19th Asian Games Hangzhou

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Japan vs Iran

Match 1: Tomokazu Harimoto vs Nima Alamian

Match 2: Shunsuke Togami vs Noshad Alamiyan

Match 3: Maharu Yoshimura vs Amir Hossein Hodaei

 

[zeio]

日本输伊朗其实不是很意外。 (Japan losing to Iran is actually not a surprise.)

日本输伊朗其实不是很意外。【奥运乒乓吧】_百度贴吧

日本输伊朗其实不是很..首先来看日本的阵容，张本，户上，吉村。除了张本其他两个是啥水平? 根本谈不上高手，就去年这俩世界排名才多少，这俩本来就是偶尔发挥一下，在wtt输了多少无名选手。户上有潜力 ，但是目前远谈不上高手，吉村

tieba.baidu.com

咒術少校 日本男隊自這周期開始以內戰為基準後實力就大幅下降了 除了摩托其他人在國際上根本沒有實績 他一輸整隊的情況就會很危險 而他壓力也極大
IP属地:中国香港来自iPhone客户端2楼2023-09-25 07:03回复 (The strength of the Japanese men's team has dropped significantly since the beginning of this cycle with the civil war as the basis. Except for Moto, the others have no actual results in the international stage. Once he loses the situation will be very dangerous for the entire team, and he is also under extreme pressure.)

 

[fore.n.back]

日本输伊朗其实不是很意外。 (Japan losing to Iran is actually not a surprise.)

日本输伊朗其实不是很意外。【奥运乒乓吧】_百度贴吧

日本输伊朗其实不是很..首先来看日本的阵容，张本，户上，吉村。除了张本其他两个是啥水平? 根本谈不上高手，就去年这俩世界排名才多少，这俩本来就是偶尔发挥一下，在wtt输了多少无名选手。户上有潜力 ，但是目前远谈不上高手，吉村

tieba.baidu.com

咒術少校 日本男隊自這周期開始以內戰為基準後實力就大幅下降了 除了摩托其他人在國際上根本沒有實績 他一輸整隊的情況就會很危險 而他壓力也極大
IP属地:中国香港来自iPhone客户端2楼2023-09-25 07:03回复 (The strength of the Japanese men's team has dropped significantly since the beginning of this cycle with the civil war as the basis. Except for Moto, the others have no actual results in the international stage. Once he loses the situation will be very dangerous for the entire team, and he is also under extreme pressure.)

all praises to Mr. Miyazaki, raising a cycle of players who are experts at beating none but each other up

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

all praises to Mr. Miyazaki, raising a cycle of players who are experts at beating none but each other up

While I was talking how weak the 2nd tier Chinese has become, I actually never thought of how terrible the 1st tier Japanese has become, other than HT.
I guess, world teams last year, with HT winning both against China, gave a false impression that things are still okay for Japan. I was still saying, that is the closes Japan has gotten to beat China. But that is just HT being exception by beating WR1 and WR2 on the same day.

But seriously speaking, the previous 1st tier/2nd tier Japanese, could still beat Chinese players.
Nowadays, the 1st tier, other than HT has terrible winning records, and are not really your top 20 players
one ranking WR41, the other ranking WR79

Look at how terrible these two have performed this year. QF finish the best? Or winning some feeder event?
There is so many tournaments available to take part in, but the amount of R16 is lower is not a good sign for JNT.

In fact, no other player than HT has showed consistent success on WTT circuit. They only showed consistent failures.

 

[kingkimchi]

When you have to play for your next meal you will play like superman.

serious danger there.... lets hope you don't get, you know.

 

[Emin]

The Iranians really made the Koreans work for it!

 

[zeio]

ALIREZA MODIRI, reporter from Iran: I feel amazing. I get goosebumps, you know... amazing. To beat the 2nd team in the world, it's really amazing...

