Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[jk1980]

Could you (in the chit chat thread) reply to the video and tell me what's broken about the timestamps I posted? Those shots would go through a Division 2 player in Australia, or about 2000 - 2100 USATT. If that's "broken" then I think you have much higher ambitions than I do and maybe are used to only playing at a semi-pro/pro level.

You have a strong misconception on your skill and the skills of others.

I can not judge for the "divison 2 player" of Australia and i might even give it to you in doubt under the precondition that for sure, people that never played table tennis and were actually just gamers and only played "the Division 2", they would probably not return that one half assed "smash" that you are talking about.

I know low level german players that smash it right back at you. Nothing in your videos would assume that you would be even on a 1100 TTR level in germany.

Having a little experience (just a little over one season yet) in the low leagues i can give rough estimates about what players can do in the west region of germany given a specific rating.
You are about 1000 TTR at best. at 1100TTR people have a system so they can cope against most amateurs simply by playing their game. That game might still have holes, but not that big that you could exploit it all the time, because when they serve they have a few patterns they play where there last at least two or three balls that are usually played on their terms.
With TTR 1200 people have a better shot selection and you can expect them to know to handle the different types of spin but might struggle with unusual amount of spin still.
you my friend are below 1000TR because you do not even have the timing nor the technique to pull of the appropriate shot (i.e. a loop vs. a low backspin push) if your life depended on it. Sure you hit one here and there but the success is way too low and yes there might be low level players that can't loop, but then it is clear to see that they actually have a different game and dont rely on it and have a way to somehow cope with it. Seeing that your partner casually lobs your serves that pretend to be backspin back to you also really makes me question if anybody has issues with this.

Usually i wouldn't post this low level footage here and i tried to anonymize the person, but dude, you are not even on the level of this opponent how has 1010 TTR "only".

You can see that i also hit the net here and there or i am late if a block is well placed and i can't follow up, but this is a real match and not goofing around with a team mate that i know. You even see my lacking shot selection when i do some sideswipe punch instead of backhand looping. That is what low level players struggle with. So you pretending to be anywhere near the levels you mentioned is bonkers.

I think the replies to your videos would be more positive if you didn't come up with these excuses about drilling 3 hours and being exhausted, because clearly we can see what these "drilling" actually looks like in the videos. You play casually ping pong in the parc. Second reason for me being this harsh is that you are acting like a little "know it all" whenever it comes to properties of brushing and looping the ball and how rubbers behave. Now whatever your favourite scientific terms you wanna throw around at these EJ topics is, either you are knowledge is wrong (since it does not lead you to actually be able to use it with a table tennis ball yourself) or it's just a lot of baloney. Perhaps you have learned something somewhere in school or university and that was the only thing that stuck, so you throw around these words, but i have the strong feeling that you suffer from the "if you only got a hammer, everything looks like a nail to you" syndrome.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

It's context. You're not there with me for 4-5 hours to see everything I did. Even today when we did manage to film most of it, we couldn't get all of it. You just keep putting words in my mouth and assuming what things mean. You gotta stop that.

Could you (in the chit chat thread) reply to the video and tell me what's broken about the timestamps I posted? Those shots would go through a Division 2 player in Australia, or about 2000 - 2100 USATT. If that's "broken" then I think you have much higher ambitions than I do and maybe are used to only playing at a semi-pro/pro level.

I watched probably 15+ minutes combined of the recent videos you've been posting. That's enough to identify that you have a broken forehand. As for why, my posts in the H3 thread and what others especially Haito have said here, get the point across.

Pointing out two decent shots and acting like that is an accurate representation of your forehand (and all the other bad footage is just because you're tired, you're working with you practice partner on slow balls, whatever other excuses) is just not honest, whether you're intentionally doing it or not.

And no, those shots would not go through a 2000-2100 USATT player with any regularity. In fact, they would probably get counter attacked quite easily by most 2000 players.

Quite frankly, I was shocked to see this level of play in light of recent comments you've made on this board such as you being able to handle CNT-hardness 42+ degree Hurricanes unboosted or whatever, and others...

