Any attempt to play in an competitive environment ruins this sport for me (rant)

[UpSideDownCarl]

I prefer training to competing by a mile. But no one wants to train and most clubs I'm my current area are not built to facilitate training because they are part time. So I have to compromise and make deals and train practice partners in the hope that at some point someone sees the light. My main point is that if he doesn't want to play for the club, he has to explain what about his situation the club is using to control him. Because many situations in table tennis come with obligations, some obvious, some far less transparent. In life, few people give you opportunities for free. People are always working with you as part of an agreement for something.

Carl, nothing else to add other than you have perfectly summed it up and reflected my thoughts. It is exactly how you wrote it.

I have never asked for playing in the league. I have no ego, I am totally indifferent about participating. I only do it because about 30 people have asked me to. And now, I cant escape the drama.

And, I will never understand this aspect of amateur sport. To me, it is about fun of improving, socializing with my buddies, workout to keep my body moving, stay healthy. And ppl use this place of amateur sport to act like this is all extremely serious business, no fun allowed.

Okay, so, since NextLevel has brought up a point that may have some validity, and nobody knows if it does but you, and that means, I may as well ask you some questions to see if there is some reason why people in the club may feel you are obligated to join one of their league teams because of some service you are receiving that has some form of strings attached.

1) Is there anyone else who is a member of the club that is not part of the league?
2) If there are others who are not part of the league, are they also eventually being cajoled into joining the league?
3) Is there any service the club is providing to you that seems like is being tied to joining the league, or is there anything anywhere in the process of joining that would indicate that, if you join the club they expect you to be participate in their league?
4) When you first joined the club was there anything that made you understand that participating in the league was part of becoming a club member?

==

The answers to these questions not withstanding, in reading through this thread and seeing people's responses to your posts and comments, I am actually surprised how many respondents, it seemed to me, just did not understand what you were posting and/or asking about and were absolutely answering questions that had nothing to do with what is going on at your club for you.

To me, so many of the responses sounded like people were assuming you wanted to join the league and were being difficult because you wanted to join the league and you wanted to do it on your terms. Rather than the idea that you just did not want to join the league at all and were:
1) Being pressured into it.
2) Being pressured into joining a division that would cause you to not want to play at all: who wants to be matched against players you can beat in your sleep or players who can beat you the same way where you can't learn or improve from either circumstance.

And if that is the scenario you are talking about, to me, several of the comments in this thread seem seriously out of line.

And if those were the only choices, I would feel either was a waste of time and absolutely not worth considering and would not be paying money to have that kind of waste of time imposed on me.

Trust yourself. You are playing for your own enjoyment, not for the kind of drama you described where players from the club are arguing with you and themselves about where you will play without any of the options being remotely reasonable.

 

[NextLevel]

Okay, so, since NextLevel has brought up a point that may have some validity, and nobody knows if it does but you, and that means, I may as well ask you some questions to see if there is some reason why people in the club may feel you are obligated to join one of their league teams because of some service you are receiving that has some form of strings attached.

1) Is there anyone else who is a member of the club that is not part of the league?
2) If there are others who are not part of the league, are they also eventually being cajoled into joining the league?
3) Is there any service the club is providing to you that seems like is being tied to joining the league, or is there anything anywhere in the process of joining that would indicate that, if you join the club they expect you to be participate in their league?
4) When you first joined the club was there anything that made you understand that participating in the league was part of becoming a club member?

==

The answers to these questions not withstanding, in reading through this thread and seeing people's responses to your posts and comments, I am actually surprised how many respondents, it seemed to me, just did not understand what you were posting and/or asking about and were absolutely answering questions that had nothing to do with what is going on at your club for you.

To me, so many of the responses sounded like people were assuming you wanted to join the league and were being difficult because you wanted to join the league and you wanted to do it on your terms. Rather than the idea that you just did not want to join the league at all and were:
1) Being pressured into it.
2) Being pressured into joining a division that would cause you to not want to play at all: who wants to be matched against players you can beat in your sleep or players who can beat you the same way where you can't learn or improve from either circumstance.

And if that is the scenario you are talking about, to me, several of the comments in this thread seem seriously out of line.

And if those were the only choices, I would feel either was a waste of time and absolutely not worth considering and would not be paying money to have that kind of waste of time imposed on me.

