Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[UpSideDownCarl]

There is another name for this kind of table: OLD.

There is a test to determine if a table is dead. You place a ball between your racket and the table and press down gently but firmly. If you can take the ball with your thumb and index finger and pull gently and the ball slides on the table, technically, it is time for a new table.


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[Boogar]

You are right, Cardio definitely helps. What it does essentially is that your body gets used to exertion and you can think more when you are less tired. However, from my experience, along with Cardio you will still need multi ball or do cardio with side step drills , essentially the traditional cardio does not do a as much as you would think to get your body used to side steps ... my experience ...

What i learned in my trainer seminar week was that you shouldn't do multi ball for more than 20 balls and not more than 8 seconds, because then your muscles would produce lactic acid and that's a bad thing for us table tennis players.

Concerning cardio: cardio isn't of use in one or two matches. It get's important if you play for a whole day or have training camp for a week. If you cardio is bad your condition will get worse over a day of playing and in a training's camp you will be too tired after 3-4 days and your body wont learn anymore.

 

[Boogar]

There is another name for this kind of table: OLD.

There is a test to determine if a table is dead. You place a ball between your racket and the table and press down gently but firmly. If you can take the ball with your thumb and index finger and pull gently and the ball slides on the table, technically, it is time for a new table.


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Oh i gotta try that! I think the tables at our club are more than dead...

I liked playing on tables in other clubs so much more, and I didn't know why :O Maybe that's the reason!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Oh i gotta try that! I think the tables at our club are more than dead...

I liked playing on tables in other clubs so much more, and I didn't know why :O Maybe that's the reason!

Sadly, in a club, after a year to a year and a half of heavy use, usually a table is ready be replaced or resurfaced. You can still play on them but they are kind of like a 3 month old sheet of Tenergy. 6 month Tenergy is like 3 year old table, etc. at a certain point it will need to be changed.


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[Shuki]

So what I learned is just as my tenergy does my table dies. I poured Falco all over all the tables at the club. Our club members will be so happy when they find out I boosted the tables and they're like new again! They will surely praise me


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[Shuki]

Things went terribly wrong. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT boost your tables.


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[ttmonster]

@Boogar : Did they say that any given multiball drill should not last beyond 20 balls or 8 seconds whichever is more ? or this is the total duration of multiball in a training session ... if its the latter somebody needs to call Liu Guoliang

What i learned in my trainer seminar week was that you shouldn't do multi ball for more than 20 balls and not more than 8 seconds, because then your muscles would produce lactic acid and that's a bad thing for us table tennis players.

Concerning cardio: cardio isn't of use in one or two matches. It get's important if you play for a whole day or have training camp for a week. If you cardio is bad your condition will get worse over a day of playing and in a training's camp you will be too tired after 3-4 days and your body wont learn anymore.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

@Boogar : Did they say that any given multiball drill should not last beyond 20 balls or 8 seconds whichever is more ? or this is the total duration of multiball in a training session ... if its the latter somebody needs to call Liu Guoliang

Yes, that sounds very fishy to me...

 

[Der_Echte]

My Korean coach never got THAT Memo...

 

[Shuki]

short multiballs? why do multiball then...

the point of multiball is to get lots or reps even when your energy supply is low, learning to still do the drill when you're at your limit.

 

[ttmonster]

Shuki , thats what our chinese coaches in US do ... they tend to feed the multiball at the end of the session , but there could be different objectives. I will wait hear what Boogar learnt at the seminar ...

short multiballs? why do multiball then...

the point of multiball is to get lots or reps even when your energy supply is low, learning to still do the drill when you're at your limit.

 

[Der_Echte]

Shuki, you would LOVE a 3 month working vacation in Korea, you got hte best of everything including subway and TT Hijinks. There are a few places where there are Englsih speaking TT players there, not many, but sum.

No matter where you parachute, if you go to a training club, you will get smoked so bad you won't believe it, yet you would LUV it... and keep coming back.

 

[Boogar]

When you use you muscles they produce lactic acid as a side product, at the start it gets removed by oxygen. However after some time (around 8 seconds) there isn't enough oxygen anymore so the lactic acid stays in your muscles and you will observe a drastic decrease in performance. So doing multi ball for more than 8 seconds isn't realistic.
It shouldn't last longer than 8 seconds. We play table tennis and don't do 400 meter sprints. The average rally is way under 8 seconds.
You can do more than that as a kind of will power training, but shouldn't do it too much or only at the end of a training session if the trainee still has enough energy.

 

[Shuki]

When you use you muscles they produce lactic acid as a side product, at the start it gets removed by oxygen. However after some time (around 8 seconds) there isn't enough oxygen anymore so the lactic acid stays in your muscles and you will observe a drastic decrease in performance. So doing multi ball for more than 8 seconds isn't realistic.
It shouldn't last longer than 8 seconds. We play table tennis and don't do 400 meter sprints. The average rally is way under 8 seconds.
You can do more than that as a kind of will power training, but shouldn't do it too much or only at the end of a training session if the trainee still has enough energy.

wouldn't breaking the muscles down more be more helpful? As they rebuild stronger. Also I'm honestly really curious about studies on this as I've not heard it before. Is it 8 seconds of constant use? If so, in multiball it's not constant use. we should be contracting the muscles over and over, not contracting constantly for 8 seconds.

