that are mostly vertical. It's when you have a distance between where you toss and where you contact the ball that trouble starts.... with that, your toss needs to pretty much consistently go well over the head to be safe.

Sure but 30.04° should be rounded to 30° and deemed fine.
Players are practicing to stay with the tolerance but nobody is able to measure 0.04°.
To fail by that much is making a farce of things.
It should really be measured to the nearest degree only.

 

[passifid]

so you're just asking to change from 30 degrees to 30.5?

Players should try to obey the rules and if they want to toss at the very edge to get an advantage they will foul. if you change to 30.5 instead of 30 they will get called on 30.7 and say it should be 31

 

[d3nium]

You've summed it all up well there and I agree with all except I'm going with Kanak at 51/49.
I know Jarvis played poorly and didn't create much pressure at all but the way Kanak played V the way Truls played makes me think Kanak will take him.
I don't buy the Moregard line about being exhausted mentally for having to try so many things v Bertelsmeier, I think he just played below his best, as he has done recently.

On Moregard tho, I personally believe he is frustrated at not being able to close the gap to the top of the rankings since winning Europe and Montpellier.
He has stuttered since then and hasn't consistently beaten those below himand I think that is eating him up.

It's been qtr final and semi final losses to JWJ, Sora (Sora was inspired and unplayable at the WC that day!), Anton, LYJ, W Ruibo etc.
He reached one final due to WCQ being injured for SF, and lost it to Tomo...
I could be wrong but my reading of it is that these losses seem to be effecting him and his ego seems out of control and is actually a problem now.

Anyway, I do hope he sorts himself out because he can be great to watch but he seems unhappy.

PS: cannot believe the Anders Lind result !!!!
I k ow he had beaten him before but still 🤯

Jarvis & Kanak are good mates and train together a lot. Kanak knows his weaknesses.

 

[job59]

2 times now. Wtf. Anyone know if Wang Hao was coaching him or not for that match?

No, he wasn’t and it made me wonder.

 

[NextLevel]

Sure but 30.04° should be rounded to 30° and deemed fine.
Players are practicing to stay with the tolerance but nobody is able to measure 0.04°.
To fail by that much is making a farce of things.
It should really be measured to the nearest degree only.

Here we go again. The point is that if you accept that 20 degrees is not vertical and 30 degrees is the tolerance then there isnt really any rounding required. Moreover, neither of us knows the precision of the measurement to say that 0.04 degrees is something to rounded. If the precision is illegitimate, i agree they should round whatever they presented, but if the precision is legitimate, there is nothing wrong with using it. But my main point is that 20 degrees is not vertical. Players should get their serves to the point thst they are within 20 degrees. Relying on 30 is hoping for the best. And no umpire has ever called a serve within 20 degrees. It is like saying that the speeding limit really should be 60mph, they raise the limit to 80mph as a tolerance. Then people who get caught speeding at 81mph cry foul, when they should just have been driving at 60mph anyways.

 

[piligrim]

Maybe the chinese hurricane rubbers have been surpassed by butterfly rubbers and no longer give the chinese an advantage . The rest of the world are catching up.

Maybe DHS blades surpaced by Donic and Tibhar blades

 

[NextLevel]

so you're just asking to change from 30 degrees to 30.5?

Players should try to obey the rules and if they want to toss at the very edge to get an advantage they will foul. if you change to 30.5 instead of 30 they will get called on 30.7 and say it should be 31

That's why we need to keep reminding people that 20 degrees is not vertical. Because the reviews create the impression that umpires are incompetent for calling 22 and 25 and 28 degree serves. When the truth is that it is hard to tell the angle once you lose verticality but some just do it better than others and some cases are more obviously fouls than others. But the right way to interpret 30.04 is well, you were barely outside the tolerance but you shouldn't have been that far from vertical in the first place!

 

[NextLevel]

I predict the final between Hugo and Felix, although I wish Sora to win. Anyway no chinese in final is a big surprise, but non in the semis and in the quaters is an earthquake.

But it used to be about 4 players, now it is almost entirely about 1. Very surprised that LJK isn't playing, i wonder whether his physical form is really worse than advertised.