Trust yourself. You are playing for your own enjoyment, not for the kind of drama you described where players from the club are arguing with you and themselves about where you will play without any of the options being remotely reasonable.

One last question ‐ does the club or someone in the club gain in reputation or funding somehow by having teams that perform oe participate in leagues?

As an aside, there was a recent kerfuffle between an African top player and his national association because the player wanted to select his own coach to be the best player he could be, while the national association wanted to force on him a coach (per the player, that title is debatable)who wanted to use the player as a path to attend the Olympics and add to his resume. The player decided to forego qualifying for the Olympics rather than accept the coach. Obviously depending on other factors (I believe he qualified and played in Tokyo already for one), he might have have chosen differently. While many focus on the corrupt dimension of what is happening, one can take a broader look at the whole thing and understand what is driving people to do what they do even if you don't entirely agree with what they are doing.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

One last question ‐ does the club or someone in the club gain in reputation or funding somehow by having teams that perform oe participate in leagues?

Good question. That would make it a little more understandable at least even if I still might not want the drama if I was in the situation.

As an aside, there was a recent kerfuffle between an African top player and his national association because the player wanted to select his own coach to be the best player he could be, while the national association wanted to force on him a coach (per the player, that title is debatable)who wanted to use the player as a path to attend the Olympics and add to his resume. The player decided to forego qualifying for the Olympics rather than accept the coach. Obviously depending on other factors (I believe he qualified and played in Tokyo already for one), he might have have chosen differently. While many focus on the corrupt dimension of what is happening, one can take a broader look at the whole thing and understand what is driving people to do what they do even if you don't entirely agree with what they are doing.

Interesting. It is a nice parallel scenario.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

OP,

If you play in a tourney that is way above your level, the team captain will relegate you in the next tourney.

If you play in a tourney that is way below your level, the team captain will promote you in the next tourney.

Water will eventually find its balance. Be like water, my friend.

P/s: If you don't want to compete and just want exercise; then play with rebound board or robot. Good exercise those are.

 

[Lazer]

Carl, nothing else to add other than you have perfectly summed it up and reflected my thoughts. It is exactly how you wrote it.

I have never asked for playing in the league. I have no ego, I am totally indifferent about participating. I only do it because about 30 people have asked me to. And now, I cant escape the drama.

And, I will never understand this aspect of amateur sport. To me, it is about fun of improving, socializing with my buddies, workout to keep my body moving, stay healthy. And ppl use this place of amateur sport to act like this is all extremely serious business, no fun allowed.

It’s about your club, they like to put players in leagues, it’s the same where I am from. The club benefits from having a lot of competitors. If you have the time join from the bottom it’s the best alternative. You will get more respect this way.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Aizen]

I also like training waay more than competition,
but somehow eventually clubs encourage players to compete.
I can imagine that club authorities would like to see more people in competition, and have success.

And also being in competition makes more bounding with club and others, and opportunity to play.

OP,

If you play in a tourney that is way above your level, the team captain will relegate you in the next tourney.

If you play in a tourney that is way below your level, the team captain will promote you in the next tourney.

Water will eventually find its balance. Be like water, my friend.

P/s: If you don't want to compete and just want exercise; then play with rebound board or robot. Good exercise those are.

It may not be always the case, depends on availability in upper or lower teams at least immediately. And it requires distinct win/rate like below %20 or above %80.

But I agree with you, eventually it should be fine, maybe after 3-4 season.

 

[doppelmoral]

1) Is there anyone else who is a member of the club that is not part of the league?
2) If there are others who are not part of the league, are they also eventually being cajoled into joining the league?
3) Is there any service the club is providing to you that seems like is being tied to joining the league, or is there anything anywhere in the process of joining that would indicate that, if you join the club they expect you to be participate in their league?
4) When you first joined the club was there anything that made you understand that participating in the league was part of becoming a club member?

