Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[OldschoolPenholder]

OH MY GUOYUEHUA! (LOL at my table tennis geek version of OMG

"Berg" plays at my club now from time to time! When i joined my current club, I was a fish out of water. Only "M2" knew me (2300 SH, we went to the same college and played a few times together back in late 1980's). So one night, I'm playing and i hear someone yell and i thought i recognize that voice somehow... and the way he yelled. I looked and saw Berg and later when he was free I intro'd myself to him asking if he played at the NYC Chinatown 'firehouse'... he said yes, then he recalled me playing chess at a tournament where he saw me. We caught up and reminisced.

I've played Berg 3-4x... he won all the matches... he has, for me at least, excellent ball control... is a lefty which throws players off a little, and uses Anti on his BH. I hate junk rubber!

He told me his rating peaked at 2000 some years ago. Recently i saw him beat a young 2000+ kid who was a SH power looper (that kid demolished me - i couldn't return some of his serves, his loops were too fast for my old man reflexes ... we had a good warmup though) but Berg killed that kid.

My last match with Berg, i lost 3-2, he commented that i may have a chance next time lol... speaking of which, i should play him soon. we both joke around and i seem to be the only one who gets his humor LOL

 

[Archosaurus]

NL, is that really the play of a 1600 player? Your play honestly doesn't look that threatening, and even I can see weaknesses that I would exploit, and that I've exploited in people who play similarly. One of the better players I've known plays nigh exactly like you do in the video, it's uncanny. I don't know if I could beat your past self, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get smoked, as the supposed level difference suggests. I'd estimated myself to be around 1200's, 1300's based on hearing that 1600 level players generally have solid consistency and very high spin.

Are you just putting a ton of spin and deception in the strokes that I don't see, or something? EDIT: Or perhaps, is your opponent higher level than you and it distorts everything?

You've come far, at least. It'd be interesting to see a match between your current self and your past self. You'd absolutely destroy him, err, yourself!

 

[NextLevel]

NL, is that really the play of a 1600 player? Your play honestly doesn't look that threatening, and even I can see weaknesses that I would exploit, and that I've exploited in people who play similarly. One of the better players I've known plays nigh exactly like you do in the video, it's uncanny. I don't know if I could beat your past self, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get smoked, as the supposed level difference suggests. I'd estimated myself to be around 1200's, 1300's based on hearing that 1600 level players generally have solid consistency and very high spin.

Are you just putting a ton of spin and deception in the strokes that I don't see, or something? EDIT: Or perhaps, is your opponent higher level than you and it distorts everything?

You've come far, at least. It'd be interesting to see a match between your current self and your past self. You'd absolutely destroy him, err, yourself!

Mark Berg is 1800 and this was my first victory vs an 1800 player - before this tournament, I was about 1400-1500 I think, but I beat two 1800 players at this tournament.

And no, my play is not threatening to you but I knew how to block and hit balls from 2000 players because I hit with them. A lot of this game is mental and about what you have experienced and seen, not just about what you think you can do. That's why I tell people to get out to a club and see whether their imagination matches reality. You may be 1800 for all I know but I earned my rating with battle scars, not by people estimating what they thought I was by looking at my strokes, which would always underrate me if you have seen any threads on this forum - even my best strokes always look worse than my playing level. Mark Berg for example is 1800+ and has been over 2000 - does his game look threatening to you?

 

[Archosaurus]

Mark Berg is 1800 and this was my first victory vs an 1800 player - before this tournament, I was about 1400-1500 I think, but I beat two 1800 players at this tournament.

And no, my play is not threatening to you but I knew how to block and hit balls from 2000 players because I hit with them. A lot of this game is mental and about what you have experienced and seen, not just about what you think you can do. That's why I tell people to get out to a club and see whether their imagination matches reality. You may be 1800 for all I know but I earned my rating with battle scars, not by people estimating what they thought I was by looking at my strokes, which would always underrate me if you have seen any threads on this forum - even my best strokes always look worse than my playing level. Mark Berg for example is 1800+ and has been over 2000 - does his game look threatening to you?

That explains it. The experience in playing much higher level players meant that you could whoop people around your level. I suspected that you'd play much better against someone a bit closer to your level.

Well, here's the thing. I had no idea what Berg's level was when I watched the video, but I could tell it was overall higher. He seemed more in control.

Your current strokes also do look like 2000 level strokes, maybe more. Perhaps you can't make the distinction so well because you're used to the spin and speed level and you're used to your strokes, but I'm pretty sure I'd whiff past the ball the first few times I'd try to return your shots. They're eons apart from the kind of pressure that your 1600 strokes produce, in all of your strokes. You're not predictable either, but you are in your 1600 video.

