Comeback rubber recommendations?

[Tyce]

Hi forum!​

This is my second post here, and I just joined up in order to try and get some information helping me returning to the game.
Most of all, I'm looking for a new set of rubbers. My old stuff has been in the closet for 10+ years and well, it shows.
Before, I've selected as a kid/adolescent would, either by pretty pictures and marketing talk, or by being overly ambitious and going for stuff that is beyond my skill level. (I'm pretty sure my game suffered a LOT from that in the last few seasons I played).

So first, let me tell you what I've been using:

Blades​

I still have the two blades I used the most. Together they cover a timespan of ~10 years of active play.

Donic Appelgren Allplay Senso V1
Actually the first custom blade I got, and I still like it. Unless something strange happens I'll be using this again (and again and again). It actually seems to still be a relevant blade as I can find it in stores, and reviews are generally good.

Donic Waldner Impuls 6.5​

This blade I got from a club mate because I felt like I was missing out in terms of speed (and he was getting rid of it). I've since read some really wildly varying reviews on the (build) quality of this blade, and the fact that it's almost impossible to find more information on these days also tells me it's not been a hit.

Rubbers​

As for rubbers, I've been through a couple but not a lot. I tend to keep them on for quite a while.

Tibhar Vari Spin ​

+ Decent control and spin
+ Good learning rubber
+ I like the feel of softer rubbers
- Misses power
- When it's used up there's just a bit of control left
I used this on FH as my first custom rubber, either on some random old frame or the Appelgren Senso. We're talking young teen years here. I might have also had it on BH but not so sure there.
The soft and grippy style is nice but compared to what today it's too timid. I do remember I was able to generate spinnier opening loops than the kids who were on Sriver. The harder Sriver didn't appeal to me back then and felt much less controllable.

Joola Samba (on Appelgren Allplay Senso V1)​

+ a bit more pep and power
+ that sound!
- I picked it too thick so control was an issue, got a little unpredictable
- the edges crumbled pretty fast
Used it on FH in a 2.0 or something. Liked the softness, feel and sound but it was not quite the rubber for me. Also not durable at all - I think I poked a hole in this one on the point of a table.

Donic Quattro Formula (on Waldner Impuls)​

+ Lots of topspin
+ Fast, consistent drives
+ Hard chops still work
- Slow pushes are highly unpredictable
- Loop throws too high
Potentially great FH rubber but the low gear is a mess for me. I can't play slow pushes with it. The high gear is awesome but I would make lots of unforced errors at least in combination with this blade.

I actually pulled this one off the Waldner Impuls and stuck it on the Allplay Senso for now. Keep in mind that this rubber is really OLLLLD, but it still works up to a degree. Here's a before/after comparison:

(OLLLD) Donic Quattro Formula (still on Waldner Impuls)​ Can hit the occasional topspin ball well Direct drives are still peppy and fast Pushes still highly unpredictable Serves are easy to get wrong

(OLLLD) Donic Quattro Formula (on Appelgren Allplay Senso V1)​ Top spin balls are a bit easier to control Not much of a difference in direct drives Pushes... minor improvement there Serves are a little easier in terms of placement

Donic Quattro A'conda (not sure about the soft or medium version) (on Waldner Impuls)​

+ backhand loops
+ control and placement fit my playing style
- I don't remember it being durable
Used it on BH, I believe in combination with the Quattro Formula.

Friendship 729 Super FX (blue sponge) (on Appelgren Allplay Senso V1)​

+ control is mega
+ chops, pushes are great
- it is so much slower than all the others that switching takes a lot of effort

Well, I simply bought the cheapest rubber I could find and actually knew to put on the Allplay to have a second racket to play around with. In hindsight a great choice as it made me become a little more familiar with a different style rubber than the soft squishy ones I always tend to use.
With this rubber, things are wildly different which has its ups and downs:
+ for a BH rubber with FH dominant play it's really, really easy to work with
+ makes for some nasty backspin pushes even after so much closet life
- there's not one bit of catapult action. You get out what you put in, so if you don't put anything in the ball will drop dead before the net.

Conclusion​

So that's it for the history - what of the future?
For now, I want a decent set of allround-ish rubbers that will last me going forward 2 years or so. I'll probably be doing 2-4 hours of play per week in that timespan.

