New all-wood blade recommendations wanted
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says
Spin and more spin.
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Spin and more spin.
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May also want to look at OSP Virtuoso+ and Virtuoso Off-.
Also: Xiom Offensive S.
There really are so many good choices out there.
Also: Xiom Offensive S.
There really are so many good choices out there.
says
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That should not exclude all composite blades. I mean carbon is only one type. There's fiberglass in example and others.
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I have tested Andro Timber OFF+, Tibhar Bernadette Szocs Signature 1, Nittaku S-7. They all play very good. S-7 has spruce outer play and feels softer than others.
says
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Absolutely. Of course we are not talking pingpong blades here anymore, we are talking about saving the planet. Carbon burning emits nasty green house gases.
Personally speaking, I have done my research and concluded that the planet is safe. It might not be possible anymore for many creatures to live on its crust for a while but planet earth will keep on keepin on. 😁
Actually the carbon in blades is more or less permanently captured. Probably not done in a particularly energy efficient manner, but they're not released into the atmosphere.
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Of course but our friend the OP looks at it from a ecological point of view and at one stage every pingpongblade needs to be recycled. It is at that time when the individual parts of the blade, like carbon, wood, resins etc might become harmful to the environment.
Personally I admit that I am past caring, "" the train has left the station.""
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I did not open this thread to ask about other people's ecological standpoints. That discussion has no place here. Though it's fair to point out that I am disregarding a material that's being widely used, the constructive replies are showing that there is still a lot of options for me to choose from.
Please keep this thread about my question, not about your opinion on the limitations I have set for myself. Thanks.
Please keep this thread about my question, not about your opinion on the limitations I have set for myself. Thanks.
First question: Top wood. If you want good spin, I would go with Limba, not Koto or Hinoki.
Second question: 5 or 7 layers? Except for the Xiom Offensive S, my blades which qualify are 7 layers
I also find that the handle on the Offensive S is unusual (wide but flat) and so you need to test-play and like it.
For the 7-layer blades:
* I play the Victas Swat (1162Hz, 80g, 6.0mm) which is "slower" than many 5-layer blades but actually works very well for me. It has some flex. It may be too slow for you.
* I have the Tibhar Samsonov Black Edition (1378Hz, 89g, 6.6mm), it definitely has a punch, I actually would prefer the little slower "non-black" edition.
* Yinhe Purple Dragon 437S: 1270Hz, 89.6g, 6.6mm: Very nice blade. Note that the older 437 is faster (1399Hz, 91.3g, 6.9mm thick). Also very affordable at AliExpress. There is also the 537 with Walnut top instead of Limba top. Less flexible, less soft touch. Same frequency and weight as the 437.
* Sanwei Fextra (87.2g, 1421Hz, 6.4mm): Whoever has it loves it. Limba/Limba top layers. Replaced by "Fextra One" which I don't have.
The Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive with Walnut top is fast, 5 ply, but I think the Limba top 7-ply blades are better but a little heavier. It is the TT11 #1 so you may want to test-play it. I like the Yinhe similar Pro-5W better (1356 Hz, 85g, 6.1mm).
Also see this link for TT11 sales.
Second question: 5 or 7 layers? Except for the Xiom Offensive S, my blades which qualify are 7 layers
I also find that the handle on the Offensive S is unusual (wide but flat) and so you need to test-play and like it.
For the 7-layer blades:
* I play the Victas Swat (1162Hz, 80g, 6.0mm) which is "slower" than many 5-layer blades but actually works very well for me. It has some flex. It may be too slow for you.
* I have the Tibhar Samsonov Black Edition (1378Hz, 89g, 6.6mm), it definitely has a punch, I actually would prefer the little slower "non-black" edition.
* Yinhe Purple Dragon 437S: 1270Hz, 89.6g, 6.6mm: Very nice blade. Note that the older 437 is faster (1399Hz, 91.3g, 6.9mm thick). Also very affordable at AliExpress. There is also the 537 with Walnut top instead of Limba top. Less flexible, less soft touch. Same frequency and weight as the 437.
