Barefoot shoes

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maybe not quite for the reason you might think: From google """"Foot-binding persisted because it ensured that young girls sat still and worked at a boring, sedentary task for many hours each day, , and it died out only when manufactured cloth and foreign imports eliminated the economic value of handwork"""""

That's pretty much it, need to add that "in ye-olde China , it is considered to be improper for women to run about, they are only supposed to move in gentle steps". It's basically the same as corsets in the victorian era, but for the feet.

 
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That's pretty much it, need to add that "in ye-olde China , it is considered to be improper for women to run about, they are only supposed to move in gentle steps". It's basically the same as corsets in the victorian era, but for the feet.

Which in the "not so olde china" 😀 this was of course true for the upper class ladies but for the other mega millions it was a cruel way
of basically "binding" them to manual labor for life

 
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old thread I know but I use these Vivos to play in:


I recommend this pair (once you've trained your body and adapted) for sports like table tennis because the FG sole has a little bit of extra cushion which does help when playing this sport. I can personally attest to these shoes and the tournament i played 12 matches in one day in them.

Definitely don't wear these to play table tennis if you have just started wearing barefoot. You need to train your feet and legs in barefoot shoes for at least 7-9 months before you consider playing a sport like table tennis.

Someone commented that barefoot shoes do not provide ankle support needed for table tennis. That is only partially true. There is no ankle support coming from your SHOE but when you wear barefoot shoes your foot and ankle (and strong calves) become all the support you need.

Once you have adapted to barefoot shoes, and started to regain some of the intended strength and mobility, your feet will feel stronger and better than ever. I used to roll my ankle playing sports in other shoes. i had to wear ankle braces. i taped my ankles every time i played soccer because i was so weak in the ankles. After i started wearing vivos, i never sprained my ankle again. I've rolled my ankle (not playing table tennis) but it resulted in no injury. I credit this to the strength in my ankle, and my foot's ability to sense the misstep, and make a lighting fast correction.

When you wear normal shoes, you literally dampen the senses in your feet, which can result in many other lower extremity injuries. for example, you can wear a nice pair of hokas and go on long runs. it feels like you're on a cloud. but what you're not realizing is that every step you take, you're striking the ground with your heel first, and each heel strike is like a bad jolt up your leg, literally causing microfractures in your shins (shin splints) and other long term knee injuries. In barefoot shoes, you cannot run with bad technique for extended periods because your body will tell you right away, THIS HURTS. The bottom of your feet have just as many senses as the palm of your hands.

anyways, I digress.
 
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old thread I know but I use these Vivos to play in:


I recommend this pair (once you've trained your body and adapted) for sports like table tennis because the FG sole has a little bit of extra cushion which does help when playing this sport. I can personally attest to these shoes and the tournament i played 12 matches in one day in them.

Definitely don't wear these to play table tennis if you have just started wearing barefoot. You need to train your feet and legs in barefoot shoes for at least 7-9 months before you consider playing a sport like table tennis.

Someone commented that barefoot shoes do not provide ankle support needed for table tennis. That is only partially true. There is no ankle support coming from your SHOE but when you wear barefoot shoes your foot and ankle (and strong calves) become all the support you need.

Once you have adapted to barefoot shoes, and started to regain some of the intended strength and mobility, your feet will feel stronger and better than ever. I used to roll my ankle playing sports in other shoes. i had to wear ankle braces. i taped my ankles every time i played soccer because i was so weak in the ankles. After i started wearing vivos, i never sprained my ankle again. I've rolled my ankle (not playing table tennis) but it resulted in no injury. I credit this to the strength in my ankle, and my foot's ability to sense the misstep, and make a lighting fast correction.