Hi Carl,
let me answer some of these questions:
1) Yes, there are other members of the club that are not part of the league.
2) No, they are often not even pursued or simply not being pressured. The reason? They are not very skilled, and the ppl who make the decision do not care enough to bother them. Sounds harsh, but its true. I am being pressured only because I would be a valuable addition for the roster
3) Not really, except occasional training which the club is paying for, where they invite german 3rd league players do to coaching. It is only once or twice a year though, not a regular or frequent thing
4) DIfficult questions to answer, most clubs usually expect you to play for them. But when I joined there , it was because I clicked rlly well with a few ppl, explained to them that I dont rlly want to participate in the league, and they were totally fine with it. So its mixed, some ppl expected it, others said I dont have to, others didnt care

To me, so many of the responses sounded like people were assuming you wanted to join the league and were being difficult because you wanted to join the league and you wanted to do it on your terms. Rather than the idea that you just did not want to join the league at all and were:
1) Being pressured into it.
2) Being pressured into joining a division that would cause you to not want to play at all: who wants to be matched against players you can beat in your sleep or players who can beat you the same way where you can't learn or improve from either circumstance.

Thank you for saying this. It is exactly how you describe it. I didnt want to join it, I did it for them. And once they convinced me to play, they decided to act strange, bossing me around. I have heard this senctence from at least 5 different ppl in the club: You HAVE to bite the bullet, it doesnt matter if you dont have fun in the very lowest league that exists, as long as the team gets stronger. I told them directly in to their face that it will kill my desire for table tennis and I will quit the sport again. And I say that not to be petty, it is truly how I feel. Their response? "We will see". Some ppl in the club are willing to take this risk.

By the way, this might sound arrogant, but I think I am a great addition to the club. I am there 4-5 times a week, I have a hit with everyone, and everyone who asks me gets all my insights and tips and tricks for improvement. I share them always because I dont compete anyway. I even do multiball for free for ppl because I like to coach them, and I have no benefit at all other than its fun.

One last question ‐ does the club or someone in the club gain in reputation or funding somehow by having teams that perform oe participate in leagues?

Hard question to answer. The club has a relation to a famous soccer/football club which is very well known around the world. BUT: this is only for soccer/football.
The club has many about 30-40 different branches of amateur sport, and rlly it is amateur sport for all other branches expect football. For example, the highest team in the table tennis department plays in the 5th or 6th league maybe? Very far away from semi-pro even. So, it is not for prestige to put someone like me into their team, it is not about funding also. And they are also not actively trying to climb into the semi pro or pro level, no attempts in that direction are made, I know that for a fact. We are under the same "flag" as the football team, but its not tied to each other in any way, because the amateur branch functions as any other amateur club.

For the club its just important to be representative of the whole institution, but not from the competitive standpoint, more from dont talk shit or embarass your club by behaving strange at big events, if you get what I am saying.

 

[NetProphet]

He's been asked to join one of the weaker teams to help them and he said no. Nice team attitude.
So then he was told the other space was on the strong team where he is not good enough.
And he's complaining about it all.
It's as simple as that really.

There's no 'i' in team, but it does have an 'm' and an 'e'. 😂

 

[doppelmoral]

He's been asked to join one of the weaker teams to help them and he said no. Nice team attitude.
So then he was told the other space was on the strong team where he is not good enough.
And he's complaining about it all.
It's as simple as that really.

There's no 'I' in team, but it does have an 'm' and an 'e'. 😂

I think you have it all wrong. I said from the start I dont need or want competition. Then imagine, every training you go to for 6 months, ppl come and ask you to play.

And when you agree finally because of the pressure of everyone, you get put into a team where you lose your joy of table tennis.

I think this part is hard for many to understand, but I dont want or need the competition and league participation. I am just happy doing the practise + training matches. Most ppl I know hate training and only want play in the league. I never walk up to them and tell them to train more, yet everyone feels like they can do that with me. Why? Because hating practise and loving the league is the consensus.

I think you are still assuming that I play the league for myself. No, I repeat myself, I do it 100% for them, as practise is atleast 10x more fun for me. All I asked for was to put me in a reasonable team if I have to play. And you still observe the situation as "I am complaining and demanding XY". You confuse me.

 

[NetProphet]

I think you have it all wrong. I said from the start I dont need or want competition. Then imagine, every training you go to for 6 months, ppl come and ask you to play.

And when you agree finally because of the pressure of everyone, you get put into a team where you lose your joy of table tennis.

I think this part is hard for many to understand, but I dont want or need the competition and league participation. I am just happy doing the practise + training matches. Most ppl I know hate training and only want play in the league. I never walk up to them and tell them to train more, yet everyone feels like they can do that with me. Why? Because hating practise and loving the league is the consensus.

Your post title is 'attempts to play in competitive environment'. Are you not attempting to play but are not happy at the team you are being put into?
If you just DONT WANT TO PLAY, than just don't play, no attempt required.