 

[Sali]

But it used to be about 4 players, now it is almost entirely about 1. Very surprised that LJK isn't playing, i wonder whether his physical form is really worse than advertised.

I think it should be some injury, maybe he was not perfect last year, but made a statement with the 2 big comebacks.

 

[Singshasha]

I bet there would be an uprising in China if either Matsushima or Harimoto wins this US Smash.

Just last week Chinese fans are observing the dragon boat festival and had no interest with the underachievers from world champs and claiming the lost was because the cnt has no interest in star contenders outside of China.

I believe the latest update is that they have no interest in Smash in the USA too.

 

[NetProphet]

Here we go again. The point is that if you accept that 20 degrees is not vertical and 30 degrees is the tolerance then there isnt really any rounding required. Moreover, neither of us knows the precision of the measurement to say that 0.04 degrees is something to rounded. If the precision is illegitimate, i agree they should round whatever they presented, but if the precision is legitimate, there is nothing wrong with using it. But my main point is that 20 degrees is not vertical. Players should get their serves to the point thst they are within 20 degrees. Relying on 30 is hoping for the best. And no umpire has ever called a serve within 20 degrees. It is like saying that the speeding limit really should be 60mph, they raise the limit to 80mph as a tolerance. Then people who get caught speeding at 81mph cry foul, when they should just have been driving at 60mph anyways.

I know that 20° is not vertical. We are not in disagreement about that.
My point is that telling players their toss is 0.04° outside of tolerance is stupid. Imo

 

[NextLevel]

I know that 20° is not vertical. We are not in disagreement about that.
My point is that telling players their toss is 0.04° outside of tolerance is stupid. Imo

So what evidence do you have that the precision is not measurable? Something substantial? Or just your opinion? And when tosses can be easily within precision, what is the difference between being out of precision and being 0.04 degrees out? If the call was 29.96 degrees, would you have said he was out of precision and we really don't know the answer?

 

[NetProphet]

So what evidence do you have that the precision is not measurable? Something substantial? Or just your opinion? And when tosses can be easily within precision, what is the difference between being out of precision and being 0.04 degrees out? If the call was 29.96 degrees, would you have said he was out of precision and we really don't know the answer?

I think if you actually read my post then you'd already know that 29.96° is 30° based on my earlier assertion.
Why don't you pull your knickers out of your ass crack and calm down a bit while your at it.
I think measuring a players ball toss to the 100th of a degree is absolutely ridiculous and actually pretty stupid. That's my opinion.
I've seen what video interference has done to football, it has made an absolute farce of the game.
Id prefer some more common sense approach to TT.
Again, an umpire telling a player that their toss is 0.04° illegal is absolutely f***ing stupid

 

[NextLevel]

I think if you actually read my post then you'd already know that 29.96° is 30° based on my earlier assertion.
Why don't you pull your knickers out of your ass crack and calm down a bit while your at it.
I think measuring a players ball toss to the 100th of a degree is absolutely ridiculous and actually pretty stupid. That's my opinion.
I've seen what video interference has done to football, it has made an absolute farce of the game.
Id prefer some more common sense approach to TT.
Again, an umpire telling a player that their toss is 0.04° illegal is absolutely f***ing stupid

Alright. No need for language like that. Last time I am tolerating it from you. Next time is an automatic ban. Thanks.

I simply asked you for evidence you know that the level of precision is not objective and whether you would accept the tolerance downwards vs upwards. For example, it is known in tennis that there are hawkeye limits for accuracy in line calls but they are accepted because on the whole it improves the game. In order to produce the angle measurement, there are quite a few cameras place in the arena to create a 3-D figure. If you know for a fact what goes into the engineering/science and that the precision is pretentious, then share. But if you are going to insult me, especially as moderator, this is your last warning. Thanks.

