Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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This is the third and last match of the league match. Against a much higher rated player, he has about 400 points more than i have. I managed to win the first game but he figured out my weaknesses after that and i lost in fore.



Its in two parts, my phone had its problems.
 
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Carl, I get your point. The pointers I got on my last video were helpful indeed, and I'm sure my serve would improve as well if I got it out there.

However most of the discussion regarding the last video, while helpful, was depressing. I'm sure you remember the remarks on just how bad I was compared to how people had expected me to improve.

I've established far too high expectations that I can't meet, and I don't feel like being told I'm a liar because I haven't shown any proof and that I'm an even worse liar because reality doesn't match the hype.

Now, I know that you know just about exactly how bad my serves and my game are even if you can't see them and you just want to help me improve. At least, I hope so. So I have some will to go out there and get shat on so my game can improve. However it's slightly disheartening at times.
 
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PS: Awesome footwork at 4:23. How did it improve so much in a short time? I'm trying to advance to this kind of footwork, so I'm curious how you did it.


Thanks:)Hmm i don't actually know. Some time ago i did heaps of falkenberg drills. Maybe that's it.
Btw thanks for pointing that sequence out, i rly like that part now :D After that i rewatched parts and the footwork tells so much about the game and about the quality of balls.
 
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Looking good Boogar! Those deep serves and pushes that come fast definitely make it tough to put a good, relaxed swing on the ball. When you have time to take the swing you've obviously practiced a lot, you're consistent and really spiny. I think footwork and experience will make a big difference in your success with looping the faster balls like that. You play a good game man, keep at it!

Thanks for the kind words! Jea experience and more training is going to help i hope :D
 
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Reverse Tomahawk for the win at 5:26 :D

Revers backhand serve at 18:24 :D

Hey Boogar, well done on getting 2 wins for your team! I also like those reverse tomahawk and reverse backhand serve you did. If I was receiving them, they would make me hesitate for a bit as I certainly don't see them often!

In the first video, the first point involved 3 nets and I am happy to still see you try hard to get that point!
I have not had the time to watch all of the videos completely, but all I can say is, a match between us is long overdue :D
 
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Went 4-1 in Smash ttc league where there were 5 of us around same level severely underated. I joked I could go 1-4 and drop below 1800 or go 4-1... went 4-1 so no bats ignore got posted by the mayor.

Three of us are team mates for our team on NA Teams 2016... so it was encouraging to see us all fight the close ones.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
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I'm not even on the school team as all of them are better than me :D

So you've known Pu already? Where did you meet him?

Nah I don't know pu, I just talk to samuels and his father quite a bit, getting updates on how the kansas crew is doing. Right before samuel started school he won the U2000 in iowa. He was low 1700 at the time and shot up to over 2000 while also beating his dad for the first time in tournament. A great way to say goodbye I might add. The school team should have a JV division you could do to improve at least!
 
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Guess what I found today when going through the oldest stuff I could find in my icloud storage! Video of me, 4 months after picking up a paddle.

Woah crazy, someone's holding my phone taking the video for me! I have no idea how they managed to get me at an angle where the video can see what I'm doing! Must be a professional recorder.

It's nice to see some of my old bad habits that are gone these days. Also nice to see how bad the quality of my opponents was back then. I thought they were great at the time. One thing I don't like about how I've developed today, is that back then I seemed way more confident going through the ball. Now I feel cautious.

 
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This is the third and last match of the league match. Against a much higher rated player, he has about 400 points more than i have. I managed to win the first game but he figured out my weaknesses after that and i lost in fore.



Its in two parts, my phone had its problems.

Hi i've not watched it all,
I would say you didn't feel that much difference between you and him, maybe he wasn't focused 100% ? he made a lot of easy mistakes as well.

From what i saw, there are mainly 2 problems:
- consistency. you made some good rallies, being able to attack two or three times to finish the point. But too many times, you miss opening shots or rally drives which don't seem that hard. I think its because you rush a bit too much. During rallies the bat angle should be closed a bit more.

- your push technique is very bad. Many times the ball is flying giving an easy penalty ball. Maybe you're not reading the spin well all the time, but the main reason i think is you reach too much for the ball, instead of stepping to the ball, you are not relaxed, you are using too much wrist. Wrist action should be subtle only at ball contact. Get the racket at the right angle and go to the ball. just at contact, add a little little bit of wrist action by going below the ball. against backspin the bat angle should be near parallel to the table, against topspin or nospin, nearer perpendicular but you might prefer to go for a flick instead.