 

[JustANoob]

Man, posting that with confidence, if nothing else gives me the courage to post from our local tournaments.

Gonna get me a tripod for the phone and film some. I dont even want to estimate my own ranking, its gonna make me depressed gonna leave it to you guys to destroy me

 

[NextLevel]

Man, posting that with confidence, if nothing else gives me the courage to post from our local tournaments.

Gonna get me a tripod for the phone and film some. I dont even want to estimate my own ranking, its gonna make me depressed gonna leave it to you guys to destroy me

No one gets destroyed for posting video except

1) they don't treat their playing level.with humility or
2) are being destroyed by players who will never post videos of themselves because they also lack humility.

Usually if you put in a lot of time into your game in the right kind of environment, you can tell when someone else is doing so as well. Unfortunately in most countries that means a significant investment in training time usually as a child. Not that accessible to most adults unless you dedicate a significant portion of your life and money to TT.

 

[NextLevel]

You have a strong misconception on your skill and the skills of others.

I can not judge for the "divison 2 player" of Australia and i might even give it to you in doubt under the precondition that for sure, people that never played table tennis and were actually just gamers and only played "the Division 2", they would probably not return that one half assed "smash" that you are talking about.

I know low level german players that smash it right back at you. Nothing in your videos would assume that you would be even on a 1100 TTR level in germany.

Having a little experience (just a little over one season yet) in the low leagues i can give rough estimates about what players can do in the west region of germany given a specific rating.
You are about 1000 TTR at best. at 1100TTR people have a system so they can cope against most amateurs simply by playing their game. That game might still have holes, but not that big that you could exploit it all the time, because when they serve they have a few patterns they play where there last at least two or three balls that are usually played on their terms.
With TTR 1200 people have a better shot selection and you can expect them to know to handle the different types of spin but might struggle with unusual amount of spin still.
you my friend are below 1000TR because you do not even have the timing nor the technique to pull of the appropriate shot (i.e. a loop vs. a low backspin push) if your life depended on it. Sure you hit one here and there but the success is way too low and yes there might be low level players that can't loop, but then it is clear to see that they actually have a different game and dont rely on it and have a way to somehow cope with it. Seeing that your partner casually lobs your serves that pretend to be backspin back to you also really makes me question if anybody has issues with this.

Usually i wouldn't post this low level footage here and i tried to anonymize the person, but dude, you are not even on the level of this opponent how has 1010 TTR "only".

You can see that i also hit the net here and there or i am late if a block is well placed and i can't follow up, but this is a real match and not goofing around with a team mate that i know. You even see my lacking shot selection when i do some sideswipe punch instead of backhand looping. That is what low level players struggle with. So you pretending to be anywhere near the levels you mentioned is bonkers.

I think the replies to your videos would be more positive if you didn't come up with these excuses about drilling 3 hours and being exhausted, because clearly we can see what these "drilling" actually looks like in the videos. You play casually ping pong in the parc. Second reason for me being this harsh is that you are acting like a little "know it all" whenever it comes to properties of brushing and looping the ball and how rubbers behave. Now whatever your favourite scientific terms you wanna throw around at these EJ topics is, either you are knowledge is wrong (since it does not lead you to actually be able to use it with a table tennis ball yourself) or it's just a lot of baloney. Perhaps you have learned something somewhere in school or university and that was the only thing that stuck, so you throw around these words, but i have the strong feeling that you suffer from the "if you only got a hammer, everything looks like a nail to you" syndrome.

That serve, the toss is pretty backwards (more than 30 from vertical). Very hard to see in a match from the opponent's side but I need to figure out how to see it because the spin is usually underestimated by me lol...

 

[NextLevel]

That's what I tried in the beginning when I started playing again. If it had made any difference I'd still be using "easier" setups. I will probably try something "easier" again some time whenever the EJ bug bites me again.


