Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Boogar]

You had problems with his serve, and you lost. Isn't he higher level?

So you lose to every higher rated player? And win against every lower rated?

If it wasnt for his deceptive serve im sure thatd id won pretty convincingly.

 

[Archosaurus]

So you lose to every higher rated player? And win against every lower rated?

If it wasnt for his deceptive serve im sure thatd id won pretty convincingly.

You don't get my point. What if I told you that I lost to a player because of their very spinny forehand loop? Wouldn't you just tell me they're better than I am?

 

[Der_Echte]

Met TTD Member Gene Tuttle at Smash TTC in Sterling, VA. Saw him play Div 2 League, he had his fun vs the diverse crowd of play styles. Fine tune up for the type of east coast TT crowd we have.

I will eat some Spinach like Popeye tonite and get me 1/2 of Popey's 40 winks of sleep and see how the tourney goes. I will cheer/and/or play vs Gene and we see how the TT mayhem in the Capital of our nation shapes up.

 

[NextLevel]

Archo,

Higher level is acquired over a lot of matches. A specific match up or a specific problem with a specific strategy or shot or serve is about the player.

For example, I am relatively weak against slow heavy topspin. I am also relatively weak at returning and reading heavy spin. That doesn't mean I am not at my level. Suppose you found out that I had problems returning short topspin serves to the forehand. You served two of them and I popped them up badly. Would you reserve this strategy until it was deuce in the 5th or would you use it to avoid deuce in the 5th?

Players under 2400 have so many gaping holes in their game that you can exploit if you know exactly what to do and have the shot for it. Don't confuse it with their level. You can be two levels below but if you can execute the winning strategy, you will play them like a higher level player.

Very often when pips players play me, they ask if I am 2200 because of how easily I kill the no spin ball and backspin ball if I read it. Of course there are other weakness in my game that players can target. It is why a good coach can add 100 pts to your tournament playing level as they tell you how to target weaknesses and save you from losses vs coaches who are targeting yours.

 

[Shuki]

Say the blade is 95g mass and the weight distribution is 60/40 front rear.

57g/38g front rear

You add 5g to the rear, let's assume it's to the very rear for simplicity sake.

57g/43g front rear.

43 divided by 100 is 0.43. Your front/rear weight distribution is now 57/43, and your total mass is 100g.

You added 5g to 95, so:

5 divided by 95 is 0.0526 ~

You added about 5.3% more mass, and you gained 3% rear weight distribution. However in reality you will gain less, perhaps more so around 2.3% or so.

Your blade is now heavier, but the rear has more mass and thus more weight when the blade is placed horizontally. The total mass of the blade is now for simplicity sake part of the swing, BUT your head weighs less and is easier to move around.

EDIT: Now I understood what your question was.

If you magically merged the weight in, and the blades were absolutely identical, I guess yeah.

I can imagine that having a purpose-built heavy blade could theoretically perform better than an "identical" homebrew blade with the same mass and weight distribution.

The wood would need to be thicker for one, if it's the same material. Actually it seems very hard to produce a handle-heavy blade that's the same composition as it's head-heavy cousin, without some kind of modifications, if you're gonna keep the middle ply the same thickness. Mass would need to be added into the handle, but if the handle is solid already, it'd complicate things.

Rather than worry about things like this, why not just slap some mass onto the handle with grip tape and nails and try it out? Blade engineering is ****ing difficult.

EDIT 2: You know, adding nails and whatnot into the handle could even potentially increase or maybe even decrease the blade's speed, but that's really pushing it I think. I wonder if anyone's ever made any impact tests on blades with wood handles vs steel handles, for example. I'm thinking that the handle won't really affect the blade face so much, but they ARE kind of binded together so very impractical, drastic changes to the handle might produce a change to the complete package, so to say.

First, two of the same blade and one being a bit thicker isn't what makes it heavier.

Second, I DID add 10 grams with grip tape on the handle.

I don't want to keep typing a novel on the error in the things you've said. Carl answered my question already, you're trying to complicate things with incorrect statements.

 

[Boogar]

You don't get my point. What if I told you that I lost to a player because of their very spinny forehand loop? Wouldn't you just tell me they're better than I am?

You said in your post above that if you can't return a serve of a player he is a higher lvl player.
Now how do you define a higher lvl player, because that's a very hard thing to do. TT is a game of strengths and weaknesses and how to exploit them. For me a higher lvl player is better in most aspects of the game. Not just one or two. Such things are called strengths and are meant to be outplayed. And for that you need tactics which can be another strength. See where I'm getting at?

Now you can say in my case he was higher of a lvl in the deception of serves. Something i had not seen before. My strength against him was the open rally. So his strength put mine at a disadvantage, because his serves finished the point outright. Ofc there were other points to give some examples: His opening loop on backspin was for his rating relatively weak, however his forehand against no spin or topspin was very good. His backhand less. Also his serve returns weren't that good.

