Should I "upgrade" my all-wood 5-ply Kiso Hinoki?

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Can anybody compare the 7PC to the 5p-2a? Or with other looping-focused blades (ie, Viscaria, Korbel, w968)? I found the 5p-2a to feel pretty good but with a slightly vague hand feel (could just be the hinoki softness), but wished for a bit of speed. Probably due to me using H3 - wondering if the 7PC would help with that.
Speedwise the 5P is probably a tad slower than the 7PC, especially on harder shots. The 5P has a stronger hinoki kick and thus feels less stable than the 7PC, which has more control. I played the 5P for a few years. The 7PC is better for blocking, smashing, counter spins and for backhand punches, especially with the plastic ball.

It’s possible to play H3 on the 7PC, I have done so in the past. But my final conclusion was that Chinese rubbers (because they remain to be slowish even when you boost them) work better on thinner ALC or ZLC blades which have a bit more flex. The 7PC is thick and stiff and needs a bit more support from the rubbers. So IMO semi bouncy tensors or modern hybrid rubbers (K3, Rakza Z, Xiom Tau II etc.) are a better match.
 
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Speedwise the 5P is probably a tad slower than the 7PC, especially on harder shots. The 5P has a stronger hinoki kick and thus feels less stable than the 7PC, which has more control. I played the 5P for a few years. The 7PC is better for blocking, smashing, counter spins and for backhand punches, especially with the plastic ball.

It’s possible to play H3 on the 7PC, I have done so in the past. But my final conclusion was that Chinese rubbers (because they remain to be slowish even when you boost them) work better on thinner ALC or ZLC blades which have a bit more flex. The 7PC is thick and stiff and needs a bit more support from the rubbers. So IMO semi bouncy tensors or modern hybrid rubbers (K3, Rakza Z, Xiom Tau II etc.) are a better match.

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I did a back-to-back test of my 5p-2a against a W968 and it was just...too slow with H3. Trying to hit past a passive blocker (of a similar/lower level than I am) required me to overhit badly. Even with V20 DE it was far less dangerous than the W968 with effectively unboosted H3 (1 layer...6+ months ago?).

It's sad because I really loved the feel/control/throw on the 5p-2a. The W968 feels great but you really need to commit to every shot. Might need to pick up the 7PC to see if it has just a bit more speed to even it out...
 
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Cool thread. May I throw another question in the mix? Do any of the Hinoki guys in here have experience with this? Flirting with the idea of Hinoki and the fat handle is appealing. I'll be in Japan soon, so it wont be too expensive. 3 ply blade.
 

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Cool thread. May I throw another question in the mix? Do any of the Hinoki guys in here have experience with this? Flirting with the idea of Hinoki and the fat handle is appealing. I'll be in Japan soon, so it wont be too expensive. 3 ply blade.
Never tried it, but it should be fast and bouncy in short game, so you'll need soft hands and good feel to control it. Just my guess
No need to get another hinoki blade. They all feel about the same and are subpar compared to a thick 1 ply.
It's all very personal. My experience shows otherwise, they all feel very different depending on the thickness and the wood under the top ply. And I prefer hinoki-carbon, tried that legendary Darker 1-ply and it felt funny, with a very small sweet spot which was rather low on the blade, near the handle. It might be just a bad one, but a very strange feeling. The bounce was very irregular depending on the contact point.
 
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Never tried it, but it should be fast and bouncy in short game, so you'll need soft hands and good feel to control it. Just my guess

It's all very personal. My experience shows otherwise, they all feel very different depending on the thickness and the wood under the top ply. And I prefer hinoki-carbon, tried that legendary Darker 1-ply and it felt funny, with a very small sweet spot which was rather low on the blade, near the handle. It might be just a bad one, but a very strange feeling. The bounce was very irregular depending on the contact point
Never tried it, but it should be fast and bouncy in short game, so you'll need soft hands and good feel to control it. Just my guess

It's all very personal. My experience shows otherwise, they all feel very different depending on the thickness and the wood under the top ply. And I prefer hinoki-carbon, tried that legendary Darker 1-ply and it felt funny, with a very small sweet spot which was rather low on the blade, near the handle. It might be just a bad one, but a very strange feeling. The bounce was very irregular depending on the contact point.
Yea, that seems possible. Do you think being 3 ply will be the reason, that and its thickness? Its 7.2 mm
 
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It may well be, I only played my friend's Korbel with much faster rubbers.
I do like Rakza Z on 7PC. I first tried RZ on my Ludeack and it was a poor match, Ludeack throw is high and the arc was ridiculously high, and it was slow. With 7PC the arc is lower, and with a hard topspin it just flattens. So I get surprisingly flat spinny loops if I can say so, with a forward kick, same with blocking hard topspins. Quite nice.
And now when I think about it, RZ feels indeed faster on my 7PC than on a Ludeack, so yes, 7PC must be faster than a Korbel.
I'm yet to try RZ on my Acoustic, I guess it will be a nice spinny combo, but I just don't want to be torn between two blades :D .
Hi S-Pin, have you played a bit more with 7PC? Any new insights as to how it performs?
 
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Hi S-Pin, have you played a bit more with 7PC? Any new insights as to how it performs?
Hi, yes, I've been playing with my 3 new blades lately - 7P-2A.C, Joola Rossi Emotion and Nittaku S-CZ.
All have a nice, controlled, soft touch, all have a carbon layer which kicks in when hit hard, all about 82g and all have Rakza Z on both sides.
All three in my view are really good blades, all made for the same level/type of player, yet all three feel very different.
I plan to interchange between them in the next month or so, hope to gather my thoughts and write a comparative review if it is of any interest.

