Any attempt to play in an competitive environment ruins this sport for me (rant)

[doppelmoral]

This is (an unfortunate) part of life everywhere in almost any endeavor. You often don't get to provrr yourself in your preferred manner, you need to climb the ladder multiple times in inconvenient ways to get to the place where you want to be, not the place they give to people who have not proven much. Luckily it is sport which is less subjective than some other fields, but you still need the track record to get the strongest claims and to avoid arguments of unfairness. Otherwise you need to know the eight people which isn't fair, but sometimes knowing the right people is part of egst happens after you clime the ladder the fair way.

I think a big part that bothered me about the process is, that I clearly said from the beginning that I am fine doing only practise without ever playing in a team.
But because I practise 4-5 times a week, always present and beating most ppl, I got pressured into playing for a team. And when I agreed, they still wanted me to start from the very bottom.

They even acknowlege that the bottom team doesnt reflect my skill, its just so that the bottom team can have a benefit of it. I think this is the part that bothers me so much about it, that I rather stay out of competition and keep enjoying my practise.

 

[Yuomay]

If i where in your situation and wanted to play competitively against players of other clubs. I would :
1. go play individual competitions and tournaments if they exist where you play.
2. Put yourself outside the club politics and tell them if they need they can call on you if needed as a reserve player if someone is absent for example.

 

[d3nium]

This is (an unfortunate) part of life everywhere in almost any endeavor. You often don't get to provrr yourself in your preferred manner, you need to climb the ladder multiple times in inconvenient ways to get to the place where you want to be, not the place they give to people who have not proven much. Luckily it is sport which is less subjective than some other fields, but you still need the track record to get the strongest claims and to avoid arguments of unfairness. Otherwise you need to know the eight people which isn't fair, but sometimes knowing the right people is part of egst happens after you clime the ladder the fair way.

I didn't mind so much, it gave me a chance to learn the game again and explore the new equipment, ball etc. I also had to learn to serve again because I was trained to serve under my arm as a kid.

I started off in the F team and I felt a real sense of achievement when I eventually got promoted to the A team.

Very good point from you about getting in with the right people at the club. I made sure to make friends with as many people as I could. If someone has a bad reputation, then nobody will want to play on a team with them.

 

[vossi39]

I can only second the suggestion to play some tournaments as they will give you a feedback on your real life competitive level. It is a huge difference to beat the players in your own club and winning in a competitive environment. With playing tournaments, you also will receive your ranking points. When playing a couple of those, you will see, where you fit in your club and the argumentation becomes fact based and less emotional.

Playing just for fun is also OK, but of course there is always a tendency to leverage skill available for the teams. Being nominated in a lower team, usually gives you a chance to play in all teams above you, if one of the regular players gets sick, injured or alike. Being nominated in the first team, will not have that opportunity.
Just as an additional train of thought.

 

[SleepyMaster]

It’s okay to start at “lower” league, because sometimes if you don’t have enough competitive experience you can be wrong about your own level of play.

So it’s better to start slowly but surely, than throwing yourself under players that are levels above you - you just get almost nothing from those demoralizing matches and league plays.

After getting some experience, you can move further to the league that your really belong with better understanding of your own level of play, plus you might get rated from those plays

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

We have internal rankings where I am about 10-15th rank among 60, and some ppl want to put me into the last team last spot. Why do internal rankings exist then.

sounds like your club is a mess

 

[NextLevel]

I think a big part that bothered me about the process is, that I clearly said from the beginning that I am fine doing only practise without ever playing in a team.
But because I practise 4-5 times a week, always present and beating most ppl, I got pressured into playing for a team. And when I agreed, they still wanted me to start from the very bottom.

They even acknowlege that the bottom team doesnt reflect my skill, its just so that the bottom team can have a benefit of it. I think this is the part that bothers me so much about it, that I rather stay out of competition and keep enjoying my practise.

I hear you. The problem is that unfortunately, other people need you to achieve things that you may not care about. Life is always about hierarchy ans exchange like that, you need to deal with other people as best you can. You could always buy a table and play at home if you just want to train. But if you are getting something out of the club system, you have to decide what you are giving back to it. Are you paying them fees to learn? If you paid them, would they let you out of the matches?

 

[Zeen]

you could play lower league and then if it is too easy, you can switch to a higher team during half-season break.