Filmed a lot today, but I don't have time to upload everything, so I will upload some sets. These are from roughly an hour in the session, so still pretty fresh. For the people who don't believe that I don't turn into a pro player just because I'm not tired. I did hit one or two okay shots, but it doesn't mean much because the % is low.

Hard agree on NL's advice to just flat hit everything above the net; chances are I will still spin it too much, but it'd be a step. Shots that I make which feel 100% flat in person are still about 70% brushed on video, so there's a perception issue there.

Footwork towards the ball during the stroke is also about 10% of what it feels like it is, so I need to just really go for it and stop holding back. It's not like I don't *know* how to do it better. Video is good for fixing this because I wasn't even aware before. What feels like excessive to me is still way under half of what is normal.

Apologies for the weird fucking scanline effect on the videos. I think my camera isn't well suited for the frequency of the lights in the venue. It doesn't even do it for every video nor is it related to any setting. It might be related to what it was pointing at when the video starts so I'll try to fix it experimentally later.

Not necessarily flat hit but drive. Make speed the dominant dimension of the ball quality not spin or arc though noth may be present to varying degrees. The ratio can be tricky when attacking semi high balls with heavy spin because of the table limits but table tennis is learned from practice, not really from logic.

 

[piligrim]

Mine is the non-Neo one, so no lines and very "dry" feeling, a bit like G-1. Stiff and hard.

It doesn't really react to one layer much at all, but curls a lot after 2. Has been my experience with all H3 and B2, although B2 is a bit stiffer.

Consistently I get about 1.5-2.0deg softening per layer.

If you want to improve just get 5 ply all wood blade and acuda S2 on both sides. Stop reading forum about blades and rubbers. It's just wasting time.

 

[blahness]

Thinking back to almost 4 years ago when I first started to attempt to rework my technique from the ground up, one of the first things I did was injure my wrist whole trying to develop a BH. I ended up playing through it, using pain as a guide for what NOT to do, and it was very effective in getting rid of excessive wrist usage for my BH stroke. With that in mind, I had an abbreviated practice session today. It was...interesting.

I tried to keep my wrist fixed to start, and eventually with pretty small movements. I had no idea how much my wrist contributed to my control, so many adjustments were done by the wrist! I honestly don't even know what to think of it. Sure, the timing is a bit off without the wrist, but even after adjusting for the timing every shot just felt super off. I'm gonna need to work on this a lot more, I think it'll force me to be much more precise with my arm movement, though I'm still puzzled as to exactly how much I should be using the wrist for adjustments. Maybe some of you have experience with this?

On the BH side, I was a bit frustrated with the lack of translation from robot practice to practicing against my practice partners. I ended up figuring out something new to me, but probably seems quite obvious for most of you who don't do a lot of robot practices. I really need to watch how my opponent is hitting the ball! Robots have variations too, but you can't really see it by how the ball is shot out out, but by how it flies and bounces. As such, I'm used to watching the ball to adjust my stroke. Humans have far more variations, and watching the ball is not enough, I need to pay a lot more attention to how my opponent strikes the ball to get a beat on its trajectory and quality and make most of my adjustments based on that. This isn't obvious in coaching sessions either, as coaches can usually keep the ball pretty consistent whether they're blocking or serving multi-balls.

Anyhow, I'll have to assess how my wrist feels tomorrow to decide if I can continue to train my FH this way. Early on in an injury it might be best to just lay off things altogether and just avoiding triggering motions isn't enough. I'd certainly like to try to practice this less wrist-dependent FH a lot more though.

I went through this and basically got the conclusion that only finger assisted pronation and supination were fundamentally safe and comfortable, and anyway produced the most racket head speed and spin. Wrist movements like ulnar/radial deviation and esp flexion/extension can be a lot more problematic esp if you are using a lot of power from the body. It took me a few months to rebuild my BH (and FH) into this sort of mechanism. Tbh i think i still have a bit of ulnar/radial deviation but it is no longer the main thing i think about when creating spin.