* Sanwei Fextra (87.2g, 1421Hz, 6.4mm): Whoever has it loves it. Limba/Limba top layers. Replaced by "Fextra One" which I don't have.
The Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive with Walnut top is fast, 5 ply, but I think the Limba top 7-ply blades are better but a little heavier. It is the TT11 #1 so you may want to test-play it. I like the Yinhe similar Pro-5W better (1356 Hz, 85g, 6.1mm).
Also see this link for TT11 sales.
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I’m sorry but I have to challenge your first point - hinoki or koto not providing good spin is simply not true. Limba may provide a softer feel but it does not offer any more spin than either of the other two.
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In regard to comments about the comfort of the handle of the Xiom Offensive S, I suspect that they are referring to the original model?
For disambiguation, please refer to:
The new model is avail from tt11 for a very reasonable price.
I agree with @Wrighty67 that it is probably misleading to generalize about the relative 'spininess' of different woods.
For disambiguation, please refer to:
The new model is avail from tt11 for a very reasonable price.
I agree with @Wrighty67 that it is probably misleading to generalize about the relative 'spininess' of different woods.
says
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You started it by first bringing the word ecological sense. 😂
But jokes aside, the longer you will take part in this forum you will find that most threads sooner or later end up drifting away from their OPs intentions. So don't be surprised when you ask about a specific blade or rubber you end up discussing metaphysical questions like : " Is dying healthy - if YES - why not "
Forget the aesthetics, Acoustic/Rakza 7 is an excellent match, I used to play with it some time ago. 85-90g Acoustic/Rakza 7 is fast enough for any amateur player, with great control and good spin. If you're at a higher level and this combo won't be offensive enough to you, you can swap R7 for GoldArc 8, which feels similar to R7 in terms of hardness and dwell, but is more tenacious and grippy, with higher throw and overall it is a more offensive rubber. If you are an advanced player with proper technique, you can generate great speed and monstrous spin with this combo.
One thing you need to bear in mind. Nittaku Acoustic has such a great feedback/feel, it gives you an impression of a super controlled, friendly and easy-peasy to play blade. In reality this blade is lively and rather fast and with a tensor rubber like GoldArc 8 it could be quite bouncy and not as easy to control in a short game when it comes to real matches. It is much easier to control than most BFY carbon blades like Viscaria etc due to longer dwell, but there are also carbon blades out there that are more controlled in that sense compared to Acoustic, such as JRE. Nittaku Ludeack btw, is a 7-ply all-wood blade that is faster, but more controlled than an Acoustic. It lacks the Acoustic feel though.
Also bear in mind that Acoustic has three different handles, the regular FL is quite thin, the LG is thick as a chair leg, and SG Special is somewhere between, closer to LG, but perfect size to me (I have average size hands).
I have an acoustic and a violin, both with G-1 forehand and then C-1 or G-1 on backhand. Seems a nice combination to me, I came from having rakza 7 on a YSE. Also, the violin is standard flared handled, it feels a bit slim but managable, I got the acoustic with the standard straight handle (first time with a straight handle), it feels significantly fatter where it counts and i'm getting on with it very well.
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Falcima is a bit special... it is a fast all-wood blade at least my 92g specimen and has a somewhat balsa-like catapult when hitting hard(er). I wouldn't use it with catapulty rubbers like R7 or R7 Soft (might work but not for me). Same speed group but more linear in this regard: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive (YEO).
Nice fast blade with hinoki outer ply: Cornilleau Hinotec Off- (ayous core, not the Off version with a kiri core). Has an unusual head size (155 mm x 153 mm). Great build quality.