I have to say, I am not sure you are explaining yourself very well and send mixed messages.
In the first post you say "Whenever I suggest to just put me in a reasonable league that corresponds to my playing ability, I get ignored."
That says you want league but are fussy about what team.

Then you go on to say (in response to being chucked in the strong team)
"What I hate is that even when I say no because it makes no sense"...
Again, objecting to the team. You're not saying ' I do not want to play league.

Then you say "My stance is, pls put me in a reasonable team that somewhat corresponds my level, but thats not happening"
Again, you're saying that the selected team is the problem, NOT the 'playing league' aspect.

And so on and so on.

Personally I think you're dressing it up because people have pointed out you're not being a team player and it seems you can't accept that.
But it really looks like that is the truth of the matter.
If you had helped out the weaker team from the beginning all would be fine. But your pride is in the way, because YOU ARE A TOP 10 PLAYER AT THE CLUB and they must treat you as such, even though you have no ranking.
You come off as a young, arrogant, entitled millennial who won't earn his stripes in helping out the team they asked you to.

 

[doppelmoral]

Your post title is 'attempts to play in competitive environment'. Are you not attempting to play but are not happy at the team you are being put into?
If you just DONT WANT TO PLAY, than just don't play, no attempt required.

I have to say, I am not sure you are explaining yourself very well and send mixed messages.
In the first post you say "Whenever I suggest to just put me in a reasonable league that corresponds to my playing ability, I get ignored."
That says you want league but are fussy about what team.

Then you go on to say (in response to being chucked in the strong team)
"What I hate is that even when I say no because it makes no sense"...
Again, objecting to the team. You're not saying ' I do not want to play league.

Then you say "My stance is, pls put me in a reasonable team that somewhat corresponds my level, but thats not happening"
Again, you're saying that the selected team is the problem, NOT the 'playing league' aspect.

And so on and so on.

Personally I think you're dressing it up because people have pointed out you're not being a team player and it seems you can't accept that.
But it really looks like that is the truth of the matter.
If you had helped out the weaker team from the beginning all would be fine. But your pride is in the way, because YOU ARE A TOP 10 PLAYER AT THE CLUB and they must treat you as such, even though you have no ranking.
You come off as a young, arrogant, entitled millennial who won't earn his stripes in helping out the team they asked you to.

No, I am sorry but you got it all wrong. This might be because of my English, idk.
All those things you quoted, when I made a suggestion or how you call it where I objected to the team, was after I told them for months directly into their faces that I do not want to compete.
After I finally agreed because ppl persuaded me, and truthfully because of the pressure, then I made the suggestion that okay, please consider me for a fitting team.

Of course you are right, if I dont want to play , just dont play. It sounds simple and it is right. But surely you have had human interactions before and know group dynamics? It is not always easy to say no if there are 5-10 ppl confronting you directly at the table, so you give in a bit because you dont wanna be that guy who always rejects them everytime.

You now saying I secretly want to play the league but under my conditions is just not true.

I wish we could have a hit in the club, and I think your impression of me would drastically change. Calling me arrogant and entitled well, what about the guys that cant take a no for a no? They are the majority so they can do anything, right?

by the way, this is why this post is marked as a 'rant'. Logically, it is easy to solve. just say no, and done. But I like most of my club members, they ask me for help so I want to help them if it means much to them, it is an emotional topic. But everyone should have fun out of the situation, is my stance anyway.
Maybe in the initial post, I should have written that I dont rlly want to participate in the first place. Of course you couldnt have known that, so I understand your reaction. But I wrote the post in the heat of the moment, and forgot about that 'detail'. But I explained myself in other posts clearly.

Basically, it is how Carl described it.

 

[NetProphet]

I'm honestly just commenting on how it seems based on what I've read.
But I'm not saying you secretly want to play, I'm going on what you've written.

Your very first post: "my club is in constant debate in which league they should put me. Some argue that it must be the lowest team because thats where I can carry the most, despite being way too low league for me. Others want to put me in a league which is way above my level, just because of internal politics, it has nothing to do with team chemistry or my actual playing ability. Whenever I suggest to just put me in a reasonable league that corresponds to my playing ability, I get ignored."