But my problem is with certain serves, you cant really escape the wrist movements if you want to maintain deception, esp for FH pendulum serves. This is also why I switched to mainly hook serves because they were a lot more wrist friendly and besides they create a lot more trouble to people lol. Reverse pendulum is the worst offender. I used to practice it so much and my wrist kinda killed me for it.

 

[dingyibvs]

I went through this and basically got the conclusion that only finger assisted pronation and supination were fundamentally safe and comfortable, and anyway produced the most racket head speed and spin. Wrist movements like ulnar/radial deviation and esp flexion/extension can be a lot more problematic esp if you are using a lot of power from the body. It took me a few months to rebuild my BH (and FH) into this sort of mechanism. Tbh i think i still have a bit of ulnar/radial deviation but it is no longer the main thing i think about when creating spin.

But my problem is with certain serves, you cant really escape the wrist movements if you want to maintain deception, esp for FH pendulum serves. This is also why I switched to mainly hook serves because they were a lot more wrist friendly and besides they create a lot more trouble to people lol. Reverse pendulum is the worst offender. I used to practice it so much and my wrist kinda killed me for it.

Yes, right now probably the most painful movement is the pendulum service, so like you I've been serving exclusively hook services lol. My BH I think is mostly fine now, but my FH will take some time to fix I'm sure. Given how new this problem is though I'm hopeful that the fix won't take too long.

Today my wrist feels better, so that's a good sign that my tactics from the practice last night is working. Just gotta have more reps with the new stroke now, cuz I tried playing a couple practice sets last night and it was awful. I was just sooo tentative with my FH.

 

[Archosaurus]

@jk1980

My estimate is that my playing level is at most 1200 USATT (but probably lower), or Division 7 in Australia. I'm sure on a bad day it can dip into 8 as well. I've gotten told I can't really play in 9 because it'd be unfair to the opponents, so at least I'm not at the very bottom.

Your 1000 TTR estimate is high, because 1000 TTR is about Division 4-5 here I think. I can't rally with people like that yet. Once in a while I will steal a set or two off them, but it doesn't mean anything. A lot of things need to go my way and a lot of things need to not go their way for that to happen.

No comment on forehand efficacy because you clearly have watched all of the sets I've played against all of the players I've played so you know better the results of my shots than I do. Thanks for the info. I'll have to go back and retract the results of a few sets because those balls actually came back and we just made an error of judgement.

Thanks also for telling me that apparently I think I'm serving backspin. I didn't even notice. I thought I was serving light top and light side-back but apparently you know better than I do what I thought.

@ThePongCommenter

If I want to even have a chance against the middle division players here, all of my 3rd balls need to be like that. I guess about 50-60% actually are. If I serve topspin to my partner mixed in with other serves I'm sure I'll get a lot of chances to hit like that, so I'll try to remember to film one or two sets like that next time.

A few times I've hit with not-boosted-for-a-while 42A National H3 on Viscaria and I found it easy enough to handle. It wouldn't be my first pick, but it's the truth. You don't need to like it when I say it, but I'm not going to pretend like something wasn't how it was. Now maybe our standards differ and your idea of handling it is different from mine. I wasn't getting as much quality on the ball as the owner, that's for sure.

@NextLevel

I don't know why that feels unsafe now. Logically I know I should just take them off the bounce or at apex and drive them pretty flat (Sometimes I do, like 9:48 in sets A) but I'm not deciding to most of the time. Maybe it's because I tend to default to a low backswing and by then it's just too late? I'll need to make a rule that balls above the net also get a backswing above the table or something and see how that goes.

I've gotten some comments that my hitrate against a popup return against my topspin serve is much better than my hitrate against any other kind of weak return and I thought it had to do with the kind of ball that's coming back (Handling top better than back), but maybe it's better because I know that it's probably not gonna be backspin and I'm just more ready to smack it earlier and higher?

@JustANoob

You don't need to care what people on the internet say. Even if you're incredible and humble, someone will still shit on you somewhere. I encourage you to post footage either way (If everyone involved is comfortable being on film, of course. You don't need to if you don't want to.) if not just because other people see a lot of things you won't see immediately. Most people are also relatively nice here.