【杭州亚运会】伊朗乒乓球男团半决赛对阵韩国 伊朗记者：想和中国队决赛相见-中新网视频

【杭州亚运会】伊朗乒乓球男团半决赛对阵韩国 伊朗记者：想和中国队决赛相见

www.chinanews.com.cn

 

[Gtsnake]

serious danger there.... lets hope you don't get, you know.

You mean "dissappeared"? I know you can't talk bad about dictatorship like N Korea or China or something might happen to you.

 

[fore.n.back]

While I was talking how weak the 2nd tier Chinese has become, I actually never thought of how terrible the 1st tier Japanese has become, other than HT.
I guess, world teams last year, with HT winning both against China, gave a false impression that things are still okay for Japan. I was still saying, that is the closes Japan has gotten to beat China. But that is just HT being exception by beating WR1 and WR2 on the same day.

But seriously speaking, the previous 1st tier/2nd tier Japanese, could still beat Chinese players.
Nowadays, the 1st tier, other than HT has terrible winning records, and are not really your top 20 players
one ranking WR41, the other ranking WR79

Look at how terrible these two have performed this year. QF finish the best? Or winning some feeder event?
There is so many tournaments available to take part in, but the amount of R16 is lower is not a good sign for JNT.

View attachment 26786

View attachment 26787


In fact, no other player than HT has showed consistent success on WTT circuit. They only showed consistent failures.

their resume is just too depressing lmao, and tbf HT didn't do much better than them

 

[NextLevel]

I honestly think that people are drawing conclusions that are too strong from one match - the Japanese men did pretty well in the last WTTTC. It's unfortunate that they dealt with an inspired opponent who was motivated to win and the fear was contagious after Harimoto lost and the Iranians put up resistance. But if we had a rematch, is anyone betting on Iran? Seriously?

Japan will be fine, they just need to accept the gift of failure.

 

[fore.n.back]

View attachment 26789

The Iranians really made the Koreans work for it!

This match only proves that: "always work on your forehand". The Koreans prioritize their use of forehand, even in tight situations they can rely on making a forehand kill. Japanese always try to develop the point from the backhand, more pace, less spin and power, less efficiency.

 

[fore.n.back]

Chinese fans' commentary on Japan's loss to Iran

Oh, for anyone interested, I suggest you guys check out this thread on Zhihu. Some comments delve quite deep into the loopholes in their playstyle and tactics.

 

[zeio]

Can't wait to see Miyazaki speak about fairness with a straight face after this. Selecting players that you don't trust, don't feel safe and don't want to field in actual matches is fair to them? What's the point of having Oikawa and Matsushita sit there if they couldn't even offload some of the pressure when necessary, the least that they could do? The team lineup is so inflexible they can't even mix it up, every team knows and hence prepares for Harimoto as 1st singles, Togami as 2nd singles and Yoshimura as 3rd singles. The revamped selection system ends up being a farce because of rigidity.

Look at South Korea. Yoo Namkyu *bleep* up the last Olympic cycle with the "infinite/endless competition". LJH has a poor track record in internal selections. SYB was still recovering from her wrist injury last year after WTTC 2021 and because of that wasn't even on the KNT since she couldn't participate in the national team tryout. Check out the original lineups before the Asian Games were postponed. Yes, they chose to redo the selections.

What did Japan do? Stick with the original lineups. The women are more or less identical with the current standings, with Ito and Sato in 3rd and 5th, who have chosen to not participate. But the men? M. Yoshimura, Oikawa and Matsushita are ranked 8th, 9th and 14th, respectively, whereas Tanaka, Shinozuka and R. Yoshiyama are ranked 3rd, 4th and 5th. How rigid is that?