 

[NextLevel]

It’s okay to start at “lower” league, because sometimes if you don’t have enough competitive experience you can be wrong about your own level of play.

So it’s better to start slowly but surely, than throwing yourself under players that are levels above you - you just get almost nothing from those demoralizing matches and league plays.

After getting some experience, you can move further to the league that your really belong with better understanding of your own level of play, plus you might get rated from those plays

This point is very important. Competitive pressure and adapting to other environments males many good players play much worse. Coming up through the playing levels competitively makes me very resilient in match play and I don't just chuck matches to lower rated players who are not really at the level to beat me, something which happens often to players who didn't deal with pips or various unorthodox styles in the competitive system. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Starting at a level you are too good for and just demonstrating you are too good for it. A lot of it comes down to mindset.

 

[NextLevel]

sounds like your club is a mess

Maybe but you are only hearing one side of the story, you aren't hearing what the club incentives are and what his alternatives and obligations are.

 

[SleepyMaster]

This point is very important. Competitive pressure and adapting to other environments males many good players play much worse. Coming up through the playing levels competitively makes me very resilient in match play and I don't just chuck matches to lower rated players who are not really at the level to beat me, something which happens often to players who didn't deal with pips or various unorthodox styles in the competitive system. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Starting at a level you are too good for and just demonstrating you are too good for it. A lot of it comes down to mindset.

Yes, there is a lot of guys that are having good looking strokes and kinda solid fundamentals aaaaand suddenly they are doing not so good in competitions. You just need grind trough that. Its really not for everyone. You need to have special mindset for that - thats for sure.
But if you want to compete and you just starting tt journey as op - nothing wrong with starting at level that you seeing as "lower" because you will be need to deal with a lot of "not a tt textbook" things even on that levels that is just make your better player overall.

 

[Aizen]

I’ve been also slightly similar situation,

I had no idea about my level and league levels. Then one senior played with me 10-15 mins then wanted into his team, he was aiming one higher league, lucky we ended up below due to rules etc.
But still my percentage is not good, I wish I had started one more below. I am kinda stuck now.

If you are not sure, one below is better,
When you manage to get above %80-85 win rate, you could jump up in a season, and it would be a good confidence boost.

I think ideal place is where a player do %70-80 win rate, it could be either upper league or lower.

a lot of good players in my club starting at lower leagues (2-3 below) then they are jumping one by one while butchering all the pools.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Maybe but you are only hearing one side of the story, you aren't hearing what the club incentives are and what his alternatives and obligations are.

hence I start my sentence with "sound".

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I’ve been also slightly similar situation,

I had no idea about my level and league levels. Then one senior played with me 10-15 mins then wanted into his team, he was aiming one higher league, lucky we ended up below due to rules etc.
But still my percentage is not good, I wish I had started one more below. I am kinda stuck now.

If you are not sure, one below is better,
When you manage to get above %80-85 win rate, you could jump up in a season, and it would be a good confidence boost.

I think ideal place is where a player do %70-80 win rate, it could be either upper league or lower.

a lot of good players in my club starting at lower leagues (2-3 below) then they are jumping one by one while butchering all the pools.

did you take part in an internal ranking trials?
i think this made a huge different to the club doing trials, the not making use of the results thereof.

imagine national teams chosen not based on trials. things would be a mess

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think a big part that bothered me about the process is, that I clearly said from the beginning that I am fine doing only practise without ever playing in a team.
But because I practise 4-5 times a week, always present and beating most ppl, I got pressured into playing for a team. And when I agreed, they still wanted me to start from the very bottom.

They even acknowlege that the bottom team doesnt reflect my skill, its just so that the bottom team can have a benefit of it. I think this is the part that bothers me so much about it, that I rather stay out of competition and keep enjoying my practise.

I have to be honest. I like to train. I don't like competitive aspect of TT. I personally don't care if I improve. The training aspect of TT makes me happy. Match play, not so much.

I think a lot of people on this thread seem to be missing some of the point of what you are saying.