I'm a subject matter expert in another field and I get shit on a lot more than I do here when I post about it to consumers and hobbyists. Of course it's not the scenario here (More like opposite, and everyone else has more knowledge) but it does bring up the question of whether you're ever good enough not to catch flak. I don't think so. Industry-leading experts with multi-million dollar revenue and lots of employees catch flak basically all the same.

I think that's just how it is posting on the internet nowadays, especially if you're a cunt like I am.

EDIT: Sorry piligrim, I missed your post.

If you want to improve just get 5 ply all wood blade and acuda S2 on both sides. Stop reading forum about blades and rubbers. It's just wasting time.

That's how I played for the first 4000~ hours and clearly it's not working for me LOL. Maybe 4000 more.

 

[blahness]

Yes, right now probably the most painful movement is the pendulum service, so like you I've been serving exclusively hook services lol. My BH I think is mostly fine now, but my FH will take some time to fix I'm sure. Given how new this problem is though I'm hopeful that the fix won't take too long.

Today my wrist feels better, so that's a good sign that my tactics from the practice last night is working. Just gotta have more reps with the new stroke now, cuz I tried playing a couple practice sets last night and it was awful. I was just sooo tentative with my FH.

Gotta be careful with the wrist and take it easy. You've already improved so much in such a short span.

When i last injured it it was horrible to deal with and i had to rehab for a really long time.

With FH i also changed my brushing method to almost pure forearm pronation + using my 2nd joint (1st being the knuckle) of the index finger to press onto the blade. My wrist itself doesnt move all that much and stays relatively stable in a neutral position.

i found out that the really important part is the braking of the stroke (ie how the momentum is absorbed). If it goes to the wrist then it would really mess up the wrist. If it goes to the shoulder it is the same. Best to use the bending at the left hip joint to absorb the momentum imo and let the rest of the stroke decelerate naturally.

 

[piligrim]

@jk1980

My estimate is that my playing level is at most 1200 USATT (but probably lower), or Division 7 in Australia. I'm sure on a bad day it can dip into 8 as well. I've gotten told I can't really play in 9 because it'd be unfair to the opponents, so at least I'm not at the very bottom.

Your 1000 TTR estimate is high, because 1000 TTR is about Division 4-5 here I think. I can't rally with people like that yet. Once in a while I will steal a set or two off them, but it doesn't mean anything. A lot of things need to go my way and a lot of things need to not go their way for that to happen.

No comment on forehand efficacy because you clearly have watched all of the sets I've played against all of the players I've played so you know better the results of my shots than I do. Thanks for the info. I'll have to go back and retract the results of a few sets because those balls actually came back and we just made an error of judgement.

Thanks also for telling me that apparently I think I'm serving backspin. I didn't even notice. I thought I was serving light top and light side-back but apparently you know better than I do what I thought.

@ThePongCommenter

If I want to even have a chance against the middle division players here, all of my 3rd balls need to be like that. I guess about 50-60% actually are. If I serve topspin to my partner mixed in with other serves I'm sure I'll get a lot of chances to hit like that, so I'll try to remember to film one or two sets like that next time.

A few times I've hit with not-boosted-for-a-while 42A National H3 on Viscaria and I found it easy enough to handle. It wouldn't be my first pick, but it's the truth. You don't need to like it when I say it, but I'm not going to pretend like something wasn't how it was. Now maybe our standards differ and your idea of handling it is different from mine. I wasn't getting as much quality on the ball as the owner, that's for sure.

@NextLevel

I don't know why that feels unsafe now. Logically I know I should just take them off the bounce or at apex and drive them pretty flat (Sometimes I do, like 9:48 in sets A) but I'm not deciding to most of the time. Maybe it's because I tend to default to a low backswing and by then it's just too late? I'll need to make a rule that balls above the net also get a backswing above the table or something and see how that goes.