When you wear normal shoes, you literally dampen the senses in your feet, which can result in many other lower extremity injuries. for example, you can wear a nice pair of hokas and go on long runs. it feels like you're on a cloud. but what you're not realizing is that every step you take, you're striking the ground with your heel first, and each heel strike is like a bad jolt up your leg, literally causing microfractures in your shins (shin splints) and other long term knee injuries. In barefoot shoes, you cannot run with bad technique for extended periods because your body will tell you right away, THIS HURTS. The bottom of your feet have just as many senses as the palm of your hands.

anyways, I digress.
Because I had these ongoing problems with my feet I started to look at footwork of the top players in the videos. Conclusion was that they virtually never come off the balls of their feet.
Table tennis at the top level is a dance, a fast dance.
 
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Because I had these ongoing problems with my feet I started to look at footwork of the top players in the videos. Conclusion was that they virtually never come off the balls of their feet.
Table tennis at the top level is a dance, a fast dance.
Exactly! For this reason, it’s definitely possible to play in barefoot shoes. Definitely don’t recommend for barefoot beginners. I walked in barefoot shoes for two months before doing just a 100m run. Then I would add 100m to my run each week until I could comfortable run a mile in my vivos. Then After about 8 months of being in my vivos, I felt comfortable enough to wear them in table tennis. Feet feel great!
 
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Exactly! For this reason, it’s definitely possible to play in barefoot shoes. Definitely don’t recommend for barefoot beginners.I walked in barefoot shoes for two months before doing just a 100m run. Then I would add 100m to my run each week until I could comfortable run a mile in my vivos. Then After about 8 months of being in my vivos, I felt comfortable enough to wear them in table tennis. Feet feel great!
I've gone the other way, I've just given up most footwork. 😂
A step to the left , a step to the right, that's about it.
My doubles partner reckoned "at least I know where you are - and will be" 😂
 
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But in a sport where there are sudden unexpected movements that could result in you landing on you heels, I don’t think it’s a good idea to wear bare foot shoes. The whole idea of barefoot shoes is that if you can make sure you land on the ball of your feet, then you can avoid injuries, but what if you can’t guarantee it? Also, I’ve searched before, and yet to find peer reviewed papers on barefoot shoes being better at avoiding injuries in sports. It’s good for avoiding bunions, but if you already have them then wearing barefoot shoes aren’t going to fix it either.
 
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But in a sport where there are sudden unexpected movements that could result in you landing on you heels, I don’t think it’s a good idea to wear bare foot shoes. The whole idea of barefoot shoes is that if you can make sure you land on the ball of your feet, then you can avoid injuries, but what if you can’t guarantee it? Also, I’ve searched before, and yet to find peer reviewed papers on barefoot shoes being better at avoiding injuries in sports. It’s good for avoiding bunions, but if you already have them then wearing barefoot shoes aren’t going to fix it either.
If i understand the arguments in Jslick89's post # 24 he clearly says that one should not buy a pair of barefoot shoes and the expect to go and play TT.
He clearly states that barefoot shoes should be regarded as a tool to strengthen the complete foot and so prevent pains and accidents.
I assume the ultimate goal would be to actually be able to do everything barefoot
 
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If i understand the arguments in Jslick89's post # 24 he clearly says that one should not buy a pair of barefoot shoes and the expect to go and play TT.
He clearly states that barefoot shoes should be regarded as a tool to strengthen the complete foot and so prevent pains and accidents.
I assume the ultimate goal would be to actually be able to do everything barefoot
I’m talking about wearing bear foot shoes for tt in general, that’s why I didn’t quote any post in that reply. I’m just saying in a sport where you can’t guarantee you can always land in the optimal way, then wearing a pair of shoes that require you to land in that way to avoid injuries is just a bad idea. No matter how much training you have, there’ll always be accidents, and the probability of accidentally landing on your heels is higher when you’re playing a competitive sport and move around a lot. So let’s say you’re trying to save a really wide forehand, you cross step and dive, but ah-oh you jumped a bit too wide and landed on your heel, if you wore a normal pair of tt shoes, it might hurt for a few seconds, but if you were wearing a pair of barefoot shoes, you might need to just go home and rest, or worse go to the doctor’s.
 