For my FH, I want something that allows me to pull off some highly curvy topspin loops and fast drives, but also works on slow, close range play without getting too jumpy. I love to do the occasional heavy FH chop, that would be a plus but I reckon I can do that with most options.
1.8-2.0 is what I'm used to

As for BH, my criteria aren't too far off the FH, other than I would like to put emphasis more on control, and being able to loop and drive are more secondary attributes.
I'll probably go with a 1.8 here, maybe 1.5

I'm considering a few:

Friendship Super FX with yellow sponge​

Supposed to be a little more lively and not as hard, could be a nice cheap step-up. I'm actually considering putting this on the second blade anyway so I can get some play out of that one too.

Yasaka Mark V / Rakza 7​

Mark V should be well within my parameters for a FH rubber, bringing control, spin and with durability.
Rakza sounds like a good complementary BH to go with this

I would *love* to get more options, opinions and ideas.

 

[Lazer]

I know that the Appelgren is a pretty slow blade so if You when you were playing were at a decent level go for Rakza 7. I think Mark V on that blade is for beginners today. It’s not a bad bad rubber You can get good spin with it but it is very slow. I don’t know the Waldner blade but my guess is it’s a little faster.

Rakza 7 is a pretty good middle of the road rubber. It does most things pretty good but nothing best. It’s a good starter until you know more what preference will be.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Haraold]

Donic Acuda s2 -Nittaku Factive-Butterfly Glayzer
That was my setup after coming back from a 30 year Absence,depends on your technique and Niveau you play or played at or momentarily.
Those 3 rubbers where the most satisfying in terms of All Around rubbers.
And in that order.
S2 (42.5)->Factive 45° -Glyzer 47-48 Hardness.
but Rakza or Mark v is also a good choice but times have changed so i would at least go with a Tensor-
The Times They are Changing,you can do it!

 

[Haraold]

well and some Rubbers are harder to play with but excel in other aspects.
With the Allplay you can try a lot of rubbers,I would personally go with the S2 on Backhand and the Factive on Forehand,if xou ambitious and train regularly got with Factive BH and eff it the Glayzer on FH,;i mean it is also a motivation Factor to get to a level,where you can take advantage of some "deadlier" rubbers.

 

[JJ Ng]

I like Donic Persson Powerplay. It is a pretty fast 7-ply all wood. So you get the all wood feel, plus the speed.

I like ESN rubber especially if you complain that Friendship is a bit slow.

Forehand a bit harder. So Xiom Vega Asia.

Backhand a bit softer. So Xiom Vega Europe.

Xiom Vega series are very very good money for the performance.

If you stick with Donic Appelgren Allplay Senso V1, then 2.0mm Xiom Vega Asia for forehand and 2.0mm Xiom Vega Europe for backhand.

If you want to upgrade to Donic Persson Powerplay, which is a very very affordable blade, then 1.8mm Xiom Vega Asia for forehand and 1.8mm Xiom Vega Europe.

If your forehand improves, you can upgrade forehand to Xiom Vega Pro or Xiom Vega X. Both are pretty fast.

 

[SamTheMan]

Keep the Appelgren. It’s still considered a great beginners blade. It will help you develop your game.

Rakza 7 is a great middle of the road rubber. Great spin, easy to play and good enough speed. Another similar rubber I would recommend is Nittaku G-1. Both can be found a low prices. I think you should choose the same for both forehand and backhand in 2.0 mm.

Another option could be Rakza Z. A great middle of the road hybrid rubber. Lots of spin and very easy to control.

 

[Lula]

What is your level now? always better with slower in the beginning i think, as long as the grip is good and the rubber is not too soft or too hard. Either go for a rubber with built in glue effect or not, depends on the level.

 

[S-Pin]

Keep the Appelgren. It’s still considered a great beginners blade. It will help you develop your game.

Rakza 7 is a great middle of the road rubber. Great spin, easy to play and good enough speed. Another similar rubber I would recommend is Nittaku G-1. Both can be found a low prices. I think you should choose the same for both forehand and backhand in 2.0 mm.

Another option could be Rakza Z. A great middle of the road hybrid rubber. Lots of spin and very easy to control.

