Advice please: 7-ply all-wood blade for my son

[damszelfly]

The best 7 ply blade I've ever played and will continue to defend it with my life is the original stiga clipper wood.

Fast, control, feeling, pairs up with all rubbers. Good weight, handle, quality is ok but it sealing doesn't hurt, and its sheer versatility is incredible. Soft, hard, Euro, Chinese, hybrids, short pips, whatever you put on it, it plays perfectly.

The avalox p700 is a higher quality version of it. But the clipper plays better, don't know why, clipper lighter too.

There's nothing like it.

Take a look at Yinhe PD 437 S or PD 537 S at some time, possibly you will be surprised how well those woods are playing.

 

[Lazer]

Donic Appelgren All+ World Champion 89

Our finest quality, produced by top craftsman in honour of the Swedish legends. Top workmanship, made in Germany. The new World Champion 89 blade series is exceptional. It celebrates the 25th anniversary of Sweden winning the World Championships Team title in Dortmund in 1989 (in a historic 5-0...

en.dandoy-sports.eu

All 3 (Appelgren all+, Waldner off and Persson off+) of these are on Black week sale on Dandoy right now.
They have an outer layer of spruce which makes them very nice for hard rubbers.
I would have bought one if I didn't already have that niche filled...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Lowday20298]

Take a look at Yinhe PD 437 S or PD 537 S at some time, possibly you will be surprised how well those woods are playing.

The purple dragon? One is made in China, and the other is handmade in Sweden. Plus the Clipper is only 50 euros, no point to getting a copy to save 10 euros. The cr would be even better.

 

[baynhanh145]

5 ply wood - best for beginner

 

[damszelfly]

The purple dragon? One is made in China, and the other is handmade in Sweden. Plus the Clipper is only 50 euros, no point to getting a copy to save 10 euros. The cr would be even better.

Then just ignore what I have said, and miss out on that. I have found it for significantly better prices, but since you are completely uninterested, I also don't expect you to bother. Do you really believe, that "handmade in Sweden" does make a difference, when it is about one of their most mass-produced blades?

 

[turbozed]

The purple dragon? One is made in China, and the other is handmade in Sweden. Plus the Clipper is only 50 euros, no point to getting a copy to save 10 euros. The cr would be even better.

So what? I've owned a couple of Nittakus (Acoustic and Ludeack) and a made-in-Sweden Yasaka.

I currently play with a $20 Yinhe U-2.

We're talking literal plywood here. There's no technological advantage that any country will have to make the blades play better. The only difference is perhaps finishing, but that only matters when you first get the blade and are closely oggling it for the details.

 

[Lowday20298]

Then just ignore what I have said, and miss out on that. I have found it for significantly better prices, but since you are completely uninterested, I also don't expect you to bother. Do you really believe, that "handmade in Sweden" does make a difference, when it is about one of their most mass-produced blades?

Just saying, the Clipper is the most well known blade and has been made and sold for over 40 years. I understood why it was so good when I got one and played it. Same with the viscaria. I've played with a million viscaria clones, nothing plays like the real thing. It's not just the finish, it's the quality and consistency of the materials that you pay for. Wood tends to be extremely inconsistent, that's why you can buy the same 2 blades and have them play completely differently. You don't get that with big companies like stiga, butterfly and yasaka.

 

[Lowday20298]

So what? I've owned a couple of Nittakus (Acoustic and Ludeack) and a made-in-Sweden Yasaka.

I currently play with a $20 Yinhe U-2.

We're talking literal plywood here. There's no technological advantage that any country will have to make the blades play better. The only difference is perhaps finishing, but that only matters when you first get the blade and are closely oggling it for the details.

As I said at the other response, wood is wood, and wood is alive. Different plies have different consistency, hardness, stiffness, etc. You pay for consistency and quality of materials. Sure, you can buy a 20€ blade from China, but can you guarantee that it's gonna be the same with another of the same model? Butterfly, Stiga and all these other high end companies guarantee you that because that's the foundation that they're built on. Same with rubbers, many are like tenergy or hurricane, but there's nothing that can trully replace them.

