China National team did suffer badly over high air humidity.

[igorponger]

According to expert opinion it was the overly high inner air humidity over 60% that has upset China dreams of more gold medals at Astana Аsian Champs 2024.
Yes, you could see Chinese topspin shots missing the table too oftentimes. There is a thorough research by an American engineer to give us a strong evidence that a humid air condition will affect performance of tacky rubbers adversely.
Chinese sport managers seem overlooked the possible ill-effect of air humidity. Yes, not all rubbers would be affected; the tacky DHS products is the biggest concern as being prone to lose original friction even under RH 70%.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing, indeed.

 

[cybershapedragon]

As of today, Astana, Kazakhstan has similar Humidity and air pressure with Beijing. That's not the reason.

The ball and table might have some impact to the players' performance. But everyone are using the same table and ball.

 

[anone]

According to expert opinion it was the overly high inner air humidity over 60% that has upset China dreams of more gold medals at Astana Аsian Champs 2024.
Yes, you could see Chinese topspin shots missing the table too oftentimes. There is a thorough research by an American engineer to give us a strong evidence that a humid air condition will affect performance of tacky rubbers adversely.
Chinese sport managers seem overlooked the possible ill-effect of air humidity. Yes, not all rubbers would be affected; the tacky DHS products is the biggest concern as being prone to lose original friction even under RH 70%.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing, indeed.

View attachment 32602

Sounds like a skill issue to me, they should be playing in a dry well ventilated area instead

 

[Attitude]

As of today, Astana, Kazakhstan has similar Humidity and air pressure with Beijing. That's not the reason.

The ball and table might have some impact to the players' performance. But everyone are using the same table and ball.

This.
The biggest for China here was, that most players couldnt practice long enough with the balls and tables used. I mean they just came from a total different tournament.
Timo Boll said in an interview that he usually prepares for around 2 weeks with the setup used in another region or team (Bundesliga). Everything below has negative impact on his performance and he usually doesnt have the necessary confidence in that case.

So imo that had the bigger impact on the chinese performance.

Btw Cho Daesong lost right away too. Quite hard actually. Same issue here because he played the torurnament right before that one.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This.
The biggest for China here was, that most players couldnt practice long enough with the balls and tables used. I mean they just came from a total different tournament.
Timo Boll said in an interview that he usually prepares for around 2 weeks with the setup used in another region or team (Bundesliga). Everything below has negative impact on his performance and he usually doesnt have the necessary confidence in that case.

So imo that had the bigger impact on the chinese performance.

Btw Cho Daesong lost right away too. Quite hard actually. Same issue here because he played the torurnament right before that one.

all seamless balls is from the same patent owner and manufacturer.
Not to mention the 729 S40+ ball is used by the CNT B team for WTT youth events.
CNT is no stranger to said ball and table.

if any, these are Chinese brands, and stated owned company too.

In Euro leagues, it is common that players play on 2 different tables in the space of 2 days or 3 days with different balls. Players need to adapt without much time to adapt before match day.

End of the day, every player starts off the same and some players are gifted with resources to have more days to adapt and some don't. CNT generally have weeks if not months to adapt.
I guess CNT this time just had to face the reality of what 90% of the other players need to face. Adapt on the day.

I think fatigue played a bigger role than the ball issue

 

[Attitude]

all seamless balls is from the same patent owner and manufacturer.
Not to mention the 729 S40+ ball is used by the CNT B team for WTT youth events.
CNT is no stranger to said ball and table.

if any, these are Chinese brands, and stated owned company too.

In Euro leagues, it is common that players play on 2 different tables in the space of 2 days or 3 days with different balls. Players need to adapt without much time to adapt before match day.

End of the day, every player starts off the same and some players are gifted with resources to have more days to adapt and some don't. CNT generally have weeks if not months to adapt.
I guess CNT this time just had to face the reality of what 90% of the other players need to face. Adapt on the day.