So far I can say that you were spot on about a 7P - it is indeed addictive ;)
 
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Hi, yes, I've been playing with my 3 new blades lately - 7P-2A.C, Joola Rossi Emotion and Nittaku S-CZ.
All have a nice, controlled, soft touch, all have a carbon layer which kicks in when hit hard, all about 82g and all have Rakza Z on both sides.
All three in my view are really good blades, all made for the same level/type of player, yet all three feel very different.
I plan to interchange between them in the next month or so, hope to gather my thoughts and write a comparative review if it is of any interest.

So far I can say that you were spot on about a 7P - it is indeed addictive ;)
Would be great if you wrote such a review! Please do!
 
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i can say the Bluestar A1 is a really good FH Rubber on The BTY Kiso Hinoki V it tames the trampoline effect from the Hinoki,is semi Tacky almost hybrid Like and has a good short short.
But have to train More to get better Topsin arc and spin,so it is better to get a bit more sidespin not straight topspin with fast upward motion,at least that was more dangerous for my opponents.
Of course point of impact is important in every TS play,but if i played high arc ,they were to easy to counter or even flat hit,punchblock back.
 
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Cool thread. May I throw another question in the mix? Do any of the Hinoki guys in here have experience with this? Flirting with the idea of Hinoki and the fat handle is appealing. I'll be in Japan soon, so it wont be too expensive. 3 ply blade.
Hi @rbtitco did you get the Yasaka Masamune? I was quite interested in owning a three-ply hinoki blade (especially one where the plies are equal thickness). The main thing holding me back was the unusual head size (I try to have all my blades 157x150).
 
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Hi, yes, I've been playing with my 3 new blades lately - 7P-2A.C, Joola Rossi Emotion and Nittaku S-CZ.
All have a nice, controlled, soft touch, all have a carbon layer which kicks in when hit hard, all about 82g and all have Rakza Z on both sides.
All three in my view are really good blades, all made for the same level/type of player, yet all three feel very different.
I plan to interchange between them in the next month or so, hope to gather my thoughts and write a comparative review if it is of any interest.

So far I can say that you were spot on about a 7P - it is indeed addictive ;)
Hi @S-Pin how's your testing of those three blades going?
I note that @MK73 and @Haraold are also interested :)
 
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Hi @rbtitco did you get the Yasaka Masamune? I was quite interested in owning a three-ply hinoki blade (especially one where the plies are equal thickness). The main thing holding me back was the unusual head size (I try to have all my blades 157x150).
yea, i like it. im coming from inner carbon limba outer, so it feels fast. the throw is low, but it works fine (even w/ low throw fh rubber.) i see what people mean now when they say hinoki is soft, but hard. it feels hard and fast on smashes (way better than my other blade) but soft and grippy on serves and thin cuts. its fun, you can play all sorts of styles with it. ive been playing around chopping a lot, being a little bit bigger face makes it easier. I put my old rubber on it chinese fh/09c bh, because i really wanted to feel the blade difference of hinoki and not have the rubbers interfere w/ that. now, im consider pips on the bh, im gonna go to world rubber market later this week and see what excites me... Also, almost forgot to mention, it has a nice fat handle that feels great.
 
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Yes - I have been playing with this blade (D09c / D64) for a while now - it’s a great blade. Good feel and soft touch with the right speed for me right now (off) Good handle and balance too. I also have the Horezci too with an inner carbon layer and it’s also very good.
Hi @Wrighty67 (and other owners of Vodak blades)

I'm still considering purchasing this blade (Hinoki Jiri Vrablik Off) for myself. One complication to that decision is that Vodak also produce 'Hinoki Magus Off' that appears to have similar characteristics:

I don't suppose you have tested the magus blade or can shed any light on what influenced your decision?

I already have a strong looping and driving game but am seeking a blade that has that absorbent feeling and controlled release that enables one to have a strong and reliable blocking game. The best blade I have tried in this regard was a friend's 3-ply Kiso Hinoki blade (of unknown origin, hence why I am also interested in the Yasaka Masamune described above.

Cheers, LLS
 
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Hi @Wrighty67 (and other owners of Vodak blades)

I'm still considering purchasing this blade (Hinoki Jiri Vrablik Off) for myself. One complication to that decision is that Vodak also produce 'Hinoki Magus Off' that appears to have similar characteristics:

I don't suppose you have tested the magus blade or can shed any light on what influenced your decision?

I already have a strong looping and driving game but am seeking a blade that has that absorbent feeling and controlled release that enables one to have a strong and reliable blocking game. The best blade I have tried in this regard was a friend's 3-ply Kiso Hinoki blade (of unknown origin, hence why I am also interested in the Yasaka Masamune described above.

Cheers, LLS
UnfortunatEly I have not tried the Magus - I stumbled on to the Vráblík as I picked it up used. It looks like the Vráblík is a little heavier and faster, but not by much. All I can say is that it seems to meet your requirements pretty well.
 
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So I tried the 7P-2A with Tenergy 05fx 2.1mm on forehand and 1.9mm on backhand. My Darker weights 80g, craftsmanship is top notch!

The feeling is insane, very clear feedback, easy to create spin. The best way to play this combination is with topspin. I think I need 3-4 more sessions to adapt, but after the first 2 sessions I can already say that it’s way better than the S-CZ in terms of predictability and consistency.
So far I really like it!
 
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