Hope that's enough to see my point of view. It's not worth the risk.

 

[turbozed]

As I said at the other response, wood is wood, and wood is alive. Different plies have different consistency, hardness, stiffness, etc. You pay for consistency and quality of materials. Sure, you can buy a 20€ blade from China, but can you guarantee that it's gonna be the same with another of the same model? Butterfly, Stiga and all these other high end companies guarantee you that because that's the foundation that they're built on. Same with rubbers, many are like tenergy or hurricane, but there's nothing that can trully replace them.

Hope that's enough to see my point of view. It's not worth the risk.

I understand your point of view, but I think your assumption that a company like Stiga has higher consistency and quality of materials is erroneous. For a long period of time Stiga was reknown for having awful quality control. It perhaps had the worst reputation for splintering and delamination.

Wood consistency is a problem even among higher end blade manufacturers. I ended up with a 78g Nittaku Acoustic. This is 10 grams from its stated weight. On the other hand, due to large scale production, I have been able to request two identical weights for the Sanwei Fextra. When measuring the frequency, both came in at exactly 1313 hz.

The reality is that no blade manufacturer, no matter how expensive and well-regarded they are, is going to eliminate wood inconsistency as an issue. As a buyer, we can better mitigate the problems by choosing the weight of the blade and buying cheaper brands, so it's less of a loss in case we do get a dud. My Yasaka Sweden Extra, for example, was my least favorite blade and I suspect I got a particularly poor quality one because most people think it's a great blade.

From my limited experience, the idea of 'paying for consistency and quality of materials' is mostly an illusion created by marketing for ordinary wood blades (I'm not talking about hinoki, exotic woods, and carbon fibers). Unless proven otherwise, there's no reason to think that Stiga or Yasaka are using woods or processes of higher quality than Sanwei or Yinhe.

 

[damszelfly]

I currently play with a $20 Yinhe U-2.

We're talking literal plywood here. There's no technological advantage that any country will have to make the blades play better. The only difference is perhaps finishing, but that only matters when you first get the blade and are closely oggling it for the details.

Yinhe blades fair surprisingly well in consistency. I own several pieces of Yinhe U-2, and they play very closely to each other, most of them are within 1290Hz and 1330Hz. Also, they are not dead regarding feeling, there is a healthy amount of vibration in them, which helps with impact feedback. The top plies are nicely sanded, and there are no splintering issues - I have seen much worse blades in this regard.

I understand your point of view, but I think your assumption that a company like Stiga has higher consistency and quality of materials is erroneous. For a long period of time Stiga was reknown for having awful quality control. It perhaps had the worst reputation for splintering and delamination.

I have seen several complaints about many Stiga blades having poor workmanship - this is not something I want to pay an extra for, if I can get a cheaper blade with more than two times narrower manufacturing fault tolerance.

 

[Lowday20298]

I understand your point of view, but I think your assumption that a company like Stiga has higher consistency and quality of materials is erroneous. For a long period of time Stiga was reknown for having awful quality control. It perhaps had the worst reputation for splintering and delamination.

Wood consistency is a problem even among higher end blade manufacturers. I ended up with a 78g Nittaku Acoustic. This is 10 grams from its stated weight. On the other hand, due to large scale production, I have been able to request two identical weights for the Sanwei Fextra. When measuring the frequency, both came in at exactly 1313 hz.

The reality is that no blade manufacturer, no matter how expensive and well-regarded they are, is going to eliminate wood inconsistency as an issue. As a buyer, we can better mitigate the problems by choosing the weight of the blade and buying cheaper brands, so it's less of a loss in case we do get a dud. My Yasaka Sweden Extra, for example, was my least favorite blade and I suspect I got a particularly poor quality one because most people think it's a great blade.

From my limited experience, the idea of 'paying for consistency and quality of materials' is mostly an illusion created by marketing for ordinary wood blades (I'm not talking about hinoki, exotic woods, and carbon fibers). Unless proven otherwise, there's no reason to think that Stiga or Yasaka are using woods or processes of higher quality than Sanwei or Yinhe.