Also if the ball is long, you should try to drive it anyway, not push it. even if that particular guy was not attacking too much, if you want to improve as a player, if the guy serves long, drive it. if he pushes long to you, drive and topspin it. Pushing back a long ball is more difficult than a short ball. Because you push back those balls instead of driving it, you get into trouble.

I hope it helps
 
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Boogar,

You gotta swing from the body more. You are getting about 20% of your true power. And you are pushing too many balls. You have to do service falkenberg. Do falkenberg drill with the feeder serving. Loop even the balls that you think will break your racket and loop the high balls over the table. It will change how you see table tennis.

I like how your game is going - ignore my impatience :cool:.

NL

Thanks for your words NL :)

What do you mean with service falkenberg, do you have an example recorded somewhere?

Cheers
 
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Hi i've not watched it all,
I would say you didn't feel that much difference between you and him, maybe he wasn't focused 100% ? he made a lot of easy mistakes as well.

From what i saw, there are mainly 2 problems:
- consistency. you made some good rallies, being able to attack two or three times to finish the point. But too many times, you miss opening shots or rally drives which don't seem that hard. I think its because you rush a bit too much. During rallies the bat angle should be closed a bit more.

- your push technique is very bad. Many times the ball is flying giving an easy penalty ball. Maybe you're not reading the spin well all the time, but the main reason i think is you reach too much for the ball, instead of stepping to the ball, you are not relaxed, you are using too much wrist. Wrist action should be subtle only at ball contact. Get the racket at the right angle and go to the ball. just at contact, add a little little bit of wrist action by going below the ball. against backspin the bat angle should be near parallel to the table, against topspin or nospin, nearer perpendicular but you might prefer to go for a flick instead.

Also if the ball is long, you should try to drive it anyway, not push it. even if that particular guy was not attacking too much, if you want to improve as a player, if the guy serves long, drive it. if he pushes long to you, drive and topspin it. Pushing back a long ball is more difficult than a short ball. Because you push back those balls instead of driving it, you get into trouble.

I hope it helps

Thanks for the feedback!

Will keep hat in mind. The thing is i am very bad at attacking long serves. I try to practice it, but it never works out.
Also good point about the reaching, i think you are spot on.

All feedback helps :) cheers
 
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Boogar, I can tell you one thing from my experience attacking long serves. Eveyone around me loves serving long and fast, often illegally, so I kind of need to be able to do it.


Do you notice with how much power and how big you're swinging, and how little brush you use?


Look at 3:58 in this for example. You're attacking a serve with your backhand. Then 7:28.

Do you think you would have succeeded better if you used a smaller stroke, focused on 4th ball instead of 2nd ball and tried to spin it up instead of smacking it?


Unrelated, but I'm watching the videos through.

Your rallying has really improved. It makes me want to record some more, hopefully with a decent opponent this time. I'm roughly co-level with the penholder I play with so I think it makes for good footage. He said we'd play some on Monday, but at this rate I don't know if I will attend on Monday. I might also have a slightly less worse camera-phone to record with, so that's something.
 
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Thanks for the feedback!

Will keep hat in mind. The thing is i am very bad at attacking long serves. I try to practice it, but it never works out.
Also good point about the reaching, i think you are spot on.

All feedback helps :) cheers

First of all, what you need to realize is that most of the balls you are seeing are not heavy balls. If you close your racket and loop those balls with a full body stroke, you will kill most of them. Part of the problem is that you are trying to use touch to control the balls that have no spin that should be killed or at least looped heavily. For me, you are always standing in a way that makes it seem that you are not ready to loop any ball that is weak. You need to reprogram your brain as you are too young and athletic to be pushing so many balls.

Serve falkenberg is simply a drill where instead of the feeder giving you fast multiball, the feeder is serving the ball to you. It isn't perfect in this video, but you will get an idea of what it is about if you watch it. It will make your movement to slow long balls better and improve your overall serve return and long ball loop feeling if the serve is not fast.

youtu.be/hOAN-2aaA-I?t=1061

I would recommend you take the ball sometimes even earlier than I do.

