Beating the plateau at low intermediate level

[Tyce]

Background: I played from 1997 to 2010, quit the sport and returned in 2024.
So I've seen the changes from 21 to 11, 38 to 40mm (celluloid), the fall of glue and the early rise of tensors.

I have always played in the lower regional leagues, and also always felt like I was capable of more. But when push comes to shove, I keep finding myself missing simple balls yet landing the difficult ones.
I am on my best rating ever, but I feel like more and more of a beginner making so many stupid misses and half-assed balls, being on the back foot, out of place, and just winning the points on a combination of grit, luck and outright serves. Simply put, I don't feel a solid base that will help me if I do manage to promote. It doesn't help that I've been structurally losing in training matches to those players that are on a rating and playing level where I feel I should be.

It still feels however, like the game I used to play doesn't exist anymore, it's physically impossible with today's balls, but I think I lost it already when I made my first switch to (light) tensors. I read something the other day about classic rubbers depending heavily on the flex of the blade, and the introduction of tensor rubber switching the focus to engaging the rubber. After I switched from using Tibhar Vari Spin and Donic Vario (back in the 2000s) to more dynamic rubbers, I just feel like I never made it click properly. (I never used speed glue myself)

Coming back to the current day, I still feel like none of the gear I've tried so far is making me feel comfortable. The transition from mainly using "blade whip" (I had a very flexy Appelgren Allplay) to using "rubber snap" (what the tensor feeling is to me) just outright kills the feeling of stability and confidence for me.
However, playing Tenergy 05, when I play completely loose, and commit to every single shot, the results are wonderful. That's very demanding though.

But using sticky rubbers just feels way too demanding to get the ball going reliably. I have a desk-job physique, and as much as I like these rubbers when I *can* deliver the shot, most of the time I can't.
Now, it's easy to just give up and go back to classic rubbers. And truthfully, I would probably make it work and never miss out on anything spin- or speedwise on my current play level. I encounter plenty of people using the likes of Sriver, Mark V, Vari Spin and Vario.
But I don't want to stay at my current play level.

I've tried a lot of rubbers, and to be honest I just don't think the problem is in any specific rubber, but in my adaptation of them. So before springing on yet another set of rubbers and making a gamble on what I want to try and adapt to next, I need to figure out what I'm missing in properly adapting to using dynamic rubber because at this point I'd much rather learn what to do to grow into my gear instead of changing something *again*.
I feel like most things I can do at home without a table just don't really have enough impact to train the feeling of engagement. Whereas when I was starting as a kid, bouncing the ball was a very simple method that allowed me to time my blade's whip, and it translated to table play very well. Now it just feels like I'm feathering the rubber when I keep up a ball. Unless I want to hit the ceiling every single time of course. If anything, that teaches me to hold back.

So what helped you to adapt to tensors? Or what would you do to teach someone to build up their feeling of reliability?

 

[jonol]

However, playing Tenergy 05, when I play completely loose, and commit to every single shot, the results are wonderful. That's very demanding though.

Out of curiosity - what blade were you using when you had this feeling?

Because if you feel like you played great with the Tenergy 05 but that it was too demanding, then a more forgiving rubber but with a faster blade might give you that sweet spot of effort-to-output ratio.

I would also agree with your self-assessment that there is no specific rubber that would be at fault, but different rubbers and blades also have different physical properties and therefore have a different output from the same input. Finding a combination that gives you enough quality when you commit to your shots, but also lets you play at a more natural pace during rallies will probably look slightly (or wildly) different from one person to another.

 

[Tyce]

Out of curiosity - what blade were you using when you had this feeling?

Because if you feel like you played great with the Tenergy 05 but that it was too demanding, then a more forgiving rubber but with a faster blade might give you that sweet spot of effort-to-output ratio.

I've tested this on Korbel, Innerforce ALC (which I both still have) and a couple of others (Yinhe Pro 01, Timo Boll ZLC, I think I even tried it on my Appelgren lol).

The challenge with this is I felt I had to commit 100% to every shot, which is not something that comes natural to me.

 

[jonol]

Just based on what you've described in this thread, I would say that going for one of the carbon blades and a rubber with decent catapult on your main attacking side, then opting for a more controlled rubber that lets you play more relaxed and natural on your weaker wing.

That way you are giving yourself some extra base speed to your shots, and putting your effort towards your stronger wing, conserving energy on the other wing and using it for more control and placement.

 

[victormanriquey]

@Tyce , interesting story thanks for sharing! We still have that meeting together coming up soon no? I'm more than happy to check what's going on and help you. My gut feeling says technique is going yo have more impact here than gear, specially to help you play relax and loose, which is the main problem all our amateurs always have. I have seen that often, this comes because they lead their whole selfs with the arm, which causes all kinds of issues, and even though they think they don't, they still do

You can also send me a video and I can check, np!

Lastly, about gear, I think there can be a middle way here, T05 and the likes are very bouncy so its hard to control them on half-commitment shots. Tacky rubbers demand condition, they are not easy to play with. But modern hybrids have plenty of good alternatives here. And for blades, 7 ply or soft carbon can be a good middle ground as well.