+100%.
There's nothing wrong with Appelgren, Rakza 7 is a great option: fast enough, spinny, durable and comfortable to play with ( it will react to incoming spin but this is imho a necessary learning curve), and it gives you smooth transition path to either Rakza X (or some more offensive tensor), or Rakza Z (or some Chinese tacky/sticky rubber), depending on which direction you'll decide to go.
I wouldn't play different rubbers on a blade to start with after a long hiatus, but your mileage may differ.

 

[latej]

Keep the Appelgren. It’s still considered a great beginners blade. It will help you develop your game.

Rakza 7 is a great middle of the road rubber. Great spin, easy to play and good enough speed. Another similar rubber I would recommend is Nittaku G-1. Both can be found a low prices. I think you should choose the same for both forehand and backhand in 2.0 mm.

Another option could be Rakza Z. A great middle of the road hybrid rubber. Lots of spin and very easy to control.

I too agree with that. Also thought about Rakza Z when I read OP's post.

However, 1 thing interests me. Why do you recommend to take the same rubbers on both sides? I'd recommend to not do that.

 

[S-Pin]

I too agree with that. Also thought about Rakza Z when I read OP's post.

However, 1 thing interests me. Why do you recommend to take the same rubbers on both sides? I'd recommend to not do that.

I just think that (based on my experience) when you come back after a very long hiatus, you need to quickly get back to the rhythm and feel, and two different rubbers may just add to the confusion. I know some coaches recommend this to beginners as well. Something like Rakza & on FH and Rakza 7 Soft on BH are OK of course. But it's a personal thing. I generally prefer rubbers that play well on both wings.

 

[Jan_]

Rakza 7, Rozena or bluefire on one of your blades would be just fine. You shouldn't really need anything from a blade standpoint, and these rubbers are easy for developing players.

 

[latej]

I just think that (based on my experience) when you come back after a very long hiatus, you need to quickly get back to the rhythm and feel, and two different rubbers may just add to the confusion. I know some coaches recommend this to beginners as well. Something like Rakza & on FH and Rakza 7 Soft on BH are OK of course. But it's a personal thing. I generally prefer rubbers that play well on both wings.

Yes, to get back to rhythm and feel - and for that we need mostly practice and equipment which is not wrong. (E.g. I'd not recommend H3 H41 or something like that, or MXP or something too soft, so I'd say, something moderate.) But I can only say equipment which is not wrong, because we don't know what is right, and what will the OP's preference be. So I thought, to save time and money, he could have 2 different rubbers, both moderate (like say R7 2.0 on BH and RZ max on FH), and he can feel the differences and decide quicker the way he wants to go... So these are my thoughts, I think Sam has his reasons too...

 

[S-Pin]

Yes, to get back to rhythm and feel - and for that we need mostly practice and equipment which is not wrong. (E.g. I'd not recommend H3 H41 or something like that, or MXP or something too soft, so I'd say, something moderate.) But I can only say equipment which is not wrong, because we don't know what is right, and what will the OP's preference be. So I thought, to save time and money, he could have 2 different rubbers, both moderate (like say R7 2.0 on BH and RZ max on FH), and he can feel the differences and decide quicker the way he wants to go... So these are my thoughts, I think Sam has his reasons too...

Sure, that could be the option of course if he is ok with that. Rakza Z will be great on a soft blade. RZ max is quite heavy though.

 

[Tyce]

Thanks for the interesting replies and discussion! Nice to see that my idea of Rakza 7 wasn't all that strange

As far as my level is concerned, when I quit I was around ~1000 in Dutch the (NTTB) rating system. I honestly don't feel that much off-level, and as I briefly mentioned I think my gear has hurt my game in the last years I played. I was plateau-ing and made tons of unforced errors.
I would say I'd estimate my level to be approximately equal to what it was back then - going from single to married and 2 kids means I have much more appreciation for patience and playing out a game tactically rather than playing to constantly force a point.

Interestingly nobody mentions the Waldner Impuls blade I'll put that option to rest then. It's not that interesting of a blade for me so either I keep it as a backup or I'll just get rid of it eventually. I'm not keen on investing in a new blade (yet) but who knows what happens when I manage to find myself a couple of steps further.