 

[Oliverpool]

I think if you actually read my post then you'd already know that 29.96° is 30° based on my earlier assertion.
Why don't you pull your knickers out of your ass crack and calm down a bit while your at it.
I think measuring a players ball toss to the 100th of a degree is absolutely ridiculous and actually pretty stupid. That's my opinion.
I've seen what video interference has done to football, it has made an absolute farce of the game.
Id prefer some more common sense approach to TT.
Again, an umpire telling a player that their toss is 0.04° illegal is absolutely f***ing stupid

There is a cut off and in this case it’s 30. If you say 30.04 is ok. Then what about 30.05? It’s another 0.01? Or 30.07? If there is no cut point when will it ever but called illegal?

 

[kindof99]

But it used to be about 4 players, now it is almost entirely about 1. Very surprised that LJK isn't playing, i wonder whether his physical form is really worse than advertised.

Down 0:2 twice and coming back to win was not really good performance, just struggling to win. LJK was not picked for Asian games, because CNT knew LJK's career is close to its end.

 

[NetProphet]

There is a cut off and in this case it’s 30. If you say 30.04 is ok. Then what about 30.05? It’s another 0.01? Or 30.07? If there is no cut point when will it ever but called illegal?

My point is that to measure it in 100ths of a degree is ridiculous.
If anyone thinks that calling a serve illegal because of 0.01 of a degree is the way TT should go in then that's fine, their entitled to think that.
Personally I just think that it's absolutely stupid because if you throw 50 balls in the air at 30° and 50 in the air at 30.01° the human eye cannot tell the difference and the impact on playing is zero.
By what I wrote earlier I already answered your question though, I think measurement to single degree would be more than enough. 🤷

 

[NetProphet]

Down 0:2 twice and coming back to win was not really good performance, just struggling to win. LJK was not picked for Asian games, because CNT knew LJK's career is close to its end.

I have to disagree here.
When players are so evenly matched it makes as much sense for match to go 0:2 as it does to go 1:1.
Its still about who can win 3 games from 5 (when it goes the distance).
I think being 0:2 down, analysing what's going wrong, adapting to give the opponent more problems and keeping your cool when it's donor die time is a definition of good performance.

 

[kindof99]

My point is that to measure it in 100ths of a degree is ridiculous.
If anyone thinks that calling a serve illegal because of 0.01 of a degree is the way TT should go in then that's fine, their entitled to think that.
Personally I just think that it's absolutely stupid because if you throw 50 balls in the air at 30° and 50 in the air at 30.01° the human eye cannot tell the difference and the impact on playing is zero.
By what I wrote earlier I already answered your question though, I think measurement to single degree would be more than enough. 🤷

How about measurement to 10 degrees? I don't feel this is even a subject to talk about. Only 6 years old argue about this kind of issues.

 

[NextLevel]

Only 6 years old argue about this kind of issues.

The human race must be entirely made up of 6 year olds...

But seriously, while many things about sports are fairly arbitrary , the main point is that he is not convinced by the ability of the tech to measure accurately to 0.04 and that even then, it is not within the ability of human beings to tell such a difference reliably. Of course, then he forgets that human beings can't even tell the difference between 28, 29, 30, 31, and 32 degree tosses reliably. That's why I keep defending the umpires with the reminder that 20 degrees is not vertical so on most of these calls, the Umpires are 100% correct in calling non-vertical serves. When the tolerance is 30 degrees, some of these serves will not be faulted because they gave an extra 10 degrees that many people will get wrong in real time pressure. And then this kind of debate over 0.04 degrees was inevitable, we will soon get a 30.01 degree call and people will complain about it. Or a 29.99 degree call and people will call the umpire incompetent for faulting the serve, because he should have been able to tell it was 30 degrees. But if you remember that 20 degrees is hardly vertical, then you stop this nonsense about debating 0.04 around the 30 degree range. IT should never even have gotten there.

People don't know or remember this, but the 6 inches vertical toss has a similar history. All they wanted to do was force players to toss the ball. So the rule was going to be 1 to 3 inches. But then they had to decide what would happen if people debated whether a toss was actually a toss at 1 to 3 inches. So they agreed to make it six inches so that there would be no debate. Now 6 inches has taken on a life of its own. But the original idea was to force a ball toss, just force one rather than have a disputed one.

So yeah, the world is full of 6 year olds... they are called human beings.