How does future chinese players will overcome the plastic ball lack of rotation?

eduardo1995filipe · Jun 12, 2018

Hi guys!

First of all, I don't want to start a new war between Chinese player fans and Harimoto fans, I'm fan of both!! [emoji6][emoji2] But seemed obvious, that the "viable" playstyle will be the way that Harimoto plays, and not the way that current Chinese players like ZJK, ML, or XX, but how rising chinese players will overcome the problem of the game that is speed oriented and not so spin friendly like it was with the old cell ball?

Thanks in advance!
Best Regards,
Eduardo

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TheKevinFang · Jun 12, 2018

It isn't a case of spin as much as changing styles.

In 2014-16 nobody was critiquing the Chinese, even Xu Xin.

Now that Harimoto has the optimal style, it's up to the youth to catch up. Lin Gaoyuan has already adopted this new style, and only became really successful with the plastic ball!

Ilia Minkin · Jun 12, 2018

Drag the penhold racket with short pips out of the closet and blow dust from it?

laistrogian · Jun 12, 2018

Rather than saying it's the plastic ball, I think we are finding that the younger male players are playing fast close to table style rather than taking two steps back and pounding balls.

FZD is a prime example of this and you can see how hard it is for players to deal with the fast strong counterloop that he excels in

ttmonster · Jun 12, 2018

I think at this point in time there are atleast 3-4 active threads which are discussing this same topic ...

Der_Echte · Jun 12, 2018

ttmonster, the honey trap bait bunny rabbit had babies and it has now multiplied to 8 threads.

Quick Robin, break out the research nuclear sewer rats !!

hillwalker · Jun 12, 2018

On reflection, playing closer to the table seems like an inevitable adjustment to the slower ball.

If you have the same reaction time, but the ball is slower, you move can closer and still get to the ball in time. And if you are hitting the larger ball with the same power, so it has the same speed off the bat, but it is slowing down quicker due to the increased air resistance, the closer you can move to the table (and closer to your opponent) the faster the ball will be travelling when it reaches him.

Takkyu_wa_inochi · Jun 12, 2018

WTF we've been playing with plastic balls for many years now... i can't remember the last time i played with celluloid.
Probably I would miss all my touch shots if i played with a celluloid ball.

Pros have had more than enough time to adapt. If they cannot adapt after all those years, they are not pros

eduardo1995filipe · Jun 12, 2018

laistrogian said:
Rather than saying it's the plastic ball, I think we are finding that the younger male players are playing fast close to table style rather than taking two steps back and pounding balls.

FZD is a prime example of this and you can see how hard it is for players to deal with the fast strong counterloop that he excels in

Yeap I think that's the trend now, miss old times [emoji12][emoji12][emoji12]

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eduardo1995filipe · Jun 12, 2018

hillwalker said:
On reflection, playing closer to the table seems like an inevitable adjustment to the slower ball.

If you have the same reaction time, but the ball is slower, you move can closer and still get to the ball in time. And if you are hitting the larger ball with the same power, so it has the same speed off the bat, but it is slowing down quicker due to the increased air resistance, the closer you can move to the table (and closer to your opponent) the faster the ball will be travelling when it reaches him.

Maybe poly ball will make the career of the players end sooner as it's more physical demanding.

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eduardo1995filipe · Jun 12, 2018

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:
WTF we've been playing with plastic balls for many years now... i can't remember the last time i played with celluloid.
Probably I would miss all my touch shots if i played with a celluloid ball.

Pros have had more than enough time to adapt. If they cannot adapt after all those years, they are not pros

I agree with you. But as younger, was easier to harimoto to adapt and format his playstyle to the poly ball than the old "cell masters"

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amoc · Jun 12, 2018

the difference is that the old "cell masters" had to adopt. the young poly guns grew up with the new balls. An can develop a poly style without changing long year trained behaviour.

langel · Jun 12, 2018

Harimoto started to play TT at age of 2.
He have played more than 8 years with the old cell ball and only half of that - less than 4 years, with the plastic.
Its not the ball.

TheKevinFang · Jun 12, 2018

langel said:
Harimoto started to play TT at age of 2.
He have played more than 8 years with the old cell ball and only half of that - less than 4 years, with the plastic.
Its not the ball.

Young players have the propensity to learn/adapt quicker due to the comparatively lower muscle memory + some biological reasoning. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly as correlation doesn't always equal causation!

amoc · Jun 12, 2018

langel said:
Harimoto started to play TT at age of 2.
He have played more than 8 years with the old cell ball and only half of that - less than 4 years, with the plastic.
Its not the ball.

so he played 1/3 of his tt-life with plastic
Lets assume ML started with 5 years. 4 years of plastic, 24 years tt-live in summary: quotient: 1/6

I think this is a different way to find a correlation ;-)

langel · Jun 12, 2018

TheKevinFang said:
Young players have the propensity to learn/adapt quicker due to the comparatively lower muscle memory + some biological reasoning. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly as correlation doesn't always equal causation!

Exactly what I mean.
The many threads which suddenly apeared after Japan Open 2018 are quick jump to concluions, that I don't think are correctly linked to reality.

langel · Jun 12, 2018

amoc said:
so he played 1/3 of his tt-life with plastic
Lets assume ML started with 5 years. 4 years of plastic, 24 years tt-live in summary: quotient: 1/6

I think this is a different way to find a correlation ;-)

Good math.
Again : no Harimoto - no problems for the Masters.

The ball is a very hypothetical question.
With the same conviction one may say that if the ball have not been changed Harimoto would beat ML to Zero.

TheKevinFang · Jun 12, 2018

langel said:
Exactly what I mean.
The many threads which suddenly apeared after Japan Open 2018 are quick jump to concluions, that I don't think are correctly linked to reality.

Very true, I think we have to give the kid credit where credit is due. A lot of players do play like Harimoto, for example Lin Gaoyuan who is also a beast and has improved a lot (even gave Harimoto a beating!). Maybe players of this new trend style improve faster - but these players are young and you have to attribute a lot of their improvement to overcoming growing pains. For example, why didn't Lin Gaoyuan take over the scene from 2013-16? He had 3 years to! Sometimes players have bursts of rapid development, Harimoto is probably going through one of those which can be attributed to puberty maybe..

TheKevinFang · Jun 12, 2018

langel said:
Good math.
Again : no Harimoto - no problems for the Masters.

The ball is a very hypothetical question.
With the same conviction one may say that if the ball have not been changed Harimoto would beat ML to Zero.

Yep.

One thing I will add, unrelated to table tennis. It is the gender wage gap, or the wage gap between genders per se. Through multivariate analysis, gender is NOT the only reason for the wage gap, rather there are other factor such as agreeableness or wanting to retire early. So if women looked exactly like men you think the wage would be exactly equal? No, there are other factors influencing the gap which is a lesson for anytime people try to use a scapegoat to reason why something changes.

Sorry to go so deep, but while there could be a new trend due to the ABS ball, if we assume nothing changed, I would bet that even if Harimoto wouldn't beat Ma Long, he would still have a degree of success due to other factors such as training hours

langel · Jun 12, 2018

Agree.

And other questions - a lot of speculations about plastic and ABS being Master killers, LGL missing and so on...
What about Yu Harimoto? What about other coaches, all of them used to cell balls? What if ML regains his authocracy after all, never mind of coach and ball? What would be the speculations then?

Its the player who makes the game, not the equipment.
The equipment is an instrument, the instrument needs a mastery, and mastery depends on talent+addiction+work.

How does future chinese players will overcome the plastic ball lack of rotation?

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