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I have 2 pairs of Vibrams and I can attest to it's effectiveness in terms of training up the foot muscles. I also use them in the gym and when I'm out running etc. The training is really good for TT especially in terms of the proper usage of the feet and the ability to never land on the heels (extremely good habit for TT)

But when I play TT I still wear TT shoes for extra cushioning etc... because of the risks of landing in a bad way when going after unexpected balls like what DukeGaGa mentioned.
 
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I have 2 pairs of Vibrams and I can attest to it's effectiveness in terms of training up the foot muscles. I also use them in the gym and when I'm out running etc. The training is really good for TT especially in terms of the proper usage of the feet and the ability to never land on the heels (extremely good habit for TT)

But when I play TT I still wear TT shoes for extra cushioning etc... because of the risks of landing in a bad way when going after unexpected balls like what DukeGaGa mentioned.
I’m actually thinking about buying a pair of barefoot shoes myself. I think they’ll help me train my footwork like you said, though I do spend most of I my time at home without shoes on… so I haven’t really decided just yet. Working from home is just such a good idea lol
 
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someone used the Leguano barefoot shoes?
I have.
The ground feel is good, but can’t recommend them to you. They were rather slippery and did not have too much lateral support which also makes you slip inside of them -> this leads to slower side steps and switches of direction.

I can give you some recommendations if you want to, though. I’ve tried out 2 more brands in order to find my perfect barefoot shoe for tt.
 
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I use zero drop shoes from altra with a wide toebox in daily walking. I have also been running in a brand called Newton that is made to train people to land more on the forefoot while running. When I started playing table tennis, I used a minimalist running shoe that weighs 170 grams, the original takumi zen, but this one had 6 millimeter drop. Since I am older, my feet has widened naturally over the years, so I ended up ordering Mizuno Wave Drive 8. This shoe works fine, but its a bit warm to my liking.

I dont see the point in this claim that you need lateral support. If you have strong feet, lets say you jog or hike on trails often, you should be able to handle sideways movements, right? My knees are not so happy with the sideways movements though, especially the repeated twist of the hip at the left leg when doing a big swing with my right forehand while simultaneously landing my body weight on that leg.

Would definately be interested in trying Vivo PRIMUS LITE III, but they are really expensive. I saw they had one color scheme that had non-colored rubber underneath.

PS! Saw one of the players in the new PingPod vs. TableTennisDaily video that looked to be wearking barefoot shoes. Maybe someone can identify which ones she was using? I've also seen table tennis player Katharina Michajlova use barefoot shoes in some of her videos on youtube.
 
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I've been exclusively using minimal shoes from vivo for more than 10 years now, and when i started playing table tennis of course i continued to use them. For TT i used the primus Lite model.

I started playing TT around 4 years ago, and for the first year as a beginner i had no problems at all with the shoes. I was also only playing 2 times per week.

But once i improved, got better footwork and started playing several times a week, the minimal shoes were no longer feasible. The only reason being durability. The soles are so thin, that they wear out too quickly - the last 2 pairs i had both developed holes on the frontfoot after only 3 months of use each.

I cannot justify buying new shoes every 3 months, so I am now using TT specific shoes. I have had good experience with the mizuno kaiserburg model which is wide with minimal cushioning, and the asics FF attack/dominate which is a bit narrower but better ventilated.

The TT specific shoes last around 1 year for me before they are worn out, and they also provide better grip on the floor.

For everyday activities and running, i continue to use minimal vivo barefoot shoes.
 
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If i understand the arguments in Jslick89's post # 24 he clearly says that one should not buy a pair of barefoot shoes and the expect to go and play TT.
He clearly states that barefoot shoes should be regarded as a tool to strengthen the complete foot and so prevent pains and accidents.
I assume the ultimate goal would be to actually be able to do everything barefoot
This is indeed the goal. When you have strong feet, ankles and knees, you don't need "support" from your shoes. Your own body provides that support from its own strength.