 

[jonol]

Lastly, about gear, I think there can be a middle way here, T05 and the likes are very bouncy so its hard to control them on half-commitment shots. Tacky rubbers demand condition, they are not easy to play with. But modern hybrids have plenty of good alternatives here. And for blades, 7 ply or soft carbon can be a good middle ground as well.

Yep, that was my conclusion too. Somewhere in the middle-ground to give some base speed and quality, but not so demanding a rubber that requires commitment on every shot.

 

[jammmail]

Background: I played from 1997 to 2010, quit the sport and returned in 2024.
So I've seen the changes from 21 to 11, 38 to 40mm (celluloid), the fall of glue and the early rise of tensors.

I have always played in the lower regional leagues, and also always felt like I was capable of more. But when push comes to shove, I keep finding myself missing simple balls yet landing the difficult ones.
I am on my best rating ever, but I feel like more and more of a beginner making so many stupid misses and half-assed balls, being on the back foot, out of place, and just winning the points on a combination of grit, luck and outright serves. Simply put, I don't feel a solid base that will help me if I do manage to promote. It doesn't help that I've been structurally losing in training matches to those players that are on a rating and playing level where I feel I should be.

It still feels however, like the game I used to play doesn't exist anymore, it's physically impossible with today's balls, but I think I lost it already when I made my first switch to (light) tensors. I read something the other day about classic rubbers depending heavily on the flex of the blade, and the introduction of tensor rubber switching the focus to engaging the rubber. After I switched from using Tibhar Vari Spin and Donic Vario (back in the 2000s) to more dynamic rubbers, I just feel like I never made it click properly. (I never used speed glue myself)

Coming back to the current day, I still feel like none of the gear I've tried so far is making me feel comfortable. The transition from mainly using "blade whip" (I had a very flexy Appelgren Allplay) to using "rubber snap" (what the tensor feeling is to me) just outright kills the feeling of stability and confidence for me.
However, playing Tenergy 05, when I play completely loose, and commit to every single shot, the results are wonderful. That's very demanding though.

But using sticky rubbers just feels way too demanding to get the ball going reliably. I have a desk-job physique, and as much as I like these rubbers when I *can* deliver the shot, most of the time I can't.
Now, it's easy to just give up and go back to classic rubbers. And truthfully, I would probably make it work and never miss out on anything spin- or speedwise on my current play level. I encounter plenty of people using the likes of Sriver, Mark V, Vari Spin and Vario.
But I don't want to stay at my current play level.

I've tried a lot of rubbers, and to be honest I just don't think the problem is in any specific rubber, but in my adaptation of them. So before springing on yet another set of rubbers and making a gamble on what I want to try and adapt to next, I need to figure out what I'm missing in properly adapting to using dynamic rubber because at this point I'd much rather learn what to do to grow into my gear instead of changing something *again*.
I feel like most things I can do at home without a table just don't really have enough impact to train the feeling of engagement. Whereas when I was starting as a kid, bouncing the ball was a very simple method that allowed me to time my blade's whip, and it translated to table play very well. Now it just feels like I'm feathering the rubber when I keep up a ball. Unless I want to hit the ceiling every single time of course. If anything, that teaches me to hold back.

So what helped you to adapt to tensors? Or what would you do to teach someone to build up their feeling of reliability?

I feel you and can see many similarities with your story. I don't know any answers either - but am intrested in seeing the replies.
Ive also downgraded my equipment significantly. I think fundamentally I personally don't read play quick enough, and unfortunately with the speed of the game now you can't make that time up. I consistently lose against unusual styles and technique players. But hold my own better against more orthodox ones. I have had the biggest wins this season against higher ranked players - but some real stinkers of matches - so the peaks and troughs are much bigger.
I think with the downgrade in equipment I've gain some control somewhat - but also rely more on blocking and can fall into the trap of being too passive. I dont think i have the consistency, energy and movement to be 100% attacking for full matches. But dont have the touch/read of play to play more patiently.

 

[Tyce]

I feel you and can see many similarities with your story. I don't know any answers either - but am intrested in seeing the replies.
Ive also downgraded my equipment significantly. I think fundamentally I personally don't read play quick enough, and unfortunately with the speed of the game now you can't make that time up. I consistently lose against unusual styles and technique players. But hold my own better against more orthodox ones. I have had the biggest wins this season against higher ranked players - but some real stinkers of matches - so the peaks and troughs are much bigger.
I think with the downgrade in equipment I've gain some control somewhat - but also rely more on blocking and can fall into the trap of being too passive. I dont think i have the consistency, energy and movement to be 100% attacking for full matches. But dont have the touch/read of play to play more patiently.

So is the Timo Boll Spirit / Nuzn / Rasanter setup a downgrade? Or is that what you used before that

I have been ogling a downgrade to Primorac wood, but to be honest the Innerforce ALC is a sensible enough option and I already have two of them. So unless I encounter "THE blade" I won't be changing blades soon.

 

[victormanriquey]

@Tyce innerforce ALC is not a slow blade, it's quite fast actually Primorac is like the fiat panda compared to innerforce, you need the inbetween.