The other thing you need to work on is your high ball technique with a straight arm stroke. IF you do it, you will appreciate how much power the body and generate and you will be doing more loop kills. As simple and ridiculous as I look during this drill, this was the drill that started making me more aggressive on the forehand.

youtu.be/j3y0wg2Vg_E?t=81

It may sound crazy but I was trying to copy this stroke by Ma Long. There are more examples in the match.

youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=31
youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=156

Of course, I never fully copied it (I could not go over my head to my left hip), but it changed the way I thought about easy balls. I started realizing that many of the balls that I pushed are really balls that I can loop or kill if I get into position. It became one of my best shots and it is the reason why I serve a lot of short no-spin and just pivot. That is why I shake my head when I see you pushing balls that are clearly above net height that you can kill or loop.

The way I see you, you should be playing more like these guys here - don't injure yourself, but you should be at least be trying to put more quality on the ball. You use your athleticism to get to the ball, but you don't use your body to hit the ball and give it real quality. You don't push your racket into and through the ball - it is almost like you are still skimming it way too much. But even if you want to skim it, skim it while turning your core aggressively. Try to rotate your body and swing faster. Try to play some kill shots with proper form and extra body rotation and forget about recovery. It will open your eyes, seriously. Play Rambo table tennis for a bit, the way you are playing now, you will take years to learn what is possible. After a month of playing it, go back to your regular style but be ready to take out easy balls.

youtube.com/watch?v=eWAKiXm9e2I
 
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@Boogar

I think NL is making a lot of sense. However I have one tip:

Try it out against worse players! That way you will have a better success rate and be more confident. You can also play Rambo tt against worse players and not just get destroyed with blocks.
 
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First of all, what you need to realize is that most of the balls you are seeing are not heavy balls. If you close your racket and loop those balls with a full body stroke, you will kill most of them. Part of the problem is that you are trying to use touch to control the balls that have no spin that should be killed or at least looped heavily. For me, you are always standing in a way that makes it seem that you are not ready to loop any ball that is weak. You need to reprogram your brain as you are too young and athletic to be pushing so many balls.

Serve falkenberg is simply a drill where instead of the feeder giving you fast multiball, the feeder is serving the ball to you. It isn't perfect in this video, but you will get an idea of what it is about if you watch it. It will make your movement to slow long balls better and improve your overall serve return and long ball loop feeling if the serve is not fast.

youtu.be/hOAN-2aaA-I?t=1061

I would recommend you take the ball sometimes even earlier than I do.

The other thing you need to work on is your high ball technique with a straight arm stroke. IF you do it, you will appreciate how much power the body and generate and you will be doing more loop kills. As simple and ridiculous as I look during this drill, this was the drill that started making me more aggressive on the forehand.

youtu.be/j3y0wg2Vg_E?t=81

It may sound crazy but I was trying to copy this stroke by Ma Long. There are more examples in the match.

youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=31
youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=156

Of course, I never fully copied it (I could not go over my head to my left hip), but it changed the way I thought about easy balls. I started realizing that many of the balls that I pushed are really balls that I can loop or kill if I get into position. It became one of my best shots and it is the reason why I serve a lot of short no-spin and just pivot. That is why I shake my head when I see you pushing balls that are clearly above net height that you can kill or loop.

The way I see you, you should be playing more like these guys here - don't injure yourself, but you should be at least be trying to put more quality on the ball. You use your athleticism to get to the ball, but you don't use your body to hit the ball and give it real quality. You don't push your racket into and through the ball - it is almost like you are still skimming it way too much. But even if you want to skim it, skim it while turning your core aggressively. Try to rotate your body and swing faster. Try to play some kill shots with proper form and extra body rotation and forget about recovery. It will open your eyes, seriously. Play Rambo table tennis for a bit, the way you are playing now, you will take years to learn what is possible. After a month of playing it, go back to your regular style but be ready to take out easy balls.

youtube.com/watch?v=eWAKiXm9e2I

I need a super like button for this Post! :D Rambo it is!
 
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Ahahah, I like your new avatar Boogar. I think we are gonna see some great stuff from you soon.

If you think about it, a pro could easily produce really outstanding shots with our equipment. A pro could produce outstanding shots with a crappy premade racket.

With that in mind, there has to be a very big difference in how they use their body, and how we use it. Pros always talk about timing, and I think they're talking about the timing of turning the hips and coordinating the muscles.