I'm reading a few things about too soft or too hard - I'm wondering what the "issue" is with going too soft or too hard?
Either way, from the discussion I'm leaning towards Rakza 7, Rakza 7 Soft and Nittaku G-1 (I've always been curious about Nittaku) as all seem to be good allround options without too steep of a learning curve. Exactly what I'm looking for at the moment: gear that supports me, instead of gear I have to try and keep up with
Also, interesting enough, I haven't played both sides with the same rubber for a loooong time, so I'm going to do that now and see where it takes me. Could be a great help to understand how my FH works compared to my BH and vice versa

 

[Jan_]

Thanks for the interesting replies and discussion! Nice to see that my idea of Rakza 7 wasn't all that strange

As far as my level is concerned, when I quit I was around ~1000 in Dutch the (NTTB) rating system. I honestly don't feel that much off-level, and as I briefly mentioned I think my gear has hurt my game in the last years I played. I was plateau-ing and made tons of unforced errors.
I would say I'd estimate my level to be approximately equal to what it was back then - going from single to married and 2 kids means I have much more appreciation for patience and playing out a game tactically rather than playing to constantly force a point.

Interestingly nobody mentions the Waldner Impuls blade I'll put that option to rest then. It's not that interesting of a blade for me so either I keep it as a backup or I'll just get rid of it eventually. I'm not keen on investing in a new blade (yet) but who knows what happens when I manage to find myself a couple of steps further.

I'm reading a few things about too soft or too hard - I'm wondering what the "issue" is with going too soft or too hard?
Either way, from the discussion I'm leaning towards Rakza 7, Rakza 7 Soft and Nittaku G-1 (I've always been curious about Nittaku) as all seem to be good allround options without too steep of a learning curve. Exactly what I'm looking for at the moment: gear that supports me, instead of gear I have to try and keep up with
Also, interesting enough, I haven't played both sides with the same rubber for a loooong time, so I'm going to do that now and see where it takes me. Could be a great help to understand how my FH works compared to my BH and vice versa

From the waldner blades series, only the waldner senso carbon and waldner ultra senso carbon are really worth it, with the latter being one hell of a blade, good speed and great feeling and control. My coach uses it, impressive blade.

 

[Tyce]

So here's what I did:
I ordered Rakza 7 in 2.0 for the Appelgren Allplay, as well as two sheets of Friendship/729 Super FX for the Waldner Impuls IR 6.5 so I can keep that one at the workplace.

Yesterday I glued it all together, and in the evening I went training with the Rakza 7 bat.

First off, spin is a GIGANTIC improvement - but very much manageable.
Speed is good for me. It feels predictable. Linear, but a good amount of bounce so the base speed is there making everything just a little lighter to manage.
Flat hits are good, I don't seem to overhit this rubber to the point I lose control which is something I didn't realize before but was a big contribution to me missing smashes: the combination of soft rubber and flexible blade made for a very inconsistent experience in relation to hitting speed. Slow hits are all catapult and rubber dwell time, medium hits are mostly rubber dwell time and blade flex, but hard hits are basically hitting the wood suddenly changing the dwell mechanics.
With the Donic Quattro Formula this was a real issue, with the Rakza 7 I don't get this problem. I've tried my best to hit a few real hard flat hit smashes but they mostly went flying in the direction I would expect them to.

Long story short:
BH: Chop is good, push is good, flat hit is good, flick and loop is good
FH: Chop is good, push is good, flat hit is good, and flick is good.
...as for FH loop, I realize I need to improve my swing. I have become so accustomed to a really jerky spin swing that stops just after I hit the ball, because that works with the soft, dwelly rubber. It's a risky technique and leaves me making errors. I really need to improve my FH loop swing and the new setup will definitely help there.

Fun fact: the trainer at my club is pretty high ranked in NL - plays in the top division too. I hope to learn a lot from him, but he said I made a good pick in rubbers. Definitely helps

That being said, I played during lunch break at work here with the fresh Friendship rubbers. Note that I have played with a sheet of Friendship before, but either I forgot how it was brand new or I'm doing something really different. The ball drops DEAD on this stuff. I can see now how this is useful to developing players, as you *have* to make a swing to clear the net. They did send me a 1.5 orange and a 2.0 blue sponge by mistake, but I'm not fussed about that as it's just for fun. It's useful trying to feel the differences between thicker and thinner versions of the same rubber too.