And you are correct, you cannot pick up a pair of barefoot shoes and go play table tennis. It took me nearly a year before I knew my body was conditioned enough to do so.
I have 2 pairs of Vibrams and I can attest to it's effectiveness in terms of training up the foot muscles. I also use them in the gym and when I'm out running etc. The training is really good for TT especially in terms of the proper usage of the feet and the ability to never land on the heels (extremely good habit for TT)

But when I play TT I still wear TT shoes for extra cushioning etc... because of the risks of landing in a bad way when going after unexpected balls like what DukeGaGa mentioned.
I worried about landing in a bad way too. That is why i opted for the vivo FG sole. These are 4mm soles with a 6mm lug, so a total of 10mm of cushion. The sole of the shoe might also add another 2mm. I have found that this is plenty of cushion for playing TT. One of the locations I play at is concrete floor. I have no issues at all.

I definitely would not consider playing TT in my primus lite III, because they only have a 4mm sole. However, I do use primus lite III at the gym, where i do practice code drills, ladder agility drills, and a lot of other side to side movements with no issues. I use these shoes because I know i can fully control my movements with these drills. Different than TT where I might be required to do more unexpected movements, as you mentioned.
I’m talking about wearing bear foot shoes for tt in general, that’s why I didn’t quote any post in that reply. I’m just saying in a sport where you can’t guarantee you can always land in the optimal way, then wearing a pair of shoes that require you to land in that way to avoid injuries is just a bad idea. No matter how much training you have, there’ll always be accidents, and the probability of accidentally landing on your heels is higher when you’re playing a competitive sport and move around a lot. So let’s say you’re trying to save a really wide forehand, you cross step and dive, but ah-oh you jumped a bit too wide and landed on your heel, if you wore a normal pair of tt shoes, it might hurt for a few seconds, but if you were wearing a pair of barefoot shoes, you might need to just go home and rest, or worse go to the doctor’s.
Respectfully, I think you might be missing the point of barefoot shoes a little bit. Barefoot shoes don't *required* you to land in a certain way. They train your body to land in the correct way. Landing on your heels one time (or even multiple times) in barefoot shoes most likely will *not* injure you. By wearing barefoot shoes, you have opened up a neuron pathway from the foot to your brain that has otherwise been locked away by cushioned shoes. This pathway allows you to make lighting fast adjustments. Like I mentioned previously, I have "rolled" my ankle in barefoot shoes but it resulted in no injury. I attribute this to two main reasons; the inherent strength of my feet & ankles, and my body's instinctual ability to make the lighting fast correction.

If I recall the timing correctly, ive been playing TT in barefoot shoes (the VIVO FG sole models) for at least 7 months now. I have done all sorts of movements. gone after the most wildly astray balls. Played against opponents who can place the ball so well that I am moving laterally side to side in extremely unexpected ways, and I have had not a single injury to my feet, heels, or legs.

I have played 13 matches in one day on rubberized floor in barefoot shoes. I was tired at the end of the day, including my feet, but my feet were more tired than any other part of my body.

Anyways, I am not a doctor. Nor am I an expert on health, although I do consider myself knowledgeable, and more importantly, able to seek out the opinions and advice of experts. I am only giving my personal testimony from my experience with barefoot shoes. I really do believe that the extra 6mm lugs on the FG model soles from VIVO are more than enough to play this sport in.