Persson Powerplay (PPP) is definitely a good choice: Not as fast as real 7-ply blades like a Clipper due to the damping foil (paper) and thinner construction but it has the same core construction (3x ayous). Stiffer than many 5-ply blades. Appelgren Allplay is definitely just ALL not ALL+/(lower)OFF- like the Sweden Extra, Persson Powerplay is OFF-/OFF like a Korbel depending on its weight.
Xiom Offensive S is also a good choice from what I've read but holds the ball not as deep as a Korbel or YEO.
TSP/Victas Swat: classical 7-ply structure but thinner, more flexible than Clipper. 87g+ recommended otherwise it feels quite dull/cardboard like.
SK7: https://ttgearlab.com/2023/11/02/butterfly-sk7-classic-photos-information/ would be the fastest blade (faster than some carbon blades)
Speed: SK7 > Clipper > Swat/YEO/Falcima > PPP/Korbel/Hinotec > Sweden Extra > Allplay.
Weight: Sweden Extra around 85g if you want more speed, Falcima 90g. YEO 90g (not that easy to find lighter ones), Korbel 85g to 90g, Persson Powerplay 90g. Hinotec Off- 85g.
PPP like a Korbel can be as light as 80g but also as heavy as 100g. More weight more speed.
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Persson Power Play is one of many appropriate wood blades for the OP.
With an allround offensive rubber like Aurus in its different degrees of sponge, you can do ANY DAMN THING to the ball and make it look easy.
You will want to spin for first shot when you use this blade, however... when you WANT to pound dat ball you certainly can.
With an allround offensive rubber like Aurus in its different degrees of sponge, you can do ANY DAMN THING to the ball and make it look easy.
You will want to spin for first shot when you use this blade, however... when you WANT to pound dat ball you certainly can.
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I second the Aurus, can't thanks you enough for having solved my EJ-ing bug.
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Thanks for the gigantic list of options as my backup/workplace blade seems to have an internal break, I'm jumping on a new blade today. Even with all the research in the world, I think the most important decision was whether I want a fast 5-ply blade or a "slower" 7-ply. Or, do I take one step, or a bigger leap?
I've opted for the bigger leap and ordered a Clipper Wood. If I'd gone with an OFF 5-ply, I would have kept wondering if I could play with a 7-ply, whereas if I can't handle the Clipper, I know I need to step towards a 5-ply.
(and I will be more confident to splurge on an Acoustic or Violin in that case... )
As for why Clipper, and not a different 7-ply?
The alternatives I was considering were both Tibhar (Force Pro Black Edition, B. Szöcs) and all three of these are pretty similar. Tibhar's offerings were actually cheaper, too. But I figured if I wanted to get feedback from clubmates and trainers, going with the option that's extremely well known makes perfect sense. Everyone with a little bit of gear knowledge knows what the Clipper Wood is, what it does and doesn't do.
In the 5-ply department, I mostly considered the Butterfly Korbel (EU and JAP), Nittaku Acoustic and a little bit the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive.
The brands that I know less or not at all, I didn't look into (yet) simply because I already had a lot of options. Victas, Andro, Vodak, all very interesting but I didn't need to branch out.
Last, I mentioned Hinoki. I decided not to go for that because I want to develop with "Euro-standard" gear for now. Once I reach the point where I feel development is stalling, or becoming tedious/boring, maybe that will be a good moment to start experimenting with different kinds of gear. For now, the step I am taking from a very flexible and slow blade to playing with a more conventional, average performing wooden ALL+/OFF- setup is good. No need to make multiple steps here and verging into unfamiliar materials, too.
I'd also like to share my main takeaways from this research with you:
Reviews, even the most subjective ones like ttgearlab, are always dependent on circumstances and individual iterations of products. With wood being the main part of any TT blade, there will simply always be minute differences between blades even when they are cut from the same sheet of glued veneers.
As such, any review really only applies to the exact specimen being reviewed. The specifications of the reviewed product can give a hint as to what characteristics may be enhanced or muted, but even with something like a 20 gram weight difference, it doesn't tell you what the cause of that difference is.