I'm not insulting your play, I'm just somewhat puzzled.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Mark Berg for example is 1800+ and has been over 2000 - does his game look threatening to you?

Having played Mark Berg and watching him play, I will attest to the fact that Mark's game DOESN'T look threatening BUT he knows how to use his Anti and has great ball control ... he will move opponents side to side and disrupt player's rhythm, he will pick his spots on when to attack.

 

[Archosaurus]

Having played Mark Berg and watching him play, I will attest to the fact that Mark's game DOESN'T look threatening BUT he knows how to use his Anti and has great ball control ... he will move opponents side to side and disrupt player's rhythm, he will pick his spots on when to attack.

It doesn't look threatening, but I'd HATE to play against it just looking at all the nets and outs that NL did in the video. He's way better than he looks.

I'd much rather take on an impressive looking topspin game than a pip game that keeps you guessing, and makes you look real bad.

 

[NextLevel]

That explains it. The experience in playing much higher level players meant that you could whoop people around your level. I suspected that you'd play much better against someone a bit closer to your level.

Well, here's the thing. I had no idea what Berg's level was when I watched the video, but I could tell it was overall higher. He seemed more in control.

Your current strokes also do look like 2000 level strokes, maybe more. Perhaps you can't make the distinction so well because you're used to the spin and speed level and you're used to your strokes, but I'm pretty sure I'd whiff past the ball the first few times I'd try to return your shots. They're eons apart from the kind of pressure that your 1600 strokes produce, in all of your strokes. You're not predictable either, but you are in your 1600 video.

I'm not insulting your play, I'm just somewhat puzzled.

I can make the distinction. My point is how the distinction is made can be superficial. What would you estimate the ratings of these players as:

 

[Archosaurus]

NL, I would have to say, somewhat higher than me for the kid. His serves and shots are similar to mine it looks like, but he is slightly better I'd say. His game is overall tighter, but his spin and speed doesn't seem to be so much higher than mine to warrant a huge difference. I think serves are more or less even, but I'd really need to see more. I don't think I could beat him, but it just depends on how good he really is, and I can't tell that from the video. If he keeps hitting the ball predictably with his conventional technique, or keeps missing, I think I could take him to 7 at least.

For you, well, your short game is much better than mine, and his. Your strokes are much more threatening, even if you might be the same level as in the other video. I think you just know how to play against his type a lot better. I'd get smoked.

 

[NextLevel]

NL, I would have to say, somewhat higher than me for the kid. His serves and shots are similar to mine it looks like, but he is slightly better I'd say. His game is overall tighter, but his spin and speed doesn't seem to be so much higher than mine to warrant a huge difference. I think serves are more or less even, but I'd really need to see more. I don't think I could beat him, but it just depends on how good he really is, and I can't tell that from the video. If he keeps hitting the ball predictably with his conventional technique, or keeps missing, I think I could take him to 7 at least.

For you, well, your short game is much better than mine, and his. Your strokes are much more threatening, even if you might be the same level as in the other video. I think you just know how to play against his type a lot better. I'd get smoked.

The kid and I were both rated about 1900-2050 in the Lily TTC league at that time. Does that help, Archosaurus? This was two years ago. Back then, I was largely a blocker so it simplified my game much more. I probably was the same strength/rating then that I am now. My game was just much more awkward to read and had a lower ceiling in terms of players I could beat.

My point is that people could see me play now and say I was light years ahead of that guy in the video who mostly pushed and blocked. But we are both the same person with similar ratings two years apart. I just rebuilt my game almost completely after I broke 2000 to risk doing things I didn't do before. But it is possible to see me in that video and say I have no skills other than good touch. At least people used to tell me that all the time.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

One of the things to understand about table tennis is that sometimes looks can be deceiving. Sometimes stuff that looks like nothing can be decently high level play. And sometimes stuff that looks like high level play can, in actuality, be low level.

How often do we see it where one person wins the warm up and gets their head handed to them in the match.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

 

[Archosaurus]

I understand the point being made. I'm not trying to claim that I WOULDN'T lose on just game quality alone, because there's at the very least two levels or so of a gap. However, I can read spin pretty well, and I can serve pretty well. If I got the ball over the net on serve return and just served well, I could get in a rally and try my best against the kid. Maybe even get one or two points off my actual own play, if I'm really on fire.

