WTT Singapore Smash 2024 3/7-3/17

[blahness]

I think it's probably very difficult for the umpires to see that the pendulum serve goes behind his head, only back cameras so far have been able to detect that. You mentioned earlier that there's some faint moment in time where the ball is visible.
Unlike the shovel or hook serve that looks obviously shorter than a normal toss, and has some head arm action going on.
Lin didn't stop using his hook serve though, It's also very interesting that today WCQ stuck to the pendulums.

Yes, but the rule clearly states that the ball has to be visible at all times without exception, regardless of whether it's before during or after contact....

LYJ didn't use the traditional low toss hook serve, the one he was serving was more the high toss version which can't generate significant topspin - most of the variation is between heavy underspin to no spin or light sidetop.

 

[NextLevel]

He's soft.

I think these kinds of narratives around athletes without being familiar with their individual situations, while fair game, are very likely to be naive or completely wrong (after all, FZD and LJK are fatties). The truth is that LYJ has done a lot of physical work to get stronger and Bobrow has said as much and I am fairly sure I remember related videos/social media photos. None of us know the details of his genetics etc. and whether he is well built for hypertrophy (though it is quite possible to get much stronger without significant visual signs of hypertrophy).

Finding the right balance is also tricky (remember that Harimoto gained a lot of strength, and now he is running to reduce bulk and add mobility). Again, not trying to say people don't have a right to their conjectures, especially when their favorite players are not performing up to their lofty standards. But that we need to have some perspective when we are not close enough to the situation or collecting information from someone who might be.

 

[Kopp]

Damn, Ma Long carried that match. So glad he got his first WTT title!

Just a quick note to anyone who might think this was Ma Long's first WTT title!

ML was actually the very first Men's Singles champion at the WTT Championships.

It was the WTT Macao 2020, held in Macao, China from November 25th to 29th.

ML dominated the finals, defeating WCQ 5-1.

Sun Yingsha also secured the win in the Women's Singles.

 

[dingyibvs]

Watching some of the youth contenders. Looks like the next generation of Indian women will also be pips players. Let's see how this strategy pans out in the long run. In the U15 boys Li Hechen looks promising. Polished service/receive game, a lot of power, but currently pretty bad in rallies, very low consistency compared to his opponent Ma. Rally game is probably easier to improve, so I like Li's ceiling better. Right now though, his poor rally skills may prevent him from getting to the top.

 

[Shine]

It's because his legs failed him at the 5th set... it was clear that his legs got a lot slower and less explosive after a few brilliant topspins to lead 4-1 in the 5th set and then losing 7 straight points after that. You could see that he was starting to make topspins with his arm and there are form breakdowns because his legs were not giving enough to him to work with.

There's a reason why all the CNT players have large, thick explosive legs, so that they can sustain very high performance, high quality shots even in gruelling conditions.

Imo there's no excuse for LYJ to be so stubborn and not put in the effort to build up his leg muscles much more.
Weight training is known science at this point of time and everyone (even Harimoto) is doing a lot of it...

WCQ doesn't look all that bulky especially in the lower body to me, I've always thought the ever present knee band was due to the strain of his style on the ligaments in that region.
Lin YJ doesn't look noticeably less fit than Wang.


Lin GY also looks thing and doesn't have noticeable quads, but his upper body is big especially his left arm. I think YJ already did a lot of strength training. That was arguably one of the things that helped in defeating WCQ last year after back to back to back 3-0 losses.

I think something that I've noticed is that aspects of the game that players have to work on after they've already been established always need constant reinforcement and fine-tuning, because during down periods; that's the first part of their game that'll fall apart. It's why we see cycles of Hari being great on forehand, and then being poor on FH and movement. Fan playing supremely well at top form, and being really vulnerable on his short FH when he's in a slump.

 

[Shine]

Just a quick note to anyone who might think this was Ma Long's first WTT title!

ML was actually the very first Men's Singles champion at the WTT Championships.

It was the WTT Macao 2020, held in Macao, China from November 25th to 29th.

ML dominated the finals, defeating WCQ 5-1.

Sun Yingsha also secured the win in the Women's Singles.

How many finals has WCQ been in in this cycle, as compared to his equals like FZD, TH, LYJ, LJK LGY and ML??

 

[zeio]

WTT Macao 2020 was an exhibition event (note the missing event tier), played with ad hoc scoring and match format that no one understood, not even counted in the H2H. It's an embarrassing page in WTT history.

https://www.ittf.com/tournament/5265/wtt-macao/
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Scoring.pdf
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Playing_Format.pdf

 

[blahness]

WCQ doesn't look all that bulky especially in the lower body to me, I've always thought the ever present knee band was due to the strain of his style on the ligaments in that region.
Lin YJ doesn't look noticeably less fit than Wang.