 

[Boogar]

wouldn't breaking the muscles down more be more helpful? As they rebuild stronger. Also I'm honestly really curious about studies on this as I've not heard it before. Is it 8 seconds of constant use? If so, in multiball it's not constant use. we should be contracting the muscles over and over, not contracting constantly for 8 seconds.

I think this kind of break down isn't what you want as a table tennis player.
I'm not sure about how the 8 seconds get put together, i think with constant use id be even less. And i guess it differs from shot to shot. 8 seconds is just an average.

 

[Shuki]

This one is rough for me to believe. Haven't heard anything like this in my anatomy or physiology classes. Think I'd like to talk to my professor about this (I'm a t.a. For my physiology prof this semester).

Maybe you're right, although something feels off. Also as we condition our bodies more and more, our respiratory system should be able to do more for our muscles with less oxygen.


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[Ilia Minkin]

When you use you muscles they produce lactic acid as a side product, at the start it gets removed by oxygen. However after some time (around 8 seconds) there isn't enough oxygen anymore so the lactic acid stays in your muscles and you will observe a drastic decrease in performance. So doing multi ball for more than 8 seconds isn't realistic.
It shouldn't last longer than 8 seconds.

I think that it depends on the intensity. I agree that the maximum intensity will exhaust anybody within 8 seconds. But not all multiball is done at maximum intensity. If you just work on your strokes concentrating on your technique, then most people can do it for way longer that 8 seconds without a large drop of performance.

 

[Archosaurus]

Probably what Boogar is talking about is taking short breaks between 8 seconds or so.

If you look at the Chinese, they don't go all out for minutes. They hit 10 - 20 balls, rest a few seconds, hit 10 - 20 balls etc.

Probably the logic is that if you do one round of multiball for too long, your muscles train more towards endurance and less towards explosive strength, and that coupled with your footwork and stroke form going down results in inefficient training overall.

Bear in mind that this is for a 3 - 6 hour training day, where it is very difficult to keep strict form throughout the whole day, even without overworking the athlete. If we are used to doing multiball for 15 minutes at the end of the session and talking based on that, we'd be talking about an entirely different thing. So I think Boogar's claim has some sense to it.

 

[Shuki]

I'm imagining this applies to a constant strain on muscles, like the way ma long has to hold his push ups on his fingers for durations of time to strengthen his feminine fingers. Or like when you try to hold a weight to your side for a given amount of time.

Plus you said 8 seconds is the average. Does this mean some outliers should only be doing 4 or 5 seconds?

And an average allows us to assume the standard deviation is the same in both directions. Assuming that there's a super rare case that someone can only do 2 seconds and get good training out of it, then 14 seconds would be the MOST anyone could get good training out of, even at the highest level.

I think there's something lost in translation with the study done on this. Like how people think balding comes from the mothers side of the family.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Sorry guys. I am sure the 8 second thing was given with the coaching certification to try and make sure that you are safe with your students. But 8 seconds is not accurate and man that is a short amount of time, even in the fastest TT drill:

Time that. I am confident. That is more than 8 seconds. In fact it is about 35 seconds.

Also, stop the video at about the 11 second mark to know what 8 seconds of multiball is.

If this 8 second rule was accurate running the 100, 200 and 400 meter sprints would all be bad for you. So would any run longer.

Cardio training is about giving you the endurance to do an act longer and longer. I have been fed multiball by Michael Landers for 4 straight buckets that contained a gross of balls each. I guarantee that it took longer than 8 seconds, 1 minute, 3 minutes. It was probably about 5-6 min. At the end Mike was happy when I had to go for my asthma inhaler and said: "that's the first time I've ever seen you out of breath and need that thing!" He was happy he had made me work hard.

Right now, I am not in that shape because I actually don't have much time to work out or play TT. But back then I would do my shadow drill practice for 1 hour straight going as hard and fast as I could for as long. And I would mix in ladder drills and lateral sprints and two different treadmill workouts.

The first treadmill workout was switching from going forward, going lateral, going backwards, going lateral the other way and then reversing the direction.

The second treadmill workout was starting at a decent pace like a 6 on the treadmill and then spiking the speed up to 8 for a minute and then back to 6; then spiking to 9 for a minute, then back to 6; then up to 9.5 and back to 6. Then when I got it to 10, after the first few times at 10, I tried to push the length at full speed till I could stay at 10 for almost 2 min. Then you wind down the speed. I can't remember how many miles per minute 10 is. But it is fast.

And I guarantee that if you do cardio like what I am describing, 8 seconds of multiball isn't enough. Regardless of what intensity.

With cardio workouts like the ones I mentioned, you do have to look out for your heart rate. Which also means you have to take your time to get in the kind of shape where you can do that kind of workout.

But if your heart rate stays in a good target range, that work is fine for you.


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