Butterfly Zyre 03

[igorponger]

ABNORMALLY THICK RUBBERS GOT REJECTED.

A time ago, ITTF invited some mastery players to enter a testing session with nonstandard Tenergy rubbers having extraordinary thick sponges 2.5 / 3 /3.5/ 4 mm. with the idea of prospective change of the actual thickness limits 4 mm to a greater allowance.
You can look up the full test reports from ITTF AGM archive documents. The playrs general opinion was explicitly against too thick sponge over 2.5 mm.

 

[tzifos]

So 09C is tackier than Zyre03?

Should be; as Zy03 is not tacky at all!

 

[sebi]

ABNORMALLY THICK RUBBERS GOT REJECTED.

A time ago, ITTF invited some mastery players to enter a testing session with nonstandard Tenergy rubbers having extraordinary thick sponges 2.5 / 3 /3.5/ 4 mm. with the idea of prospective change of the actual thickness limits 4 mm to a greater allowance.
You can look up the full test reports from ITTF AGM archive documents. The playrs general opinion was explicitly against too thick sponge over 2.5 mm.

When was this? A lot changed, ball changed, technique changed, technology changed. I also think a 2.7 mm tenergy would be very very bouncy and not controllable. The Z03 Sponge is a lot harder.

 

[IB66]

When was this? A lot changed, ball changed, technique changed, technology changed. I also think a 2.7 mm tenergy would be very very bouncy and not controllable. The Z03 Sponge is a lot harder.

Thats what the players thought, from what Igor wrote the general consensus was thicker sponges were not to their liking. ITTF were experimenting with thicker sponges, perhaps manufacturers had approached them to allow an overall thicker topsheet/sponge thickness?
with BTY Zyre the pimple length / rubber thickness has been decreased to allow a thicker sponge to be used and remain legal. BTY seem to think this is the way forward.
If manufacturers experiments are able to produce new Gen top sheets with thicker sponges that out perform their current rubbers (which may already be the case). They may try to get the ruling on top sheet/sponge thickness changed.
It may well be that in the future ITTF allow an overall increase in the thickness of rubbers.
You have to realise that the ITTF are constantly looking at many of the constituent parts of TT, tables, the finish of the table, consistency of bounce, balls etc etc

 

[joshmak10]

I have a friend going to Japan this Christmas who’s going to a famous table tennis store there (forgot the name but it’s in Tokyo area and they have a table to test products before you buy). He claims they sell Zyre 03 for only around 96 CAD. That’s so much less than BTY americas (170 CAD) and less than Prott who are alr out of stock (122 CAD). I’m tempted to ask him to buy one for me to try out. We shall see what happens. I would put it on my WCQ blade once my H8-20 provincial wears out.

 

[Grumms]

On French forums, Zyre already changed drastically the level of some players' strokes. That's hilarious, marketing magic always works.

 

[Tyce]

Drastic changes can be bad, too

 

[NextLevel]

On French forums, Zyre already changed drastically the level of some players' strokes. That's hilarious, marketing magic always works.

Tenergy did this for me so I wouldn't be so presumptuous. Obviously other issues showed up but my loop quality with Tenergy 05 was higher than my loop quality with other rubbers. Spinnier rubbers can make your loops better and your pushes better with respect to spin, it doesn't mean that is the only thing that matters,

 

[Grumms]

Tenergy did this for me so I wouldn't be so presumptuous. Obviously other issues showed up but my loop quality with Tenergy 05 was higher than my loop quality with other rubbers. Spinnier rubbers can make your loops better and your pushes better with respect to spin, it doesn't mean that is the only thing that matters,

To what extend ? Have you measured anything ?

 

[NextLevel]

When was this? A lot changed, ball changed, technique changed, technology changed. I also think a 2.7 mm tenergy would be very very bouncy and not controllable. The Z03 Sponge is a lot harder.

And the topsheet a lot thinner - the thinner topsheet part is very important. There was a rubber like this back in the day called Stiga Innova.

 

[NextLevel]

To what extend ? Have you measured anything ?

It's a great question. This was over 10 years ago so it is partly off memory, but when your coach tells you that your loops have more spin with Tenergy 05 and more people are missing your pushes and more people are blocking your opening loops off the table, it is an informal form of measurement. Especially in a short window of time where one's technique didn't radically change unless the rubber forced the change somehow. That said, I was struggling to block other people's loops as well as it wasn't all gravy.

There is a reason why pros switch rubbers or use one rubber over another other than sponsorship, it is because they think the rubber all things considered gives them the best effect for their game. But I guess I need to buy and iphone and get spinsight so I can answer your question with hard data...

 

[IB66]

I have a friend going to Japan this Christmas who’s going to a famous table tennis store there (forgot the name but it’s in Tokyo area and they have a table to test products before you buy). He claims they sell Zyre 03 for only around 96 CAD. That’s so much less than BTY americas (170 CAD) and less than Prott who are alr out of stock (122 CAD). I’m tempted to ask him to buy one for me to try out. We shall see what happens. I would put it on my WCQ blade once my H8-20 provincial wears out.

My EJing has kicked in!! I have a sheet arriving tomorrow!!

 

[IB66]

And the topsheet a lot thinner - the thinner topsheet part is very important. There was a rubber like this back in the day called Stiga Innova.

Yep, thinner top sheets are also present in the likes of R53,:helps give a softer feeling as well.