Hey, if its lost in translation then then I get it - fair enough.
Over

 

[doppelmoral]

I'm honestly just commenting on how it seems based on what I've read.
But I'm not saying you secretly want to play, I'm going on what you've written.

Your very first post: "my club is in constant debate in which league they should put me. Some argue that it must be the lowest team because thats where I can carry the most, despite being way too low league for me. Others want to put me in a league which is way above my level, just because of internal politics, it has nothing to do with team chemistry or my actual playing ability. Whenever I suggest to just put me in a reasonable league that corresponds to my playing ability, I get ignored."

Hey, if its lost in translation then then I get it - fair enough.
Over

Well I agree that I didnt articulate myself all that well, or not precisely. So no offense taken, and I did appreciate your insights and opinion nonetheless.

This was just to blow off some steam, and hear other ppl stances on it.
Have a nice Sunday!

 

[NetProphet]

Well I agree that I didnt articulate myself all that well, or not precisely. So no offense taken, and I did appreciate your insights and opinion nonetheless.

This was just to blow off some steam, and hear other ppl stances on it.
Have a nice Sunday!

Ok
But it still exists that:
- you play at a club 4-5 times a week.
- this benefits you greatly as you improve and enjoy your TT.
- There is a team you could could help but you've said no.
- BUT you admit several times that you would have no issues helping out the team that YOU want to help.
Saying you'll help this team but not that team is not saying that you DO NOT WANT to play league.
That is you thinking of you and not recognising that it is a CLUB with TEAMS despite the benefit you've had playing up there what, 400 times in the previous 2 yrs

You still seem completely oblivious to this entire side of things.
Try organising and running the club for a few yrs and see how it goes. I've done this so I can see perfectly the other side of it.
You are still blinkered and don't want any help to see that.
At my club you'd be marginalized fairly quickly with that attitude.
If you were just saying an unequivocal and firm NO this thread would not exist.

 

[doppelmoral]

Ok
But it still exists that:
- you play at a club 4-5 times a week.
- this benefits you greatly as you improve and enjoy your TT.
- There is a team you could could help but you've said no.
- BUT you admit several times that you would have no issues helping out the team that YOU want to help.
Saying you'll help this team but not that team is not saying that you DO NOT WANT to play league.
That is you thinking of you and not recognising that it is a CLUB with TEAMS despite the benefit you've had playing up there what, 400 times in the previous 2 yrs

You still seem completely oblivious to this entire side of things.
Try organising and running the club for a few yrs and see how it goes. I've done this so I can see perfectly the other side of it.
You are still blinkered and don't want any help to see that.
At my club you'd be marginalized fairly quickly with that attitude.
If you were just saying an unequivocal and firm NO this thread would not exist.

Well your argument is I owe it to them

Following your logic, I HAVE to quit table tennis, there is no club in my entire country who will not pressure me into playing competition, and If I practise there once I am indebted, yeah I dont think so

Of course I am the only one benefitting, because me being friendly, playing with almost everyone, teaching them and giving tips, feeding multiball, paying my monthly fee, it means nothing

 

[doppelmoral]

This is by the way the actual reality of table tennis in my country. If you visit a new club, and you havent even hit one ball yet (not kidding), they already handing you the piece of paper to sign that you will play for their club in the upcoming season. They do that before even introducing themselves, the club, the team or anything.

And this is not personal bias, I have heard that story many times from TT buddies, and experienced it myself aswell. It fully contradicts with my expectation of amateur sports.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Your post title is 'attempts to play in competitive environment'. Are you not attempting to play but are not happy at the team you are being put into?
If you just DONT WANT TO PLAY, than just don't play, no attempt required.

I have to say, I am not sure you are explaining yourself very well and send mixed messages.
In the first post you say "Whenever I suggest to just put me in a reasonable league that corresponds to my playing ability, I get ignored."
That says you want league but are fussy about what team.

Then you go on to say (in response to being chucked in the strong team)
"What I hate is that even when I say no because it makes no sense"...
Again, objecting to the team. You're not saying ' I do not want to play league.

Then you say "My stance is, pls put me in a reasonable team that somewhat corresponds my level, but thats not happening"
Again, you're saying that the selected team is the problem, NOT the 'playing league' aspect.

And so on and so on.