So overall it was an even game and closely contested. In the end I lost in the fifth game because I gave away two points on my serve. This made me up my risk on my serve return, which did not work out

Now that i think back there was so much thinking involved, but most was subconscious. Ahh i want to play right now so bad xD

 

[Shuki]

Ehh, I think arch's just in a "mood". Not wanting to put up with shit, feels like arguing and not backing down. We've all had those kind of day/weeks


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[Cornel]

Again using a post to sum up what has happened throughout the week.

Monday - my feet were more lively than the sponge of tenergy. Don't remember anything else, just the fact that I felt great because my feet were working like a swiss watch.

Wednesday - I arrived at the club at the same time as a player who is playing higher level mostly because of his serves. There was no one else he could play so I had a chance to play him. He had just changed his rubbers, so the initial stage of the warm-up wasn't too productive - like pretty much any other time, because he doesn't like to warm up too much and especially this time he was more testing what he could do with the new rubber and was making fast loops that I couldn't return at that stage. I am a player that needs more time to feel the ball properly. He asked very fast to begin the match, but this time I insisted to have more warm up in order to feel the ball - I need a good feeling of the ball very badly when I play him in order to return his serves. Then we began the match. In all the matches I've ever played against him I took 2 sets in total. This time the beginning was also looking quite bad - first 2 games were lost at 2 and 5. But my coach was watching the game and he pointed that I was too desperate to begin the attack as soon as possible and also to finish the point rapidly. More patience, more safety and willingness to rally - that was exactly what I needed. Thanks to this insight of my coach I managed to turn the game around 3-2 in my favour. But we didn't finish here. If I would've lost 0-3 it was very probable that the dispute would've been over. My opponent couldn't accept a loss so he was looking to finish the match as the winner. But I went up 5-2 and after this I always had a lead between 1 and 3 games. Then another man came and he was looking to play my opponent. We decided that we end the dispute when someone reaches 10 games and then he goes to play that man. I managed to win 10-8, but in the end it was really getting harder, and I was having more trouble staying ahead.

The fact that I won got interested the another man(he is generally higher level than me) so we agreed that we play a little later. Before this I played him only once, but back then I couldn't even get into decent rallies against him, got swept in 3 straight. That day I also lost 8-3, but the main number here is "3", because this means I got significantly closer to him. Wednesday was a good day and it always feels good when higher level players get interested to play against you.

Friday - I felt a little more tired on Friday, my legs were not as good as the previous days, but I still had a good day. Managed to beat a player I usually lose to and had an intense game with another one : first a loss in 5 sets then I won in 3. Not going 100% on all shots and preparing for rallies definitely had benefits. But still there is a player I don't manage to win against even if we play reasonably often. I really need to analize why I am losing against him and what should I do in order to finally win.

Today I was an umpire at a tournament and watched some high level play. That is definitely another good TT-related thing to do.

I'm terribly sorry for this long post.

 

[Der_Echte]

Did WDCTT Giant Round Robin with Gene. I think he made B Group, I won my one qual match and made A Group. Haha, I was way outclassed, 1700s players who are 2200 and nearly won the whole thing. I will be under 1900 after this is over.

Gene fought and got mixed results. He really wants to improve playing with a lead.

So what did we do when tourney was over, have Gene serve with an 8-4 lead and play a 5 game match with him up 8-4 each game. A good way to practice playing with a lead.

 

[Der_Echte]

Gene came out to my club last night, and I couldn't get there in time to pay his league fee. Maybe I can mail him a Chili's gift card for a good dinner.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Again using a post to sum up what has happened throughout the week.

Monday - my feet were more lively than the sponge of tenergy. Don't remember anything else, just the fact that I felt great because my feet were working like a swiss watch.

Wednesday - I arrived at the club at the same time as a player who is playing higher level mostly because of his serves. There was no one else he could play so I had a chance to play him. He had just changed his rubbers, so the initial stage of the warm-up wasn't too productive - like pretty much any other time, because he doesn't like to warm up too much and especially this time he was more testing what he could do with the new rubber and was making fast loops that I couldn't return at that stage. I am a player that needs more time to feel the ball properly. He asked very fast to begin the match, but this time I insisted to have more warm up in order to feel the ball - I need a good feeling of the ball very badly when I play him in order to return his serves. Then we began the match. In all the matches I've ever played against him I took 2 sets in total. This time the beginning was also looking quite bad - first 2 games were lost at 2 and 5. But my coach was watching the game and he pointed that I was too desperate to begin the attack as soon as possible and also to finish the point rapidly. More patience, more safety and willingness to rally - that was exactly what I needed. Thanks to this insight of my coach I managed to turn the game around 3-2 in my favour. But we didn't finish here. If I would've lost 0-3 it was very probable that the dispute would've been over. My opponent couldn't accept a loss so he was looking to finish the match as the winner. But I went up 5-2 and after this I always had a lead between 1 and 3 games. Then another man came and he was looking to play my opponent. We decided that we end the dispute when someone reaches 10 games and then he goes to play that man. I managed to win 10-8, but in the end it was really getting harder, and I was having more trouble staying ahead.