I've gotten some comments that my hitrate against a popup return against my topspin serve is much better than my hitrate against any other kind of weak return and I thought it had to do with the kind of ball that's coming back (Handling top better than back), but maybe it's better because I know that it's probably not gonna be backspin and I'm just more ready to smack it earlier and higher?

@JustANoob

You don't need to care what people on the internet say. Even if you're incredible and humble, someone will still shit on you somewhere. I encourage you to post footage either way (If everyone involved is comfortable being on film, of course. You don't need to if you don't want to.) if not just because other people see a lot of things you won't see immediately. Most people are also relatively nice here.

I'm a subject matter expert in another field and I get shit on a lot more than I do here when I post about it to consumers and hobbyists. Of course it's not the scenario here (More like opposite, and everyone else has more knowledge) but it does bring up the question of whether you're ever good enough not to catch flak. I don't think so. Industry-leading experts with multi-million dollar revenue and lots of employees catch flak basically all the same.

I think that's just how it is posting on the internet nowadays, especially if you're a cunt like I am.

EDIT: Sorry piligrim, I missed your post.



That's how I played for the first 4000~ hours and clearly it's not working for me LOL. Maybe 4000 more.

Need coach

 

[Archosaurus]

Need coach

All the coaches for my level do around here is block and feed multi. I already do that for free with some of the better players. Many players even at a decently higher level come to the same conclusion and just stop paying them after a few sessions. I won't completely knock it before I try it, but for now I'm not so fussed. If I can play in Division 7 next year and maybe 6 the year after that I'm ahead of my schedule already!

A bit more footage for context. This is my partner blocking what I consider a "30%" shot. It's about the highest shot I can do for him which will have more than one come back. I am not making excuses when I say that he can't actually block my real shot. It's just literally how it is. I can film some footage next time of him blocking a real shot if it makes the schizos happier.

He knows it is so and is improving every day. He has no complex about it nor does he diminish or exaggerate anything about it. I'm sure in a few months he will be able to do it just fine and we can do more advanced drills. I feel like we have a much better idea of our capabilities after training together for dozens of hours than some guy on a forum who hasn't seen 1% of it.

I also train with better players who have higher capabilities and I won't waste my time doing these kind of exercises. We do other things which are useful in other ways, like multiball, 2/3 point drills, serve receive drills and so on. These people can block my normal shot for probably half a dozen times before the quality changes at all. In games I'll almost always win on the 5th ball and not the 3rd. This too I know better than a random person on the internet who hasn't seen one second of a session with these people. Maybe some day if they agree to I can even film and post 5 or 10 minutes.

EDIT: re: physics posting. Like NL said, TT isn't learned from logic but from practice. Even if you know the dynamics well, it won't really help you play very well at all. Maybe you get a little bit of a benefit vs someone who doesn't understand anything. Things like understanding that you need to angle the racket and so on. The rest you need to learn by doing.

How many rubber engineers do you know who have a high rating, or even play the sport at all? I'm sure 90% of them have never played seriously at all. You hire experts to evaluate the performance for you. Ideally you'd also be an expert player, but due to the physical nature of TT, this is problematic. I'm not sure a person like that actually exists in the world. If someone knows one, please tell me about them.

In motorsport engineering it's much the same and the engineers who make tires and suspensions can't drive at all. In simulation however it is a bit different, and all of the really skilled guys I know can also drive at a professional level. There's some theoretical aspects you don't understand as well before you also have a high level of control in the practice. Just due to practical concerns you will also need to be able to match the performance of professionals if you're going to be driver-in-the-loop correlating to their data. However I would not say the sim guys actually have the same theoretical understanding that the guys actually engineering the real parts do. So it's complicated.

Personally I don't care if people get angry about it. People get angry when I post million-dollar information for free about my field as well. People get angry if you post anything. Right or wrong, someone is angry somewhere.