You are playing in a club. You like to train. You don't care if you play in league or not. You understand that if you do play in league against players that challenge you, you might improve more. But you would still be fine and happy just going and training. YOU ARE NOT ASKING TO BE IN THE LEAGUE AND ON A TEAM. These people at the club are not wanting you to just come to the club and train without taking part in the league (this is probably in part because you are at a higher level than at least half the players at the club and probably more like 2/3 or 3/4 of the players at the club). And you don't like the drama THEY are creating around them wanting you in a league THAT YOU ARE indifferent to participating in. AND TO TOP IT OFF, WHILE THEY WANT YOU IN THEIR LEAGUE, THEY WANT YOU TO EITHER PLAY WHERE YOU WILL NOT BE CHALLENGED BECAUSE YOU ARE WAY BETTER THAN THE PLAYERS IN THE LOWEST team category, OR OTHERWISE, TO PLAY IN THE DIVISION WHERE THE OPPONENTS WILL BE SO GOOD THAT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPETE.

SO, EITHER OPTION THEY WANT FOR YOU WOULD BE A WASTE OF TIME FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED. EVEN THOUGH THE STRONGEST PULL IS TO THE HIGHEST AND LOWEST TEAMS, ALL THE OTHER TEAMS WOULD KIND OF LIKE TO HAVE YOU ON THEIR TEAM TOO EVEN THOUGH NONE OF THEM HAVE SPACE AND THERE IS ONLY SPACE AT THE HARDEST AND EASIEST LEVELS.

Do I have this right?

If this is the case, what I would do, ME PERSONALLY, is tell them you don't want to be in the league and that if they continue to bother you about it you will simply withdraw your membership, stop paying the monthly fee and find another club.

If after that, they still try and put you in their league, let them know you do not want to be in the league, but if they are insisting, THEN THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL PARTICIPATE IS if they put you on the team that best represents your play level.

And if they continue to bother you after you have made your position clear, then I would change clubs.

 

[Aizen]

did you take part in an internal ranking trials?
i think this made a huge different to the club doing trials, the not making use of the results thereof.

imagine national teams chosen not based on trials. things would be a mess

No, there is no trials. Because mostly new players don’t have ranking so they start from scratch or players returning from break, so they start lower than they were before.
I’ve come from another country so, people like me generally just play with others to determine. Mine was bit awkward.

 

[PaddyPolar]

I don't want to force you to make any decisions, but the club treating you like that is pretty ridiculous. Putting the success of certain teams above your happiness while playing is definately a red flag.

Maybe joining another team in the area may help, as they can judge purely on you gameplay which division you should be in, and may noy be so ignorant towards a new member. However I understand that this could not be an option for you.

All i'm saying is that you are paying a club(I assume) to play for them for your own entertainment and happiness, and to take those two aspects out by placing you in a division you are uncomfortable in is low tier customer service.

 

[NextLevel]

I have to be honest. I like to train. I don't like competitive aspect of TT. I personally don't care if I improve. The training aspect of TT makes me happy. Match play, not so much.

I think a lot of people on this thread seem to be missing some of the point of what you are saying.

You are playing in a club. You like to train. You don't care if you play in league or not. You understand that if you do play in league against players that challenge you, you might improve more. But you would still be fine and happy just going and training. YOU ARE NOT ASKING TO BE IN THE LEAGUE AND ON A TEAM. These people at the club are not wanting you to just come to the club and train without taking part in the league (this is probably in part because you are at a higher level than at least half the players at the club and probably more like 2/3 or 3/4 of the players at the club). And you don't like the drama THEY are creating around them wanting you in a league THAT YOU ARE indifferent to participating in. AND TO TOP IT OFF, WHILE THEY WANT YOU IN THEIR LEAGUE, THEY WANT YOU TO EITHER PLAY WHERE YOU WILL NOT BE CHALLENGED BECAUSE YOU ARE WAY BETTER THAN THE PLAYERS IN THE LOWEST team category, OR OTHERWISE, TO PLAY IN THE DIVISION WHERE THE OPPONENTS WILL BE SO GOOD THAT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPETE.

SO, EITHER OPTION THEY WANT FOR YOU WOULD BE A WASTE OF TIME FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED. EVEN THOUGH THE STRONGEST PULL IS TO THE HIGHEST AND LOWEST TEAMS, ALL THE OTHER TEAMS WOULD KIND OF LIKE TO HAVE YOU ON THEIR TEAM TOO EVEN THOUGH NONE OF THEM HAVE SPACE AND THERE IS ONLY SPACE AT THE HARDEST AND EASIEST LEVELS.

Do I have this right?