Personally I think you're dressing it up because people have pointed out you're not being a team player and it seems you can't accept that.
But it really looks like that is the truth of the matter.
If you had helped out the weaker team from the beginning all would be fine. But your pride is in the way, because YOU ARE A TOP 10 PLAYER AT THE CLUB and they must treat you as such, even though you have no ranking.
You come off as a young, arrogant, entitled millennial who won't earn his stripes in helping out the team they asked you to.

Based on what I read, to me, it sounds like you free associated and misunderstood everything doppelmoral tried to explain about the situation. I did not get any of what you are expressing and got something completely different.

Ok
But it still exists that:
- you play at a club 4-5 times a week.
- this benefits you greatly as you improve and enjoy your TT.
- There is a team you could could help but you've said no.
- BUT you admit several times that you would have no issues helping out the team that YOU want to help.
Saying you'll help this team but not that team is not saying that you DO NOT WANT to play league.
That is you thinking of you and not recognising that it is a CLUB with TEAMS despite the benefit you've had playing up there what, 400 times in the previous 2 yrs

You still seem completely oblivious to this entire side of things.
Try organising and running the club for a few yrs and see how it goes. I've done this so I can see perfectly the other side of it.
You are still blinkered and don't want any help to see that.
At my club you'd be marginalized fairly quickly with that attitude.
If you were just saying an unequivocal and firm NO this thread would not exist.

And, I think this is still, you not getting the situation or refusing to.

If you were starting to play TT after having stopped, found a club, started playing again as an adult who is just playing for recreation and exercise and just wanted to go to the club, pay your dues, train a few days a week AND ENJOY YOUR TIME TRAINING, and you specifically said you did not want to play in league, and you were asked to play, and for months you said you really just wanted to train, and you did not want to play in league, and finally, after months where you are going to do something where you enjoy your time, and while having some fun training, get some exercise, you finally cave in to the coercive requests of people (NOT THE CLUB OWNERS BUT THE OTHER PLAYERS AT THE CLUB) to join the league, and then they decide to put you on a team where playing would be a waste of your time because you would either win EASILY while playing with your left hand, or LOSE in a way where there was nothing you could learn from how badly you were beaten AND THERE WAS NO OFFER OF SOMETHING EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLING you being put in a league with players close to the appropriate level for you, WOULD YOU WANT TO CONTINUE PLAYING?

I personally would go ride my bike where I don't need other people to enjoy training and I don't have to pay club dues to be put through the boredom and monotony of "competitively" playing people I should be coaching or "competitively" playing people who should coach me instead; where an actual competitive match is just not in the realm of possibilities.

It would be interesting to know how many players in doppelmoral's predicament have walked away from table tennis because of scenarios like what he is describing. To me, this really does make me wonder.

 

[doppelmoral]

Based on what I read, to me, it sounds like you free associated and misunderstood everything doppelmoral tried to explain about the situation. I did not get any of what you are expressing and got something completely different.



And, I think this is still, you not getting the situation or refusing to.

If you were starting to play TT after having stopped, found a club, started playing again as an adult who is just playing for recreation and exercise and just wanted to go to the club, pay your dues, train a few days a week AND ENJOY YOUR TIME TRAINING, and you specifically said you did not want to play in league, and you were asked to play, and for months you said you really just wanted to train, and you did not want to play in league, and finally, after months where you are going to do something where you enjoy your time, and while having some fun training, get some exercise, you finally cave in to the coercive requests of people (NOT THE CLUB OWNERS BUT THE OTHER PLAYERS AT THE CLUB) to join the league, and then the decide to put you on a team where playing would be a waste of your time because you would either win EASILY while playing with your left hand, or LOSE in a way where there was nothing you could learn from how badly you were beaten AND THERE WAS NO OFFER OF SOMETHING EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLING you being put in a league with players close to the appropriate level for you, WOULD YOU WANT TO CONTINUE PLAYING?

I personally would go ride my bike where I don't need other people to enjoy training and I don't have to pay club dues to be put through the boredom and monotony of playing people I should be coaching or playing people who should coach me instead; where an actual competitive match is just not in the realm of possibilities.

It would be interesting to know how many players in doppelmoral's predicament have walked away from table tennis because of scenarios like what he is describing. To me, this really does make me wonder.

Thank you Carl, it is exactly like that.