I understand, I did have a problem with my old Clipper, it was 85 grams, 10-15 lower than normal.

 

[Dominikk85]

So what? I've owned a couple of Nittakus (Acoustic and Ludeack) and a made-in-Sweden Yasaka.

I currently play with a $20 Yinhe U-2.

We're talking literal plywood here. There's no technological advantage that any country will have to make the blades play better. The only difference is perhaps finishing, but that only matters when you first get the blade and are closely oggling it for the details.

I think yinhe blades are nice but compared to Brands like stiga, yasaka etc the price advantage is not big when talking about all wood blades, it is basically 20-30 for yinhe and 40-60 for the all wood Brand blades. By percentage that is a big difference but considering you don't need a new blade often the overall money saved isn't huge.

On the other hand with carbon blades the difference can be very significant, there it is more like 50 bucks for yinhe or 150+ (sometimes 200+) for the top brand blades.

 

[turbozed]

I think yinhe blades are nice but compared to Brands like stiga, yasaka etc the price advantage is not big when talking about all wood blades, it is basically 20-30 for yinhe and 40-60 for the all wood Brand blades. By percentage that is a big difference but considering you don't need a new blade often the overall money saved isn't huge.

On the other hand with carbon blades the difference can be very significant, there it is more like 50 bucks for yinhe or 150+ (sometimes 200+) for the top brand blades.

I think the difference is more stark when you factor in the price in China and pick out some comparable blades.

A Fextra is about $18 right now on Aliexpress but is even cheaper than that domestically. It's comparable (and preferable to some) to a Clipper Wood that's $65. You can get 5 Fextras for the price of 1 Clipper.

Paying $40 or $50 more for a blade you're going to use for potentially years doesn't seem like a big deal for some, but it makes a huge deal for others in some countries.

That said, you're right that it's definitely a wider gap with clones of Butterfly blades where a good clone of a $300 Butterfly blade can be had for $20.

 

[Manto76]

Something I thought might be worth mentioning for the benefit of others who are considering moving from 5-ply all-wood to 7-ply all-wood: The blade 'softens' a little after a couple of months of play.

I remember the first time I tried the Korbel SK7 it felt very hard and unyielding to me but, after my son had used it for a couple of months, I tried it again and the feel had changed. It was softer, had more 'feel', and was (in my opinion) much nicer to play with.

I guess I could summarise by saying that in the beginning it felt like a blocking and hitting blade but, after a little while, it felt more like a powerful looping blade.

If you're testing a possible transition to 7-ply all-wood, don't give up too soon.

 

[CEYMS]

Hi All,

I'm planning to get a 7-ply all-wood blade as a gift for my son and would be grateful for some advice please.

He currently plays with a Xiom Offensive S and is looking for a step up from that in power, but he doesn't like the feel of blades with any synthetic fibres (eg. carbon, ALC, etc.). So, a 7-ply all-wood it needs to be.

I've read lots of reviews and have shortlisted these five:

1. Butterfly Korbel SK7
2. Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro (Blue)
3. Tibhar Dynamic J7
4. Yasaka Falck W7
5. Joola Xylo 7

Questions:

1. Based on the reviews I've read, it sounds to me like (1) and (2) above are pretty much the same blade under different brand names and, likewise, that (3) and (4) above are also very similar. Is this accurate?
2. The Xylo 7 is the one that might be different to the other four in that, based on reviews, it seems more powerful. Is this true? I've ruled out the Samsonov Force Pro Black Edition because I think it'll be too powerful, so if the Xylo 7 is as fast as the SFPBE then that would also rule it out.

More generally, if anybody has played with more than one of these it would be great to hear how they compare. Also, it would be really helpful if anyone can comment on handle-sizes (in 'straight' or 'anatomical' shape) as my son has big hands. I've heard the Samsonov Force Pro Blue has a small/thin handle - if that's true then that rules it out.

Thanks in advance!

I doubt the handle will be big enough on the Korbel. I played with the 5-ply anatomic and that was a good fit for me and my hands are relatively small.