Appears as though my service receive vs heavy side/top is bad. (video critique requested)

[suds79]

Here I have myself (the left handed penholder) vs two players at club who specialize in heavy side/top & side/back spin serves. There's no real mystery to their game. Their approach is "Here is is. What are you going to do about it." which is completely valid for some.

I have mixed in various return clips that go well for me and most that do not. For example there are some serves to my FH of side/top that go well and honestly I don't initially see anything different I did from say others where I flat out missed it. Open to feed back or trends you see.

This is also why it's important to record yourself. You learn so much. While putting this together I realize just how often the penholder is serving me side/top. And it works for him a lot of times so why not. If I can figure that out, I'll stand a better chance to beat him given I fair better vs his side/back.

Secondly, lets talk tactics.

Have you ever faced someone who gives a heavy side/top serve that you struggle with? It seems easy but I find the ball kicks really hard off the rubber so I can't exactly swing hard. Otherwise it's easy to send long. Sometimes if your blade is too closed to account for the topspin, it's easy to have the ball skid and go into the net. Furthermore, I find players that do this type of serve typically like the predictable ball that comes back to whatever side (because of their sidespin) and they're into the point they desire. (see 1:27 in my video)

What do you like to do? I figure I could stop trying to play it off the bounce so much, where the spin is the highest, and let it come off a little bit, every so slightly cool off on the spin and counter/fish ever so slightly it on. That'd be safer but not really dangerous. But I would be a pinch further off the table where i can look to work in a heavy loop after that which is what I'm looking for int he point. I could mix in an occasional chop just for the sake of not giving them what they want. Or I could not mess around with all this and always counter back these serves (see 1:49) and keep working on it until it's automatic even though I for some reason miss this shot too often. Feels like 50/50 to me right now. If you watch the video you'll see a couple of times I do a loop as if facing backspin but it's actually side/top and my returns naturally goes long. Wrong stroke. The ball is already loaded with top. Why try to add more? Go forward.

We all have our strengths & weaknesses. I know some guys at our club who I would classify as hitters who would salivate at this type of serve and smack it. I've never been that style of player being more spin based. IDK. I could be over thinking it. If nothing else I'm pretty sure I need to mix in or be ready with that closed RPB on side/top serves to my backhand side. Too many times I play that with the more natural to me TPB and the blade isn't closed enough. Even if I do get it on, because it's just a passive block with TPB, it's not all that dangerous or imposing.

Appreciate any feedback you all might have.

 

[Infernal]

Loop long ones. Loop with a more closed angle and make sure you do not lift the ball. If it is heavy side you could wait for it to pass the top of the trajectory even. Many serves are easier to loop when the ball is on the way down (even though the return is suboptimal, but hey, we are not pros).


Flip/flick short ones, but you could also practice drop shots.

I was practicing 3rd ball attacks with my coach recently, and he showed me something I thought was impossible with regular inverted rubbers: if you return the serve with a heavy contact, you kill the spin; if you return it with a light touch you return the spin back to the server. So if the serve is super heavy sidespin, you can try returning it lightly, that would really screw the server b/c it will continue curving on their side of the table.

Also, if it is super heavy topspin, then you can contact it on the side when you flip it or drop shot it, this way the spin does not affect you as much.

 

[Dr Evil]

You're missing a lot of easy reads. I think the main problem is you're tall and standing too straight. Get your eyes closer to net level and you'll probably read those serves easily.

 

[blahness]

I know exactly this situation. When you loop you need to close angle a bit (but not too much) and when you followthrough you can think a bit about wiping it sideways at the back of the ball. Hitting through the ball is a nono if you already have a bouncy af setup and the incoming ball is loaded with topspin. You want to maximise the spin - not so much the speed as the ball already has a lot of speed.

 

[Tyce]

You're missing a lot of easy reads. I think the main problem is you're tall and standing too straight. Get your eyes closer to net level and you'll probably read those serves easily.

What would be helpful for this is wearing shorts and low indoor sports shoes.

Long trousers discourage knee bending
Sneakers usually have quite a bit of a raised heel, which is great for standing still but not for being quick on your feet.
Penhold in particular is much better with good footwork.

 

[jk1980]

a few things to note:
- the push return of the backspin variants are good enough and dont allow your opponent to attack immediately
- the movement on the serve is not brushing enough to impart any huge spin in regards of backspin or topspin
- low backspin will become no- or topspin on tables that have high friction with the ball

A few of the receives where the ball went long was because you took the ball too early of the bounce above the table. The same contact hitting the ball 3 cm later (when it comes off the table) would have landed these balls on the table.

If we are to believe measurements and statements of ESN spinsight the advice "let the ball drop and wait for the spin to diminish" is insustained superstition. ESN spinsight said from the point of content on the opponents side they measured the speed and spin of the ball and came to the conclusion that while the ball will reach the receiver with only 60% of the speed, but with >95% of the spin. So if the spin only deteriorates by 5 % traveling 2.52 meters over the table, i doubt that adding another 20cm will change much of the spin on it (especially since the amount of friction contacts with the table does not increase).

All in all you can loop or flip all of these, because the backspin is negligible and does not require much "upswing". The biggest challenge for you seems to account for the energy in the ball and not add to much to it. It will be enough to brush over the ball without much forward force at all, since the ball already has enough energy to bounce of your record over the net.