The fact that I won got interested the another man(he is generally higher level than me) so we agreed that we play a little later. Before this I played him only once, but back then I couldn't even get into decent rallies against him, got swept in 3 straight. That day I also lost 8-3, but the main number here is "3", because this means I got significantly closer to him. Wednesday was a good day and it always feels good when higher level players get interested to play against you.

Friday - I felt a little more tired on Friday, my legs were not as good as the previous days, but I still had a good day. Managed to beat a player I usually lose to and had an intense game with another one : first a loss in 5 sets then I won in 3. Not going 100% on all shots and preparing for rallies definitely had benefits. But still there is a player I don't manage to win against even if we play reasonably often. I really need to analize why I am losing against him and what should I do in order to finally win.

Today I was an umpire at a tournament and watched some high level play. That is definitely another good TT-related thing to do.

I'm terribly sorry for this long post.

Carl, Der and TTD CCers,

May I get a ruling?

Am I the most long-winded member or is Cornel ?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Gene came out to my club last night, and I couldn't get there in time to pay his league fee. Maybe I can mail him a Chili's gift card for a good dinner.

You are a good egg Charlie Brown!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

So what did we do when tourney was over, have Gene serve with an 8-4 lead and play a 5 game match with him up 8-4 each game. A good way to practice playing with a lead.

Good training!

Recent match I was up 7-1. Guess what? Lost 11-9

LOL at me

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Cornel,

Record to video your matches with the player who is close to you but you never beat. Watching video is a great tool in improving one's game

Congrats on the first player and good showing on the 2nd player!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Better luck next time Gene, with the secret spy training you received from Der, you will Rambo your opponents!

 

[NextLevel]

Ehh, I think arch's just in a "mood". Not wanting to put up with shit, feels like arguing and not backing down. We've all had those kind of day/weeks


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The thing is that Archo has a point - he is just making it really badly. You can't complain about what makes a player's level his level. If a player is at his level because he has tricky serves and you struggle with them, some people use that to say that the player's level is not high - it is *just* his serves. But serves are part of the game.

But players at most lower levels have very unbalanced games especially in places that are not coaching factories. Therefore, if you know what to target and target it, you can make them look lower level if you have the tools.

 

[Der_Echte]

Carl, Der and TTD CCers,

May I get a ruling?

Am I the most long-winded member or is Cornel ?

Neither of you are in my long-winded level.

Cornel's post is long, but not long-winded. He says a lot of information as he saw it.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Neither of you are in my long-winded level.

Cornel's post is long, but not long-winded. He says a lot of information as he saw it.

And Cornel's post is not nearly as long as some of mine or OldSchool's. How Der_ makes it look like his posts aren't as long as they are is he will make 5 posts in a row. When you link them together, then they are long. Hahahaha.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

 

[Liten]

As my main banda is 100grams i cut my rubbers down on both sides, making it easy to switch sides playing penhold. Keeps the overall weight down and the bat balanced.

Last club-session was way better than the first. Mixing up 6-7 short servevariations with the ocational long fast one kept most of the opponents on their toes.. still lost more than I won, but the initial domination on their part was gone. (Exept for the oldie in the group.. Senior citicen and kicking everybodys ass.. guys 30-40 years younger, division 4 players, screeming from the top of their loungs, not even close to beating him.. horrible for your selfasteem..
I love every second of playing him. The amount of spin he sends back is unpresidented in my life.. [emoji28]

 

[Cornel]

Cornel,

Record to video your matches with the player who is close to you but you never beat. Watching video is a great tool in improving one's game

Congrats on the first player and good showing on the 2nd player!

I am aware of the benefits recording a match has. But the situation is that people here usually don't like to be recorded., Nevertheless, if my blind self analysis won't be efficient I will do it someday.

First of all let's say that I don't really know how close I really am to him. I've taken my first set quite some time ago, I've had matches lost in the decider, I've had match balls, but still, never a win. He loses to the serve-man most of the times and also the other two players I've played on Friday also cause him quite some trouble, managing to win sometimes.

I am going to analyze what is obvious for now. First of all, he relies on his heavy backspin serves and heavy pushes. Both are usually long but if I am not in the ideal position and don't use my whole body to lift that backspin it will end in the net. Because this part of the game is slower, my feet just are not in mood to work as they do versus an all-out attack player. So here is the first target - getting into position faster(this also includes reading faster where the pushes will land) and getting past the pushing/chopping game. Secondly, his FH loop isn't too fast but so spinny that I don't manage to keep it on the table most of the times. This also happens because these loops have good placement. So, having the ability to block them will be a great plus. Should definitely try to counterhit them a few times, but I have doubts this is going to bring some result. Again, my feet should be ready to work. There are also some other things to figure out against him but these are the two major ones, that I believe eliminating should make me a lot more comfortable to play against this player. So, not using my full abilities at 100% is my main problem atm.