If this is the case, what I would do, ME PERSONALLY, is tell them you don't want to be in the league and that if they continue to bother you about it you will simply withdraw your membership, stop paying the monthly fee and find another club.

If after that, they still try and put you in their league, let them know you do not want to be in the league, but if they are insisting, THEN THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL PARTICIPATE IS if they put you on the team that best represents your play level.

And if they continue to bother you after you have made your position clear, then I would change clubs.

I prefer training to competing by a mile. But no one wants to train and most clubs I'm my current area are not built to facilitate training because they are part time. So I have to compromise and make deals and train practice partners in the hope that at some point someone sees the light. My main point is that if he doesn't want to play for the club, he has to explain what about his situation the club is using to control him. Because many situations in table tennis come with obligations, some obvious, some far less transparent. In life, few people give you opportunities for free. People are always working with you as part of an agreement for something.

 

[NetProphet]

I think a big part that bothered me about the process is, that I clearly said from the beginning that I am fine doing only practise without ever playing in a team.
But because I practise 4-5 times a week, always present and beating most ppl, I got pressured into playing for a team. And when I agreed, they still wanted me to start from the very bottom.

They even acknowlege that the bottom team doesnt reflect my skill, its just so that the bottom team can have a benefit of it. I think this is the part that bothers me so much about it, that I rather stay out of competition and keep enjoying my practise.

And when you write it this way it comes across that you won't help a team at your club because you are too good for them, not a good look.
And they've also told you that the middle team is full.
So it's either above or below you have to go.
Just do it man, make your choice and do it.
You might find that matchpl is tougher than you think and you might actually enjoy helping the team out, if you can put the team first

 

[doppelmoral]

I have to be honest. I like to train. I don't like competitive aspect of TT. I personally don't care if I improve. The training aspect of TT makes me happy. Match play, not so much.

I think a lot of people on this thread seem to be missing some of the point of what you are saying.

You are playing in a club. You like to train. You don't care if you play in league or not. You understand that if you do play in league against players that challenge you, you might improve more. But you would still be fine and happy just going and training. YOU ARE NOT ASKING TO BE IN THE LEAGUE AND ON A TEAM. These people at the club are not wanting you to just come to the club and train without taking part in the league (this is probably in part because you are at a higher level than at least half the players at the club and probably more like 2/3 or 3/4 of the players at the club). And you don't like the drama THEY are creating around them wanting you in a league THAT YOU ARE indifferent to participating in. AND TO TOP IT OFF, WHILE THEY WANT YOU IN THEIR LEAGUE, THEY WANT YOU TO EITHER PLAY WHERE YOU WILL NOT BE CHALLENGED BECAUSE YOU ARE WAY BETTER THAN THE PLAYERS IN THE LOWEST team category, OR OTHERWISE, TO PLAY IN THE DIVISION WHERE THE OPPONENTS WILL BE SO GOOD THAT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO COMPETE.

SO, EITHER OPTION THEY WANT FOR YOU WOULD BE A WASTE OF TIME FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED. EVEN THOUGH THE STRONGEST PULL IS TO THE HIGHEST AND LOWEST TEAMS, ALL THE OTHER TEAMS WOULD KIND OF LIKE TO HAVE YOU ON THEIR TEAM TOO EVEN THOUGH NONE OF THEM HAVE SPACE AND THERE IS ONLY SPACE AT THE HARDEST AND EASIEST LEVELS.

Do I have this right?

If this is the case, what I would do, ME PERSONALLY, is tell them you don't want to be in the league and that if they continue to bother you about it you will simply withdraw your membership, stop paying the monthly fee and find another club.

If after that, they still try and put you in their league, let them know you do not want to be in the league, but if they are insisting, THEN THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL PARTICIPATE IS if they put you on the team that best represents your play level.

And if they continue to bother you after you have made your position clear, then I would change clubs.

Carl, nothing else to add other than you have perfectly summed it up and reflected my thoughts. It is exactly how you wrote it.

I have never asked for playing in the league. I have no ego, I am totally indifferent about participating. I only do it because about 30 people have asked me to. And now, I cant escape the drama.

And, I will never understand this aspect of amateur sport. To me, it is about fun of improving, socializing with my buddies, workout to keep my body moving, stay healthy. And ppl use this place of amateur sport to act like this is all extremely serious business, no fun allowed.