By the way, around technique, you might find this interesting @Tyce and @jammmail : https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...o-to-keep-your-hand-relaxed.39141/post-569240

I just checked the video of another player and technically, if you lead with the arm all your movements, it's much harder to achieve proper stability and consistency in TT, which later on brings the confidence and power in the shot.

 

[Tyce]

@Tyce innerforce ALC is not a slow blade, it's quite fast actually Primorac is like the fiat panda compared to innerforce, you need the inbetween.

Yeah I have a Korbel, which is actually the blade where I started to realize how a less flexible blade means I have to start playing differently. Its 5.9-6.0mm is so much different from the 5.2mm on my Appelgren. Primorac is kind of in between those two, though.
I still have a couple of different blades even though I've gotten rid of quite a few recently. I'll bring *everything* when we meet

By the way, around technique, you might find this interesting @Tyce and @jammmail : https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...o-to-keep-your-hand-relaxed.39141/post-569240

I just checked the video of another player and technically, if you lead with the arm all your movements, it's much harder to achieve proper stability and consistency in TT, which later on brings the confidence and power in the shot.

 

[jammmail]

So is the Timo Boll Spirit / Nuzn / Rasanter setup a downgrade? Or is that what you used before that

I have been ogling a downgrade to Primorac wood, but to be honest the Innerforce ALC is a sensible enough option and I already have two of them. So unless I encounter "THE blade" I won't be changing blades soon.

Thats what i was using before (all wood blade atm) - but the rubbers were a downgrade on that as a first step yes.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I started with the likes of MXP and Donic M1, super duper boing-boing rubber. Today Zyre03 is my BFF because same-same flavour.

Pick a lane buddy and level
up from there.

Just like playing D&D; magic user or fighter? Melee or Range? Pick a class and go from there.

 

[Tyce]

Also @victormanriquey yes, Innerforce has a lot of power reserves, but the slow touch is slow enough. I think most of my issues are in the mid power range. Perhaps having a blade that speeds up in that range isn't the most optimal solution

@Gozo Calderano I am allround, baby! Jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[victormanriquey]

Also @victormanriquey yes, Innerforce has a lot of power reserves, but the slow touch is slow enough. I think most of my issues are in the mid power range. Perhaps having a blade that speeds up in that range isn't the most optimal solution

@Gozo Calderano I am allround, baby! Jack of all trades, master of none.

@Gozo Calderano is the one and only professional amateur, he has mastered the art of amateurs, and thus has achieved the class of dps-healer-tank all in one. A bit like his zyre rubber really.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

zyre03 is arcane archer class. Causes the most dps from distance. Sucks at melee though ( short game )

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Also @victormanriquey yes, Innerforce has a lot of power reserves, but the slow touch is slow enough. I think most of my issues are in the mid power range. Perhaps having a blade that speeds up in that range isn't the most optimal solution

@Gozo Calderano I am allround, baby! Jack of all trades, master of none.

if allround is your game, G1 is the name! What are you waiting for?

 

[Tyce]

if allround is your game, G1 is the name! What are you waiting for?

Already have it

When everything falls into place, my stance is good, my head is good, the combination of G-1 and Innerforce ALC is absolutely lovely. But when one domino falls, everything goes to sh*t.

 

[jonol]

Playing the G1 myself, I absolutely love the rubber but I think its design is definitely catered to aggressive playstyle. I liked the C1 on my backhand but quickly found that it did not have the ceiling I was after and the softer sponge seemed to wear out quicker than my G1 (I am not gentle with my backhand rubbers).

From what you're describing, you might enjoy playing with something like R45? To me the R45 is like a more lively and modern version of Rakza 7, with a nice amount of extra bounciness but still very controlled. Vega X is also very nice in my experience, again more like a modern update to Rakza 7, with a bit of an extra ability to hit winners due to the harder sponge.

 

[belllfador]

Usually, easy rubber for me is easy rubber for my opponent. I will put Mark V, Musa, Marder 2 and 729 super soft in this category. Too sticky (TDE) and springy (T05, Vega Europe) are beyond my skills. But on a thinner sponge or hardness above 50 degrees, some tensors I can handle, on ALL speed blades. That is my case. I see people with Vis and T80/D05 that can do impossibly slow pushes and crazy fast flicks, and they don't look to put in effort. So, in theory, the gear is not so critical.

My EJ recommendation would be to try Xiom J&H Z52.5 on Off- blade. It is a hybrid minus the sticky surface, but the grip is very good. The short game is manageable and top speed can put your opponent in disbelief. It is the easiest hi-end rubber that I know.

 

[NDH]

I know this is a boring answer..... Coaching. Do you have access to it?

I know some adults who have had coaching recently, and they've improved a lot (from already being an OK standard).

I find people often try and look for the "perfect" set up - Not too fast, not too slow etc etc.

And in reality.... Coaching would be the best thing, because if you are constantly worrying about the small differences in equipment, it's the technique that needs the focus, not the set up.

And yes, I know that is a super boring answer..... But you'd benefit the most if you could find a coach!