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World Cup 2024
- Thread starter kindof99
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- #ittf #world cup #wtt
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The point of a Match should be to win the match, not to win every Single set.
It favors some players more than others.
A Player like Dima, would be in a disadvantage as he usually takes time to fire up.
Timo usually also plays better in longer matches as he Reserves his energy and doesnt play an all out risky attacking game.
But with all these younger, modern Standard 3rd Ball Attackers where outside the top 15 there is rarely any stylistic differences, these Kind of "upsets" and inconsitencies can happen.
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With this kind of format, might as well decide the winner with a coin toss - these super short formats are basically full of RNG...
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according to Matt
yes
some genius decided to test it at a world cup, and inform everyone at the last min
no different to that of the "3 game" at mixed teams world cup
world cup seems to be the testing ground
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It makes sense in soccer/football since who knows how deep into extra time a match can go without a score. Penalty kicks are just coinflipping with the illusion of some agency.
But what's the point of this system in table tennis? There were a lot of 4-0 wins which means an extra game was played when it wasn't really necessary. Then you have the utter silliness of playing meaningless games like we saw all of today. I think the ref warned Moregard about behavior simply because he was going for trickshots and turning it into an exhibition. Instead he just dumped balls into the net and served off the table to get it over with.
Whoever came up with this idea clearly didn't think it through deeply enough.
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Football: We have garbage time!
Table Tennis: We have garbage games and garbage points now!
Table Tennis: We have garbage games and garbage points now!
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I hate the format as well, but I don't understand the behaviour. Couldn't you play this 'dead' game for the fun of playing? Or for the audience to see something beautiful? Because it is still a fun and beautiful sport, isn't it? Or it no longer is once you become a professional?
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Well Moregard tried to do that but then the ref gave him a warning. So I guess you're not allowed to.
Professionals also have to worry about their health and remain injury free. Them getting paid for an exhibition match is one thing, but why risk their livelihood when there are no stakes remaining?
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in a lot of domestic qualifications matching in Taiwan, some times the finals is pointless
ie, 2 players qualifier and both finalist will
if it is players from the same team/school, they will play one game for formality, and the winning of that game will then win the others 11-0, as agreed by both players.
there is just some times no purpose to play out something that is pointless
for a world cup match, there are tickets and to respect fans, maybe it is important to play probably.
but then, you can't blame the players for the format.
this is no difference than the badminton match where players were playing to loose, as they can calculate the results of the group table.
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no one knows what is going on
So, it was based on PW/L, which was the case for around 1.5hr
then ITTF change it to highest point, of which Harimoto is higher
If one was the record Point win/loss, then surely PW/L factor should outweigh?
3.11 agrees, but some how ITTF isn't following suite.
I think one needs to be a lawyer and a maths professor to know how something that was so simple, actually works.
So, it was based on PW/L, which was the case for around 1.5hr
then ITTF change it to highest point, of which Harimoto is higher
If one was the record Point win/loss, then surely PW/L factor should outweigh?
3.11 agrees, but some how ITTF isn't following suite.
I think one needs to be a lawyer and a maths professor to know how something that was so simple, actually works.
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Same thing with Harimoto. He won that 4th game and looked so relieved like he dodged a huge bullet. Then pan over to him 5 minutes later and he's crying on the bench next to the coach.
I think Harimoto believed the points as a tie breaker only applied to the current match with Groth. He won by more points in their 2-2 tie so he should rightfully win.
But ITTF apparently had the point win ratio apply over the entirety of the group, which seems to makes less sense. Maybe ITTF themselves didn't know which system they were actually using until it became an issue between Harimoto and Groth.
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Surely it isn't possible to change a ruleset mid-tournament, right?
Frankly, it's quite embarassing that something like this happens...
Plus, it doesn't seem very fair for Jonathan Groth to be out with a better point win/loss differential!
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no one knows what is going on.
i don't even think the umpire of the match would be clear
as Matt pointless out, world cup group stage players was used as a guinea pig for this new idea
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He probably saw the P W/L that Groth shared.
and everyone, including ITTF media staff, had Groth as winner.
then someone goes and update the draw result.
I wonder if this has ever happened in any sporting world cup.
In terms of point win ratio, Groth wins
in terms of most point win, Harimoto wins
Here is the rules:
3.11. Final ranking will be determined in terms of Regulation 3.7.5, excluding match points, and
based solely on the ratios of wins to losses first in games and then points, as far as is necessary
to resolve the order.
so it should be ratio of wins.. Groth wins!!
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Well that's the thing, nobody seems to know what the ruleset was.
Both Groth and Harimoto thought that only the points won/loss in *their match* mattered. As why would points against someone else matter? So they both played their matches with that assumption. This is why Groth didn't celebrate when announcers thought he had gotten through, and why Harimoto celebrated when he won.
So is it unfair to Groth when both players played under the "most points in the match not the group scenario?" Why is it fair that a random point or two more than a different player should determine which of the two should advance? Also, if both players had the wrong idea about what the rules were for advancing, then either both are dumb or the ITTF did a terrible job of conveying the rules to the players.
Either way the system is dumb to begin with.
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Well, it really is a mess then...
I hope they undertand that these kind of occurrences do not help the sport and pay more attention in the future! Although I doubt they care as much as we (players) do...
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What the hell?! That doesn’t make sense at all. Based on this if you win a game 15-13 it’s worth more than if you win 11-0. Who the hell came up with this??
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Most point wins is a dumb metric for winning though. It just means that Harimoto wound up going to deuce more often than Groth. That's not a sign of excellence at all.
The most obvious and fair rule is to go to whoever won the most points *between the two players* who are tied in games. In which case Harimoto should win. That determines the better player between the two players. Not just how well they matched up against someone else.
But if they were always intending to go with best point win ratio across the entire group, they're not allowed to change it as that would super shady. But maybe they didn't even convey that to the players since both Groth and Harimoto thought only points in their match mattered. So ITTF is either to blame here for creating unfair criteria or at least not telling the players about the unfair criteria.
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