I think fatigue played a bigger role than the ball issue

I agree with your last point but your statement about the euroleagues is wrong, at least for the highend leagues like the first and second Bundesliga.
For the amateur level that is correct but even worse because we have to play on tables that are 20years and older in several occassions. Impossible to prepare for and trashes your gameplay on an extreme level. I saw 2k. TTR player play on 1500 level with andro 3s and old Donic tables that had this rough surface.

The difference is not that big in highend leagues but still noticable even for me.
Ans sure they are kinda used to every table but they are not the same and the slight change needs adaptation and therefore time. If you dont have it, you cant play at peak level.

Still you are right, several players should be very exhausted from playing, training and traveling.
Just check Lin Shidong who is listed in every bigger event coming up^^

 

[Kopp]

 

[Doralikesmath]

Not sure if this is a factor, but indeed the Chinese tacky rubbers are more likely to be affected by high humidity compared to BTY/ESN rubbers. In my area, sometimes we get like 90%+ of relative humidity and doing FH loops is near impossible in that condition. The balls just slip on the rubber surface and go straight to the net, or even the ground on my side, lol.

 

[Kopp]

 

[pong99]

According to expert opinion it was the overly high inner air humidity over 60% that has upset China dreams of more gold medals at Astana Аsian Champs 2024.
Yes, you could see Chinese topspin shots missing the table too oftentimes. There is a thorough research by an American engineer to give us a strong evidence that a humid air condition will affect performance of tacky rubbers adversely.
Chinese sport managers seem overlooked the possible ill-effect of air humidity. Yes, not all rubbers would be affected; the tacky DHS products is the biggest concern as being prone to lose original friction even under RH 70%.

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing, indeed.

View attachment 32602

These graphs show NOTHING about humidity affecting H3 or any other tacky rubber. The four rubbers shown measured are 2 pips out, 1 anti, and Tenergy.

Maybe there was too much vodka in the air.

 

[Rinforzando]

Not sure if this is a factor, but indeed the Chinese tacky rubbers are more likely to be affected by high humidity compared to BTY/ESN rubbers. In my area, sometimes we get like 90%+ of relative humidity and doing FH loops is near impossible in that condition. The balls just slip on the rubber surface and go straight to the net, or even the ground on my side, lol.

I have the opposite reaction, with high humidity my tacky rubbers survive more than my ESN/BTY rubbers that became too imprevisible (sometimes it hits the net, sometimes the ground sometimes it flies in the sky...)

 

[Colestt]

As a guy that uses Chinese rubber, humidity changes the way my rubber performs a LOT.

 

[blahness]

View attachment 32603

Lmao... precisely! FFS given that I am not gonna practise anywhere near enough to support double inverted looping, i am gonna put a piece of anti on my BH and use them to terrorize ppl. It will be especially fun to troll the old grandpas who love their no toss illegal serves.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I agree with your last point but your statement about the euroleagues is wrong, at least for the highend leagues like the first and second Bundesliga.
For the amateur level that is correct but even worse because we have to play on tables that are 20years and older in several occassions. Impossible to prepare for and trashes your gameplay on an extreme level. I saw 2k. TTR player play on 1500 level with andro 3s and old Donic tables that had this rough surface.

The difference is not that big in highend leagues but still noticable even for me.
Ans sure they are kinda used to every table but they are not the same and the slight change needs adaptation and therefore time. If you dont have it, you cant play at peak level.

Still you are right, several players should be very exhausted from playing, training and traveling.
Just check Lin Shidong who is listed in every bigger event coming up^^

what part is wrong if I may ask?
this was given to me (last month already) by a bundesliga player

and I actually just went to check and there is one club (2 bundesliga) that plays 2 matches over 2 days,
day 1 is tibhar ball
day 2 is butterfly

1 bundesliga has a wed and sunday with andro ball and then donic ball.

And I do have the material list for the different clubs, some of them are the same, but depending on schedule, you could have 2 different ones very near to each other.