Are barefoot shoes for TT right for everyone? Most likely not. There are some extra factors that I do believe aide me in this endeavor. One being that I am in a healthy body weight range (I am 5'7" 158lbs floating around 13% Body fat). Two, I have played all sorts of sports my whole life. Before TT, i was a soccer player for 15 years, so I am familiar with quick feet and agility). I also spend a lot of time in the gym strengthening my knees and my core muscles. I believe a strong core is a key foundation overall athleticism, and strong knees are key to being able to preform the vigorous techniques required of this sport.
I’m actually thinking about buying a pair of barefoot shoes myself. I think they’ll help me train my footwork like you said, though I do spend most of I my time at home without shoes on… so I haven’t really decided just yet. Working from home is just such a good idea lol
You should! I recommend the primus train FG to start off (although my first pair of barefoot shoes were actually the primus lite IIIs). I recommend the FG because it's an easier transition due to the additional 6mm lug. You can also check out revivo for used VIVOs. I've bought 3 pairs of used vivos ("great" condition) and they looked practically brand new. They put on a new sole for these shoes before they post them on the website to sell. Definitely a cost effective way to get into the lifestyle.
 
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I use zero drop shoes from altra with a wide toebox in daily walking. I have also been running in a brand called Newton that is made to train people to land more on the forefoot while running. When I started playing table tennis, I used a minimalist running shoe that weighs 170 grams, the original takumi zen, but this one had 6 millimeter drop. Since I am older, my feet has widened naturally over the years, so I ended up ordering Mizuno Wave Drive 8. This shoe works fine, but it’s a bit warm to my liking.

I dont see the point in this claim that you need lateral support. If you have strong feet, lets say you jog or hike on trails often, you should be able to handle sideways movements, right? My knees are not so happy with the sideways movements though, especially the repeated twist of the hip at the left leg when doing a big swing with my right forehand while simultaneously landing my body weight on that leg.

Would definately be interested in trying Vivo PRIMUS LITE III, but they are really expensive. I saw they had one color scheme that had non-colored rubber underneath.

PS! Saw one of the players in the new PingPod vs. TableTennisDaily video that looked to be wearking barefoot shoes. Maybe someone can identify which ones she was using? I've also seen table tennis player Katharina Michajlova use barefoot shoes in some of her videos on youtube.
Hey @z0uLess,

I should have rather said lateral stability instead of lateral support. As you state correctly, your feet get strong enough, so you don’t need the support anymore. I had worn barefoot shoes only in my everyday life for 3 months before going barefoot in tt. My problem with Leguanos and especially then with Vibrams was that on long, fast sidesteps or even side jumps to reach for balls far out to the sides, I would slip over the insole of the shoe onto the side of them. Then, I couldn’t move back quickly enough.

I now wear Xeroshoes 360 which don’t have as much ground feel as the Vibrams, but they’re zero drop, they have a thin sole, wide toe box, and they’re very stable on these sidestep movements. I’ve been using them for 5 months now, and I must say that they’re great.
And this should be interesting to @tomahawk11 : I’ve trained 3x per week, 2-3 hours per session for the last 5 months + strength workouts in the gym and the soles hold up very well. I’d say that they should last another year. The upper has worn out a little more but that doesn’t bother me. I got them for around 100€ which is an okay price for me.

@z0uLess
It looks like Michajlova is wearing Leguano Active in her videos. The soles got this typical “pimple-like” look.

I had the chance to try my friend’s Primus Lite III for 10-15 minutes and they have great ground feel, decent grip (better than the Leguanos in my opinion) and a wide toe box. They also have more lateral stability than the other shoes I’ve mentioned above but not as much as the Xeros. They should be good enough for tt, though.
As I wasn’t able to try them out longer, I can’t talk about their durability, though.
 
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This is indeed the goal. When you have strong feet, ankles and knees, you don't need "support" from your shoes. Your own body provides that support from its own strength.

And you are correct, you cannot pick up a pair of barefoot shoes and go play table tennis. It took me nearly a year before I knew my body was conditioned enough to do so.

I worried about landing in a bad way too. That is why i opted for the vivo FG sole. These are 4mm soles with a 6mm lug, so a total of 10mm of cushion. The sole of the shoe might also add another 2mm. I have found that this is plenty of cushion for playing TT. One of the locations I play at is concrete floor. I have no issues at all.