Because of the ongoing situation I get feelings of wanting to quit TT, or take a break, and just go hiking in the nature. All because of the social construct within the club and pressure that is artificially created by the other club members (not owners, as you rightly pointed out, as they dont care at all)

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

To me, the idea that doppelmoral is saying the scenario is exactly what I described and there is still pushback that he should be bored and put up with torture for the sake of others while continuing to pay to be tortured seems to me to point out a flaw in the way some TT players are thinking of the sport.

doppelmoral, cycling is lots of fun, you are outside, you get great cardio, after you have a nice bike, you don't need anyone else but it is easy to find people to ride with where it is social. And you are outside, and when you take a 2 hour bike ride, you end up going 30-40 miles (48-56km) and can end up in lots of beautiful places.

Now, of course I am partway kidding, but, it is interesting how this attitude, easily seen from forum members as well, that you can't just train, you have to pay your dues to join a club and then you have to also endure torture and waste your valuable time, because someone else wants you to be in their league....well, someone who is a busy person, who has a job, life responsibilities, that person may not need more chains constricting him/her.

TT should not be a chore you have to endure. If you are not doing it for the league, if you are doing it for your own physical health and well being and your own physical and mental stimulation, then it is kind of sad that the attitude of others seems to be ruining the sport for you.....and I wonder how many other people find themselves in that same boat.

If you did actually want to be in the league, then I think it would be fine to start at the bottom. But if you are only doing it because nobody at your club seems to understand why you don't want to be in the league, then that is just unfortunate.

Sorry, I don't think you should have to put yourself through that nonsense to appease other people and what they want from you.

 

[NetProphet]

Based on what I read, to me, it sounds like you free associated and misunderstood everything doppelmoral tried to explain about the situation. I did not get any of what you are expressing and got something completely different.



And, I think this is still, you not getting the situation or refusing to.

If you were starting to play TT after having stopped, found a club, started playing again as an adult who is just playing for recreation and exercise and just wanted to go to the club, pay your dues, train a few days a week AND ENJOY YOUR TIME TRAINING, and you specifically said you did not want to play in league, and you were asked to play, and for months you said you really just wanted to train, and you did not want to play in league, and finally, after months where you are going to do something where you enjoy your time, and while having some fun training, get some exercise, you finally cave in to the coercive requests of people (NOT THE CLUB OWNERS BUT THE OTHER PLAYERS AT THE CLUB) to join the league, and then they decide to put you on a team where playing would be a waste of your time because you would either win EASILY while playing with your left hand, or LOSE in a way where there was nothing you could learn from how badly you were beaten AND THERE WAS NO OFFER OF SOMETHING EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLING you being put in a league with players close to the appropriate level for you, WOULD YOU WANT TO CONTINUE PLAYING?

I personally would go ride my bike where I don't need other people to enjoy training and I don't have to pay club dues to be put through the boredom and monotony of "competitively" playing people I should be coaching or "competitively" playing people who should coach me instead; where an actual competitive match is just not in the realm of possibilities.

It would be interesting to know how many players in doppelmoral's predicament have walked away from table tennis because of scenarios like what he is describing. To me, this really does make me wonder.

I am not refusing to and your post to explain what he allegedly wanted to say has so many assumptions in it that it's a bit ridiculous.

I'm not gonna read it again cos it's long but I remember for example you say on his behalf that him playing in a lower team would be a waste of everyones time.
That's a pretty ridiculous assumption to make and I challenge it outright because obviously there are people running the club that disagree, it's wouldn't be a waste of time to the teams he is helping and it very likely would not be a waste of his own time either cos instead of being the guy who will only play in team X he would then be the guy who's killing it for team 3 over there, and he might even enjoy it.
If it takes the OP 8 posts to finally express himself with several mixed messages then I can only imagine the situation at the club. No I won't play, OK I'll play with this team, no I won't play at all, please don't put me in the higher team, no, only if it's exactly what I want, actually NO, I don't want to play league at all.... bla bla bla and on and on.
And the loose interpretation from you is highly ambiguous because the OP agreeing with everything you write is also the OP contradicting what he himself wrote more than once.
It's a club, with teams dude.
You can see whatever you want but you're both ignoring an entire side of the story, that of what's best for the club.
By all means, go and do whatevers is best for yourself.
But at a club you better do what's best for you AND the club (TEAMS) or you quickly get identified as a problem.
Hence this neverending thread.
If he had been offered the team he wanted this thread wouldn't even exist.
If he had helped out the weak team this thread wouldn't exist.