 

[Grumms]

It's a great question. This was over 10 years ago so it is partly off memory, but when your coach tells you that your loops have more spin with Tenergy 05 and more people are missing your pushes and more people are blocking your opening loops off the table, it is an informal form of measurement. Especially in a short window of time where one's technique didn't radically change unless the rubber forced the change somehow. That said, I was struggling to block other people's loops as well as it wasn't all gravy.

There is a reason why pros switch rubbers or use one rubber over another other than sponsorship, it is because they think the rubber all things considered gives them the best effect for their game. But I guess I need to buy and iphone and get spinsight so I can answer your question with hard data...

That's why I resent big brands a lot. There are no formal data to assert their claims. It would be very easy to do, with a mere robot, same gesture, comparing the spin, arc and speed of a ball. That would remove any doubt from anyone. Right now, we have Butterfly claiming that D09c spins 10 times (!!!) more than Tackfire. That's just impossible. It means that even Ma Long could not give 30 RPS to a ball with a Tackfire... Ridiculous.

However, I don't doubt there are improvment over time, but only very slight, or else it would drastically revolutionize the sport, like Luxilon did to tennis in 1997. So if a pro gets only a slight improvment over a rubber change, I don't see how hobby players could see their game improved a lot instantly just changing a rubber.

 

[NextLevel]

That's why I resent big brands a lot. There are no formal data to assert their claims. It would be very easy to do, with a mere robot, same gesture, comparing the spin, arc and speed of a ball. That would remove any doubt from anyone. Right now, we have Butterfly claiming that D09c spins 10 times (!!!) more than Tackfire. That's just impossible. It means that even Ma Long could not give 30 RPS to a ball with a Tackfire... Ridiculous.

However, I don't doubt there are improvment over time, but only very slight, or else it would drastically revolutionize the sport, like Luxilon did to tennis in 1997. So if a pro gets only a slight improvment over a rubber change, I don't see how hobby players could see their game improved a lot instantly just changing a rubber.

Depends on what you mean by "improved a lot". The funny thing about your post is that more than anyone else, Butterfly, as annoying as their prices can be, has done the most out of any brand to provide data on how to compare their equipment. I still review their blade specification and rubber specification charts and even if they are not perfect, they are far better easier to understand than what most brands produce. And their tutorials on how the pip configurations of Tenergy rubbers impact the ball flight and stroke selection are still classic.

I gave an example of improved a lot - something became easier for me to do (impart spin) and something became harder (block). If the tradeoff is such that I am winning more points from spin than I am losing from block, then it has improved my game a bit. What that means in practical terms, the devil is in the details. Of course, it is easier for such things to improve your game at a lower level than at a higher level, but in the end, some of these improvements will go away as the opponents get used to what the new normal is. I suspect Zyre will take some time for opponents to read and adjust to but once they do, things will largely be normal again.

 

[RefereeNumber2]

...or else it would drastically revolutionize the sport, like Luxilon did to tennis in 1997.

That is pretty much what Tenergy was when it originally came out. We haven't seen anything quite so obviously transformative since then, but now it seems like Butterfly are betting on Zyre being the "Tenergy" for the plastic ball that Dignics wasn't quite.

I don't think we'll reach the point, like we did with Tenergy, where almost every pro is using Zyre...simply because the rubber landscape is more competitive now and the game has changed in other ways. But unlike ESN, I don't think we should just assume a new Butterfly innovation is mere empty marketing.

 

[Tyce]

That's why I resent big brands a lot. There are no formal data to assert their claims. It would be very easy to do, with a mere robot, same gesture, comparing the spin, arc and speed of a ball. That would remove any doubt from anyone. Right now, we have Butterfly claiming that D09c spins 10 times (!!!) more than Tackfire. That's just impossible. It means that even Ma Long could not give 30 RPS to a ball with a Tackfire... Ridiculous.

With a static test, firing a ball at a bat and measuring the resulting rpm, I can imagine these numbers are somehow true. But yeah there's zero mention of how this is tested or what the scale is supposed to represent.

However, I don't doubt there are improvment over time, but only very slight, or else it would drastically revolutionize the sport, like Luxilon did to tennis in 1997. So if a pro gets only a slight improvment over a rubber change, I don't see how hobby players could see their game improved a lot instantly just changing a rubber.

I still encounter people with Sriver, Vario, Vari Spin and the likes and the amount of spin and pressure they can produce is just far less. It's not uncommon to get a topspin launched at me but dumping the block into the net because it lacks speed and spin.
Now if we rewind to 38mm, those rubbers were much more capable of propelling that ball with power and danger, without speed glue.
Tenergy and tensor has been a game changer for those who didn't speedglue (which was luckily the majority of amateurs here) and I'm still surprised how easy it is to use nowadays.

 

[BobFL]

I don't want to sound rude but does this conclusion relate to the fact that you have a fast and stiff outer carbon blade? Z03 being so fast compared to D05 which is slow by comparision even to T05, maybe that's why you are saying that the D05 is more balanced, because it is indeed slower. FYI, i play with D05 on my Hugo Hal.

Your are not being rude by any means, on contrary.

My opinion is worth just as much as anyone else’s. We’re not here to reach a consensus. Just like in ancient Rome, this is a forum — only in a modern digital form — and we’re here to exchange impressions and opinions. It’s neither my intention nor my habit to convince anyone of anything.

I will post my full review in a few days. As always, FWIW.

 

[Liquid Sky]

... Right now, we have Butterfly claiming that D09c spins 10 times (!!!) more than Tackfire....

Where is the source to this?

 

[piligrim]

And the topsheet a lot thinner - the thinner topsheet part is very important. There was a rubber like this back in the day called Stiga Innova.

I remember something similar was on Airoc Astra ..