EDIT: Video stabilization was on automatically. If I understood it right that might mean a variable shutter speed to reduce motion blur, which might be interacting badly with the lighting in the venue because of a rate mismatch. I can't guarantee that'll fix the strobing effect, I feel like it won't fix it because the framerate is desynced from the power grid frequency anyway but I'll try it anyway.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

A bit more footage for context. This is my partner blocking what I consider a "30%" shot. It's about the highest shot I can do for him which will have more than one come back. I am not making excuses when I say that he can't actually block my real shot. It's just literally how it is. I can film some footage next time of him blocking a real shot if it makes the schizos happier.

The problem here is that your partner isn't blocking lol.

 

[Archosaurus]

The problem here is that your partner isn't blocking lol.

Lol, yeah. His strokes are unstable as far as what stroke he is making. He's definitely more of a power player on the backhand and doesn't really know how to feel the ball and use the opponent's spin. Of course a lot of it is my inconsistency as well. He does a little bit better if an expert player hits to him in a conservative way, but it's still every 3rd or 4th ball out.

I think it'd be easier to block if I gave him a faster shot, but he has issues actually getting the bat to the ball if it's too fast. So we need to start slow. He also says he has a hard time understanding what kind of shot he made on the backhand. I think his sensing is better for the forehand. His grip is also generally forehand oriented and not really so suited to backhand strokes. He's learning a more backhand oriented shakehand grip lately and he says he's not used to it yet. Normally he has his index finger all the way up the rubber like in the cell ball era.

He's improving a lot though. I think it'll be really different by the time next year comes around. Especially once he gets used to his grip change and his new shoes get broken in (He wasn't wearing proper shoes in the first video from a month ago ) and I get more used to his returns.

We filmed a bunch of hit vs block drills but the angle was kinda bad (court next to us got occupied so we moved the tripod) and it's nothing special really. Once we start getting a little more stable I'll upload some for critique. I gotta start using more body in my backhand so I'll want some pointers on that later.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Lol, yeah. His strokes are unstable as far as what stroke he is making. He's definitely more of a power player on the backhand and doesn't really know how to feel the ball and use the opponent's spin. Of course a lot of it is my inconsistency as well. He does a little bit better if an expert player hits to him in a conservative way, but it's still every 3rd or 4th ball out.

I think it'd be easier to block if I gave him a faster shot, but he has issues actually getting the bat to the ball if it's too fast. So we need to start slow. He also says he has a hard time understanding what kind of shot he made on the backhand. I think his sensing is better for the forehand. His grip is also generally forehand oriented and not really so suited to backhand strokes. He's learning a more backhand oriented shakehand grip lately and he says he's not used to it yet. Normally he has his index finger all the way up the rubber like in the cell ball era.

He's improving a lot though. I think it'll be really different by the time next year comes around. Especially once he gets used to his grip change and his new shoes get broken in (He wasn't wearing proper shoes in the first video from a month ago ) and I get more used to his returns.

We filmed a bunch of hit vs block drills but the angle was kinda bad (court next to us got occupied so we moved the tripod) and it's nothing special really. Once we start getting a little more stable I'll upload some for critique. I gotta start using more body in my backhand so I'll want some pointers on that later.

Grip orientation, index finger position, shoes...

The problems are that:
1) he starts below the ball and then is lifting it up, rather than pressing it down
2) he is adding spin to the incoming topspin rather than contacting it flat
3) he is accelerating at contact rather than absorbing

Start him there and watch the magic happen. None of that other stuff matters until he gets those 3 in place.

 

[Archosaurus]

Grip orientation, index finger position, shoes...

The problems are that:
1) he starts below the ball and then is lifting it up, rather than pressing it down
2) he is adding spin to the incoming topspin rather than contacting it flat
3) he is accelerating at contact rather than absorbing

Start him there and watch the magic happen. None of that other stuff matters until he gets those 3 in place.

Yeah, I agree. That's what I told him to do. He got a lot better during the course of the video. The ones I showed were some of the better ones. We'll work on it more until it's solid and I'll try to find ways to make it easy to do the right stroke.

But I think it's also more complicated than that. Half of the time he can't get his bat behind the ball to even start the stroke and it just hits him in the chest, the corner of the bat or his finger. I'm sure you're not close to a beginner anymore so you might not remember how hard basic stuff like that is.