 

[Tyce]

Hi everyone! I've had a couple of sessions with this new setup (2x Rakza 7 2.0mm on Appelgren Allplay Senso V1) and I would love your input on something.

The issue is, my FH just feels very out of whack and insecure, and I'm wondering what the major factor is here.
I don't seem to be able to get my grip and drive working fluidly, top spin shots are going over the table all the time and I'm just not able to hit the ball in the right place, moment and with the correct motion.

Here's what I did notice:
- the setup feels a lot more top-heavy. The light, hollow Senso handle obviously doesn't help here, and it actually feels like the handle has shrunk (which is impossible ofc) compared to the setup with old rubbers.
I was able to balance the bat between thumb and index finger for nice flicky serves, but that balance really isn't there anymore.
- I think I'm feeling more of the blade's flex, which could be contributed to the weight and/or the more rigid rubber. Could that actually make the flex so much more prominent that it affects the shot accuracy?
- My backhand is actually doing pretty well with the same rubber. Also doesn't matter if I flip the colours, both sides feel the same. BH flicks and opening drives are brilliant actually, love that part.
- Low-movement FH strokes are OK-ish, but anything that requires more swing just ends up in a jerky subconscious reaction, with the bat finishing near my shoulder.

I'm not sure what I can do best to improve on this situation. Part of me is leaning towards getting a new, less flexy blade with a center of gravity more towards the (thicker) handle, but that feels like I'm ignoring the problem rather than trying to understand and solve it.

 

[Lazer]

Its probably mostly You, you are rusty. Put grip tape on the handle, this will move the center of gravity downwards as well as increasing the grip size. It should not make much difference other than feel.
This said I think that Appelgren allplay is way too thin and flimsy.

Stick with this setup for awhile to see what happens.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tyce]

Grip tape is a great idea actually, good low-cost, reversible solution to test with
I could try to stuff something in the grip too for balance's sake now that I think of it.

I agree that in the long run, the Appelgren will need to be replaced. I think I'm starting to understand why people are saying it's not suitable for today's heavier rubbers. I do want to take it one step at a time, so that I actually understand and feel the differences, leading to better informed decisions in the future.

While I do understand, and partially agree with, the notion I "just need to get used to it", I think there's more to it. I have yet to hit more than a handful of good FH topspin loops, and my intuition is telling me something is off.

Unfortunately, my intuition speaks with the vocabulary of a baby so I don't understand yet *what* is off.

 

[Crillo]

Hi everyone! I've had a couple of sessions with this new setup (2x Rakza 7 2.0mm on Appelgren Allplay Senso V1) and I would love your input on something.

The issue is, my FH just feels very out of whack and insecure, and I'm wondering what the major factor is here.
I don't seem to be able to get my grip and drive working fluidly, top spin shots are going over the table all the time and I'm just not able to hit the ball in the right place, moment and with the correct motion.

Here's what I did notice:
- the setup feels a lot more top-heavy. The light, hollow Senso handle obviously doesn't help here, and it actually feels like the handle has shrunk (which is impossible ofc) compared to the setup with old rubbers.
I was able to balance the bat between thumb and index finger for nice flicky serves, but that balance really isn't there anymore.
- I think I'm feeling more of the blade's flex, which could be contributed to the weight and/or the more rigid rubber. Could that actually make the flex so much more prominent that it affects the shot accuracy?
- My backhand is actually doing pretty well with the same rubber. Also doesn't matter if I flip the colours, both sides feel the same. BH flicks and opening drives are brilliant actually, love that part.
- Low-movement FH strokes are OK-ish, but anything that requires more swing just ends up in a jerky subconscious reaction, with the bat finishing near my shoulder.

I'm not sure what I can do best to improve on this situation. Part of me is leaning towards getting a new, less flexy blade with a center of gravity more towards the (thicker) handle, but that feels like I'm ignoring the problem rather than trying to understand and solve it.

It's not your rubbers or equipment, you are rusty. Ask your coach "why does my FH loop suck? He or she can probably see what you can´t and in a few weeks time you get used to your rubbers and blade. Its not a crazy or weird blade and rubber combination and the thickness is about right too. Don't worry give it som time!