Honestly, I couldn't really understand what the difference between 70% and 100% power was until recently, and I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I'm not understanding.

NL's comment of you only getting 20% of your power seems a bit absurdly low to me, but I'm sure it has a lot of truth to it. Your 100% right now might be your 50% a year or two down the line.

Only recently I've started to understand myself how much I'm limiting my power and just what the difference between my swings and much better swings is. In the end it seems to come down to racket head speed, and NL doesn't preach it for nothing. You're never gonna make good spin without high racket head speed.

EDIT:

@Boogar I watched your best of:



You'd think after 10 or so blocks that went into the sky, they'd have learned not to underestimate your spin!

I like 1:42. Not the most perfect form or anything but your contact was nice. It gives me this "feeling" of a loop when I see it. I couldn't notice it before when I had no idea what looping was.

Also 2:20 was great. Don't be afraid to loop every single long push you get on your 3rd ball. I know you can do it.
 
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First time playing since 24/10 but have been skipping 15-30mins each day and felt lighter on my feet. My forehand is slowly improving, but I am my backhand is really inconsistent.
 
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Boogar,

muss du en richtige Rambo Avatar haben... wie Der_Echte an OOAK.

rambo-survival-knife1.jpgrb1.jpg
 
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Carl, I get your point. The pointers I got on my last video were helpful indeed, and I'm sure my serve would improve as well if I got it out there.

However most of the discussion regarding the last video, while helpful, was depressing. I'm sure you remember the remarks on just how bad I was compared to how people had expected me to improve.

I've established far too high expectations that I can't meet, and I don't feel like being told I'm a liar because I haven't shown any proof and that I'm an even worse liar because reality doesn't match the hype.

Now, I know that you know just about exactly how bad my serves and my game are even if you can't see them and you just want to help me improve. At least, I hope so. So I have some will to go out there and get shat on so my game can improve. However it's slightly disheartening at times.

Here is the thing Archo, I can remember having that feeling, day by day of how I made great improvements. I also know, looking back, over years, how slow the real process of improvement and development is. How much work it really can take. And how, it is so much more about certain things that just take time on the table and also time in general because your brain needs to wrap itself around those specific things. Things that seem invisible, that you just can't see or understand, slowly, over time, your brain begins to discern and register these shades of difference and you start to understand them without even realizing how it happened.

But the thing is, in arguing your position about why you think all traditional penholders probably have trouble with reverse sidespin to their BH--based on a sample of ONE--you said some things about how your serve curves noticeably to the left and a few other things.

So, to me, statements like that require some backup. Particularly when it is coming from someone with your history.

Now the last time you posted video, you had been going on for ages about how much you have improved since the first video you posted. Now, if that was all, it would be one thing. But a very short time before you posted that video you had made a long post critiquing a video of loop vs block posted by a guy whose technique was pretty solid. And you were saying things in your post to him; things like, "it's okay for a loop from a guy who is OUR LEVEL!!!!!" As though you were anywhere close to as good and as though you had ever looped as many in a row as he did in the video.

So you create this scenario by liking to talk theory and by having a tendency to present yourself as an expert.

I am confident that if you played for a few months with a real coach your level would actually skyrocket. A good coach is great for giving you meaningful reps and helping you change things you didn't even know needed changing.

And unfortunately, by hearing certain technical details like "whip mechanics" on the forum, you end up trying to talk about stuff that I fear, for you, is totally besides the point.

And when you make some odd claim like: "traditional penholders have more trouble returning reverse sidespin with their BH." Based on the fact that you know a player who plays TPBH and he has trouble with your serve. And then you say "a long, fast, reverse pendulum serve." And then you say, "it curves noticeably." Well, since it is rare for a reverse pendulum to be a real long, fast serve, and you have not really demonstrated the serving skills you have claimed to posses, then, it is kind of time to post video.

When I play someone who is my level or better, I will cycle through my serves and test if he has trouble with any of them. If he does, I make a mental note of it. It is interesting how different players will have trouble or be skilled at returning different serves. Those things change player by player.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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test both directions of sidespin on your opponent, not only in placement, but in depth. While you thought it may be hard for penholders to deal with one type of sidespin, every opponent is different and that may just be the side that YOUR brain thinks would be more difficult.
 
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