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1141827
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-be-revamped-for-paris-2024.24977/post-353501

 

[zeio]

Harimoto did ok in his match against Alamian. Like what he did at WTTC 2023, he tried to finish the point with FH, especially in the end game. But this time, blowing the lead after 7:3 in G5 requires an investigation. Injury is definitely a factor and he said after ATTC 2023 that it's his responsibility to prevent that, but injuring himself in warmup on the day of the MT is unusual and not the first time for Japan in this Olympic cycle. Hirano also played with her right upper arm in bandage against South Korea, but unlike Harimoto, Hayata was there to watch her back.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Japanese DNA has short and storky hands and feet. HT is exception coz he is 100% Chinese DNA.

Japanese player will have better chance if they play Koki Niwa style: Stand close to table, move little, block the heck of every ball back, quick counter for the fin: Bring back the glory days of Koki Niwa. Hell Yeah!

 

[blahness]

Japanese DNA has short and storky hands and feet. HT is exception coz he is 100% Chinese DNA.

Japanese player will have better chance if they play Koki Niwa style: Stand close to table, move little, block the heck of every ball back, quick counter for the fin: Bring back the glory days of Koki Niwa. Hell Yeah!

Koki Niwa would probably have lost too - he looks good in some highlight reels but in reality he loses a lot.

Also, Yoshimura is tall af wirh long arms long legs and still lost...

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Koki Niwa would probably have lost too - he looks good in some highlight reels but in reality he loses a lot.

Also, Yoshimura is tall af wirh long arms long legs and still lost...

Yoshimura has Filipino DNA

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What did Japan do? Stick with the original lineups. The women are more or less identical with the current standings, with Ito and Sato in 3rd and 5th, who have chosen to not participate. But the men? M. Yoshimura, Oikawa and Matsushita are ranked 8th, 9th and 14th, respectively, whereas Tanaka, Shinozuka and R. Yoshiyama are ranked 3rd, 4th and 5th. How rigid is that?

The extending of a tournament is unprecedented in many countries selection policy.
Selection is based on policies, and one can't just change the policy that easily.
Taiwan, and Japan, honored the selection policy, and nothing can really change it unless it becomes a boardroom vote.
Obviously, China having no ability to host the games in 2022 was the biggest issue here
Covid made a lot of unprecedented situations from happening.

But at the end of the day, rules are rules and maybe new rules will need to be formulated for the future, based on votes obviously.

However, schedules need to stay in place, otherwise, if schedules keep pushing out to the next years, then it will be unfair for those trying out and making the team, and then, not able to play because the "trials" was deemed "not honored".

Japan could easily sent they players to play more WTT between 2022 and 2023, but they spent so little times on the circuit that only they can answer why.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Chinese fans' commentary on Japan's loss to Iran

Oh, for anyone interested, I suggest you guys check out this thread on Zhihu. Some comments delve quite deep into the loopholes in their playstyle and tactics.

I agree with some of that commentary. Japan TT needs a shakeup, needs more experienced coaches with high level Chinese experience.

Especially Harimoto, losing to players outside of top 50 and top 100 to me shows the limitation of his style. I feel his style is ripe for upsets because it gives the opponent too many chances.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I agree with some of that c ommentary. Japan TT needs a shakeup, needs more experienced coaches with high level Chinese experience.

Especially Harimoto, losing to players outside of top 50 and top 100 to me shows the limitation of his style. I feel his style is ripe for upsets because it gives the opponent too many chances.

日本这个国家，在乒乓球的领域，没有一个单打世界冠军，没有一个世界冠军做教练

I counted more than 0 singles world champion
Hiroji Satoh
Ichiro Ogimura
Toshiaki Tanaka
Nobuhiko Hasegawa
Shigeo Itoh
Mitsuru Kono
Seiji Ono

In fact, it is 7 players having 9 singles world champion.
Some of the things are just plain Chinese mindset only.
Did Werner Schlager have a world champion coach?
How about Gaiten?

And how many former World Champions are living in USA. Have they made USA world champion?

Granted, I understand Chinese mindset, but then, if you use that methodology, then only China can be world champion and who ever becomes a coach that isn't world champion, can never groom a world champion.
Including the likes of non Singles World Champion Chinese coaches.