My player at Austria first bundesliga had a friday and sunday with different balls too.
so atleast 3 of the top 5 leagues in Europe has different balls in close proximately with each other

so, its no excuse and one needs to adapt, since its part of players life in Europe as far as I understand

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Not sure if this is a factor, but indeed the Chinese tacky rubbers are more likely to be affected by high humidity compared to BTY/ESN rubbers. In my area, sometimes we get like 90%+ of relative humidity and doing FH loops is near impossible in that condition. The balls just slip on the rubber surface and go straight to the net, or even the ground on my side, lol.

the hall has temperature control, including that of humidity control.
igor thinks they play in a hall with nether and rely on "outdoor humidity" to make judgement

next he will say the temperature was -2 the one day and freezing in the hall too

 

[Attitude]

what part is wrong if I may ask?

Ofcourse you can always ask

this was given to me (last month already) by a bundesliga player

and I actually just went to check and there is one club (2 bundesliga) that plays 2 matches over 2 days,
day 1 is tibhar ball
day 2 is butterfly

1 bundesliga has a wed and sunday with andro ball and then donic ball.

And I do have the material list for the different clubs, some of them are the same, but depending on schedule, you could have 2 different ones very near to each other.

My player at Austria first bundesliga had a friday and sunday with different balls too.
so atleast 3 of the top 5 leagues in Europe has different balls in close proximately with each other

so, its no excuse and one needs to adapt, since its part of players life in Europe as far as I understand

I just checked first and second league and no team has 2 matches in a week outside of their home ground.
So they can always at least one week ahead prepare for the upcoming match.

Btw balls are just one part. The difference in tables is nothing to ignore as well.

Yeah ofcourse it is no excuse. But it still might be a reason for an obvious difference in showing.

Especially the mentioned match of Cho Daesong showed pretty well for me, that he simply couldnt play at his usual level.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Ofcourse you can always ask

I just checked first and second league and no team has 2 matches in a week outside of their home ground.
So they can always at least one week ahead prepare for the upcoming match.

This is just one example of many I saw

Btw balls are just one part. The difference in tables is nothing to ignore as well.

of course,

Yeah ofcourse it is no excuse. But it still might be a reason for an obvious difference in showing.

yes, and it affects the majority,
however when talking vast preparation prior, CNT are minority
so maybe such preparation is good, and also bad

Especially the mentioned match of Cho Daesong showed pretty well for me, that he simply couldnt play at his usual level.

There are many reason
I was with the whole TPE team yesterday and had a good chat with a lot of them, as well as seeing how few of them are really injured and was busy getting treatment done and they need to fly off again for another wtt...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

here is one that required adapting every few days

 

[Attitude]

here is one that required adapting every few days

View attachment 32613

The Fortuna match shouldnt have happened like this and wasnt planned this was as you can see from the letters next to the time of the match. They changed homeground and date of the other match. Which is unforturnate but happens.

Funfact for the Düsseldorf matches: Grenzau plays with the same setups so it is not too bad in that case.

Btw i just found one of the the clips i mentioned in which Boll explains the struggle of getting used to other setups and that 2 hrs of warmup are not nearly enough for getting used to the differences.

SPONTENT - Timo über andere Bälle

Watch SPONTENT's clip titled "Timo über andere Bälle"

www.twitch.tv

Sadly enough it is in german. But it is short enough to give a more detailed translation if anyone wants.

Aside from that there is no need to talk about single matches in the bundesliga in itself. If you wanted to prove that Bolls statement is wrong you would have to check all his matches, and even then you would find situations as in the interview in which he still play although he didnt have enough time to prepare.

And that is actually my whole point. Playing on a different setup than you are used to, simply gives you a disadvantage if other are more prepared or have this setup as their homeground. Now we could argue what preparationtime would be enough.
On that note, do you know when the CNT and Taipei arrived compared to the other regions?

 

[h3llary]

Astana is the least humid city you can find. You have to go there to experience it first hand, it's super dry climate unlike in China.