 

[Tyce]

I mean this in the best way possible, but you're both dressed like you're not here to play sports. It feeds into the impression that you're not taking this seriously, especially with just having conversations during a rally. Of course in practice you have a bit of a talk but when you toss the serve, you should be in focus mode.
If either of you seriously want to improve, you have to up the intensity. You can absolutely play 20% power strokes and then challenge yourself on footwork and come out of it a way stronger player, and the same goes for your opponent.
He can't improve his strokes, because he stands behind the table like he doesn't want to be there. And if you're out of position, and out of posture, you won't be able to angle the strokes correctly, and you won't feel the shot connecting when you do it right. So there's no positive feedback loop to be found for him.

Footwork connects all of this. Find yourself in the right place, and you can make the shot, with quality, with little effort from the arm. Get into position and everything becomes 10x easier to execute.

 

[Archosaurus]

I mean this in the best way possible, but you're both dressed like you're not here to play sports. It feeds into the impression that you're not taking this seriously, especially with just having conversations during a rally. Of course in practice you have a bit of a talk but when you toss the serve, you should be in focus mode.
If either of you seriously want to improve, you have to up the intensity. You can absolutely play 20% power strokes and then challenge yourself on footwork and come out of it a way stronger player, and the same goes for your opponent.
He can't improve his strokes, because he stands behind the table like he doesn't want to be there. And if you're out of position, and out of posture, you won't be able to angle the strokes correctly, and you won't feel the shot connecting when you do it right. So there's no positive feedback loop to be found for him.

Footwork connects all of this. Find yourself in the right place, and you can make the shot, with quality, with little effort from the arm. Get into position and everything becomes 10x easier to execute.

We're not serious players at all though, I'm not sure where that impression came from. My partner hasn't even attended his first actual training session yet, although he said he's coming to the next one. It's unlikely we'll become serious players any time soon if ever.

I'm teaching him a bit about serve receive theory and stance theory and all that, but it's not like I'm an expert, so my advice is unconvincing at best and incorrect at worst.

I'm not super fussed about clothing because I know getting a TT shirt and TT shorts will do absolutely nothing to my game, but I'll need to get some shorts for competition due to rules. What I'm wearing doesn't restrict me at all and I've seen international players train in a t-shirt and trackies. I'd argue the shoes are the main thing, you gotta have decent ones, and we both have decent ones now. My partner did express all his t-shirts are ill-fitting and too heavy for sports, so he might get something better. I'll probably buy some shorts later just for cooling reasons; it's always too hot in Australia for me LOL.

 

[Tyce]

We're not serious players at all though, I'm not sure where that impression came from.

I get that from the video, but that's not what I get from your forum posts. From what I read, I think you have ambitions but can't find the resources (coaching, partners etc) to get any further.
If that's not the case and you just want to remain the level you're at now, then sure, don't change your rubber, clothes, training attitude and whatnot.

My partner hasn't even attended his first actual training session yet, although he said he's coming to the next one. It's unlikely we'll become serious players any time soon if ever.

I'm teaching him a bit about serve receive theory and stance theory and all that, but it's not like I'm an expert, so my advice is unconvincing at best and incorrect at worst.

I'm not super fussed about clothing because I know getting a TT shirt and TT shorts will do absolutely nothing to my game, but I'll need to get some shorts for competition due to rules. What I'm wearing doesn't restrict me at all and I've seen international players train in a t-shirt and trackies.

Me too, but that's for a cooldown or warmup sessions. When shit gets serious, those trackies come off.

I'd argue the shoes are the main thing, you gotta have decent ones, and we both have decent ones now. My partner did express all his t-shirts are ill-fitting and too heavy for sports, so he might get something better. I'll probably buy some shorts later just for cooling reasons; it's always too hot in Australia for me LOL.

These clothes will start to restrict once you're dripping in sweat. You can't make full and swift use of your legs, knees will experience dragging on the trousers. It's harder to get to that deeper posture quickly because of that.