I definitely would not consider playing TT in my primus lite III, because they only have a 4mm sole. However, I do use primus lite III at the gym, where i do practice code drills, ladder agility drills, and a lot of other side to side movements with no issues. I use these shoes because I know i can fully control my movements with these drills. Different than TT where I might be required to do more unexpected movements, as you mentioned.

Respectfully, I think you might be missing the point of barefoot shoes a little bit. Barefoot shoes don't *required* you to land in a certain way. They train your body to land in the correct way. Landing on your heels one time (or even multiple times) in barefoot shoes most likely will *not* injure you. By wearing barefoot shoes, you have opened up a neuron pathway from the foot to your brain that has otherwise been locked away by cushioned shoes. This pathway allows you to make lighting fast adjustments. Like I mentioned previously, I have "rolled" my ankle in barefoot shoes but it resulted in no injury. I attribute this to two main reasons; the inherent strength of my feet & ankles, and my body's instinctual ability to make the lighting fast correction.

If I recall the timing correctly, ive been playing TT in barefoot shoes (the VIVO FG sole models) for at least 7 months now. I have done all sorts of movements. gone after the most wildly astray balls. Played against opponents who can place the ball so well that I am moving laterally side to side in extremely unexpected ways, and I have had not a single injury to my feet, heels, or legs.

I have played 13 matches in one day on rubberized floor in barefoot shoes. I was tired at the end of the day, including my feet, but my feet were more tired than any other part of my body.

Anyways, I am not a doctor. Nor am I an expert on health, although I do consider myself knowledgeable, and more importantly, able to seek out the opinions and advice of experts. I am only giving my personal testimony from my experience with barefoot shoes. I really do believe that the extra 6mm lugs on the FG model soles from VIVO are more than enough to play this sport in.

Are barefoot shoes for TT right for everyone? Most likely not. There are some extra factors that I do believe aide me in this endeavor. One being that I am in a healthy body weight range (I am 5'7" 158lbs floating around 13% Body fat). Two, I have played all sorts of sports my whole life. Before TT, i was a soccer player for 15 years, so I am familiar with quick feet and agility). I also spend a lot of time in the gym strengthening my knees and my core muscles. I believe a strong core is a key foundation overall athleticism, and strong knees are key to being able to preform the vigorous techniques required of this sport.

You should! I recommend the primus train FG to start off (although my first pair of barefoot shoes were actually the primus lite IIIs). I recommend the FG because it's an easier transition due to the additional 6mm lug. You can also check out revivo for used VIVOs. I've bought 3 pairs of used vivos ("great" condition) and they looked practically brand new. They put on a new sole for these shoes before they post them on the website to sell. Definitely a cost effective way to get into the lifestyle.
the whole reason most shoes have extra cushioning in the heels is to prevent heel strike injuries, so what I’m saying is going barefoot in a sport where you have quite a high chance landing on your heels, is generally a bad idea, because that raises the possibility of injuries and the possibility of said injury being worse than it should be. It has nothing to do with how strong your feet is. Don’t forget why most bad injuries happen to professionals.
 
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Slightly old thread, but this piqued my interest so here's my couple of cents:

1. barefoot shoes for *anything* will take serious time getting used to. I can't and won't recommend going straight to barefoot shoes for any activity, or even for daily use.
2. I have been wearing barefoot/minimalist shoes for years and have been running in them as well.

With this context:
I have been doing a training session on Vapor Glove 3's, which is probably my all-time favourite fitting shoe. It fits *my feet* very well. It is also *very* minimal, only my Vibram FiveFingers are less shoe.
The training session was on a PU/plastic floor which is on the softer and more forgiving side.
This lead to the shoes working very well. I didn't notice my shoes at all and I could be very light on my feet.

I will probably keep using these for a little while, but eventually invest in new shoes. When I do, I will seriously consider an updated pair of Vapor Gloves.

That being said, again, I do not recommend this type of shoe to anyone for any kind of intense or prolonged activity without a long, loooong adjustment period. We're talking 6+ months here.
 
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