It could be a thicker sheet, more density in the plies or the handle, maybe even slight differences in the head size or shape from using different machines and router bits.
What this tells me, is that when a reviewer mentions "slightly different", "a little more elastic", "just a bit harder", it's probably going to average out to being the same when you use a bigger sample size. That's just wood being wood.
Next time, I won't be looking for specific brand recommendations anymore. Just the general wood composition should be enough. And yes, maybe you get a specimen that behaves quite a bit different than another, but unless the composition has been changed completely, it's going to be something you can adapt to.
I don't think I'll ever be a delicate enough person to be able to feel the difference between a Clipper Wood and a Tibhar Force Pro Black Edition (given the same handle shape) in a blind test. And I find it hard to believe anyone would be able to tell that blindly when both blades use the same handle, and are glued with the same rubbers.
as my backup/workplace blade seems to have an internal break, I'm jumping on a new blade today. Even with all the research in the world, I think the most important decision was whether I want a fast 5-ply blade or a "slower" 7-ply. Or, do I take one step, or a bigger leap?I've opted for the bigger leap and ordered a Clipper Wood. If I'd gone with an OFF 5-ply, I would have kept wondering if I could play with a 7-ply, whereas if I can't handle the Clipper, I know I need to step towards a 5-ply.
(and I will be more confident to splurge on an Acoustic or Violin in that case... )
As for why Clipper, and not a different 7-ply?
The alternatives I was considering were both Tibhar (Force Pro Black Edition, B. Szöcs) and all three of these are pretty similar. Tibhar's offerings were actually cheaper, too. But I figured if I wanted to get feedback from clubmates and trainers, going with the option that's extremely well known makes perfect sense. Everyone with a little bit of gear knowledge knows what the Clipper Wood is, what it does and doesn't do.
In the 5-ply department, I mostly considered the Butterfly Korbel (EU and JAP), Nittaku Acoustic and a little bit the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive.
The brands that I know less or not at all, I didn't look into (yet) simply because I already had a lot of options. Victas, Andro, Vodak, all very interesting but I didn't need to branch out.
Last, I mentioned Hinoki. I decided not to go for that because I want to develop with "Euro-standard" gear for now. Once I reach the point where I feel development is stalling, or becoming tedious/boring, maybe that will be a good moment to start experimenting with different kinds of gear. For now, the step I am taking from a very flexible and slow blade to playing with a more conventional, average performing wooden ALL+/OFF- setup is good. No need to make multiple steps here and verging into unfamiliar materials, too.
I'd also like to share my main takeaways from this research with you:
Reviews, even the most subjective ones like ttgearlab, are always dependent on circumstances and individual iterations of products. With wood being the main part of any TT blade, there will simply always be minute differences between blades even when they are cut from the same sheet of glued veneers.
As such, any review really only applies to the exact specimen being reviewed. The specifications of the reviewed product can give a hint as to what characteristics may be enhanced or muted, but even with something like a 20 gram weight difference, it doesn't tell you what the cause of that difference is.
It could be a thicker sheet, more density in the plies or the handle, maybe even slight differences in the head size or shape from using different machines and router bits.
What this tells me, is that when a reviewer mentions "slightly different", "a little more elastic", "just a bit harder", it's probably going to average out to being the same when you use a bigger sample size. That's just wood being wood.
Next time, I won't be looking for specific brand recommendations anymore. Just the general wood composition should be enough. And yes, maybe you get a specimen that behaves quite a bit different than another, but unless the composition has been changed completely, it's going to be something you can adapt to.
I don't think I'll ever be a delicate enough person to be able to feel the difference between a Clipper Wood and a Tibhar Force Pro Black Edition (given the same handle shape) in a blind test. And I find it hard to believe anyone would be able to tell that blindly when both blades use the same handle, and are glued with the same rubbers.
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