Lin GY also looks thing and doesn't have noticeable quads, but his upper body is big especially his left arm. I think YJ already did a lot of strength training. That was arguably one of the things that helped in defeating WCQ last year after back to back to back 3-0 losses.

I think something that I've noticed is that aspects of the game that players have to work on after they've already been established always need constant reinforcement and fine-tuning, because during down periods; that's the first part of their game that'll fall apart. It's why we see cycles of Hari being great on forehand, and then being poor on FH and movement. Fan playing supremely well at top form, and being really vulnerable on his short FH when he's in a slump.

WCQ is very tall so it doesn't look so significant - but he has become a lot more physically stronger and explosive since a few years ago when he was first debuting. LYJ hasn't really made the same amount of improvements....

 

[Metaxa]

That's wrong. As you rotate your body to make the service, the active arm/shoulder moves back, not forward.

Yes of course, first to the back of course, then to the front. If you are completely at the side of a table, you should try positioning your throwing hand behind the baseline....

 

[mikeytt]

wtt have a broadcast with the traditional back angle :

however the camera seems quite unstable and there's lots of shaking going on

 

[Metaxa]

It's not over the table though it is close - I viewed many slowmos. The main thing he does is that the ball passes behind his ear instead of in front of his eyes on the way down. This makes a lot of the path hidden (illegally), and then you get a tiny glimpse of the ball when it gets contacted and then no more.

I actually tried his method of serving, it is damn difficult to do and time the contact this way, it has to be trained deliberately.

Everything starts with the positioning of your body. If you already stand next to the table, this facilitates giving an illegal service. All players who stand with their body ¾ beside the table do this to score a point as quickly as possible with their 3rd ball. Add to this the hiding of the ball (by head or other body part) at the point of contact between racket and ball and you can speak of intensive training on this movement for the sole purpose of doing it illegally. I find the fact that referees draw little to no attention to this the worst of all, but also the (opposing) players who do make legal services (by serving behind the baseline and throwing up at least 16 cm) are to blame because they dare not respond to their opponent out of respect for them.
It could all be remedied very simply if there was hawkeye, the umpires also dared to respond and there would be some new regulations that would prohibit taking a seat at the side of the table. Ban that and there will already be many more legal services.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Potential Olympic Champion WMY 4-1 (11-1 in the 5th) over WYD.

 

[blahness]

Everything starts with the positioning of your body. If you already stand next to the table, this facilitates giving an illegal service. All players who stand with their body ¾ beside the table do this to score a point as quickly as possible with their 3rd ball. Add to this the hiding of the ball (by head or other body part) at the point of contact between racket and ball and you can speak of intensive training on this movement for the sole purpose of doing it illegally. I find the fact that referees draw little to no attention to this the worst of all, but also the (opposing) players who do make legal services (by serving behind the baseline and throwing up at least 16 cm) are to blame because they dare not respond to their opponent out of respect for them.
It could all be remedied very simply if there was hawkeye, the umpires also dared to respond and there would be some new regulations that would prohibit taking a seat at the side of the table. Ban that and there will already be many more legal services.

It is possible to serve legally from WCQ's position. In fact a lot of pros serve with the left leg on the side of the table within the end line. It doesn't mean that they will serve over the table, that depends on where the ball is contacted. However there's an increased risk of serving over the table in such a stance indeed.

But tbh hiding with the head is a major advantage and this is what many players do unfairly. I would blame Maharu Yoshimura for starting the trend....

 

[Robin0910]

Is the stream with the regular angle not loading in for others either? (For the viewers who’re trying now.)

 

[piligrim]

It's because his legs failed him at the 5th set... it was clear that his legs got a lot slower and less explosive after a few brilliant topspins to lead 4-1 in the 5th set and then losing 7 straight points after that. You could see that he was starting to make topspins with his arm and there are form breakdowns because his legs were not giving enough to him to work with.

There's a reason why all the CNT players have large, thick explosive legs, so that they can sustain very high performance, high quality shots even in gruelling conditions.

Imo there's no excuse for LYJ to be so stubborn and not put in the effort to build up his leg muscles much more.
Weight training is known science at this point of time and everyone (even Harimoto) is doing a lot of it...

With this legs he got to top 5 so legs should be fine

 

[blahness]

With this legs he got to top 5 so legs should be fine

Yes but if he got stronger he might be a top2-3 contender...

 

[Emin]

WCQ switching racket because of something on the rubber.

Interesting occasion...

 

[NextLevel]

That was impressive. Definitely a higher level than I remember seeing from even most players I consider physical.

 

[blahness]

WCQ simply unplayable in this tournament, he was just hitting all outrageous high quality shots with no regard to safety and still landing them, and even against the high degree of spin from LJK.

LJK didn't receive his serves all that badly imo.

 

[FIXPOINT]