Against NL, I think I'd just pop up everything in the short play and not get past the pity point.

 

[laistrogian]

One of the things to understand about table tennis is that sometimes looks can be deceiving. Sometimes stuff that looks like nothing can be decently high level play. And sometimes stuff that looks like high level play can, in actuality, be low level.

How often do we see it where one person wins the warm up and gets their head handed to them in the match.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

This. A lot of us are used to watching top 10 players playing with shortened match form that all we see are great rallies. I was watching a clip of 2500 players having a match. It looks 'eh' but I know the level they are playing are way above my own.

Also, I really hate how ITTF have really terrible streaming and recording setup. IMO, 60fps should be a norm for ITTF recording

 

[NextLevel]

One of the things to understand about table tennis is that sometimes looks can be deceiving. Sometimes stuff that looks like nothing can be decently high level play. And sometimes stuff that looks like high level play can, in actuality, be low level.

How often do we see it where one person wins the warm up and gets their head handed to them in the match.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

Exhibit A:

 

[Boogar]

Dammit! I forgot to record my league matches today!

I had my second game in the 4. league. We lost 2:8 but i won two matches against much higher rated players. Two of them were rated around 900 and one 1000 in Swiss rating points which translates to roughly 1700 and 1800 usa tt points.

I lost against one of the 1700 guys who used LP on the backhand and had a very deadly forehand, quiet artistic. Unfortunately my teammates lost all their games and the doubles as well :-/

After the game we went to a pub and drank a few and had a good chat about tt It was very interesting as they have been playing for around 30 years each

Edit: The next league match is going to be on the 19.10. Heaps of time for me to practice. Maybe i can fill the space with a tournament... and I d better not forget to record the next matches dammn....

 

[Archosaurus]

Damnit Boogar, if this keeps up, you're gonna be nearing 2000's soon. Don't give Ma Long a hard time in Tokyo.

 

[Boogar]

Damnit Boogar, if this keeps up, you're gonna be nearing 2000's soon. Don't give Ma Long a hard time in Tokyo.

If only

The highlight of the day was the compliment i got from one of the older players. He said to me that he very much enjoyed watching me play. And that I was using a lot of spin
Also he mentioned that I seem to have potential to play in the higher leagues. Very nice of him and made my day.

 

[Der_Echte]

This one is for DerEchte - it is an example of why it is good to have a good backspin serve vs. long pips players.

I can say with confidence that very early showing your opponent that your heavy underspin is truly heavy makes your later spin variations so much more effective.

When an LP player uses hiz LPs to receive a serve and still nets the ball, that is a glorious moment. Later in the match when he thinks it is heavy under and he pokes it deep, you now have huge eyes for a chance to rip one by him and rip him a new one.

 

[NextLevel]

If only

The highlight of the day was the compliment i got from one of the older players. He said to me that he very much enjoyed watching me play. And that I was using a lot of spin
Also he mentioned that I seem to have potential to play in the higher leagues. Very nice of him and made my day.

I could have told you that Boogar. USATT 2000+ is easily in your future if you stick with it. You just need to continue to get the right instruction.

 

[NextLevel]

I know i don't serve enough nospin, but old man memory, i'm fixated on serving the spinny unreturnable serves (think ttmonster was the one who mentioned it). Thank you for the 'refocus' ... will start working the nospin. Also ditto on the short... other partners, i would serve short, but somehow have it in my head to serve long and serve spin to K. So tired monday, not thinking clearly to begin with LOl

Spinny serves are very good and important, but strategy and deception are even more important. What you use the spinny serve, especially if short, to do is to establish a few things. For example, in a match I didn't record today, I established my heavy backspin serve to the backhand. Then sometimes, I served fast side backspin and if the returner is in a rush to loop the ball, the final break at the end of the serve leads him to mistime the ball. Or like in the match against the long pips blocker, I served heavy backspin and he put my first 4 serves into the net. Later in the match, when I felt I needed a free point, I served no spin and he would hit that ball right off the table.

Since your serves had already established they could back him off the table, it was time to serve a few (or even more than a few, given his preference to stay off the table) short to bring him in. It could be anything as long as you keep it low enough that when he gets late to the ball, he has to lift it over the net. You could even serve slow short sidespin or topspin if you have those serves and again, him coming in has to read it and have a good flick or you will just smash the return.

Spin is a weapon, not an end in itself. Use heavy spin and good placement to establish certain things when serving. Then pull the rug out of the bottom of your opponent for some free points.

 

[laistrogian]

Had a practice session with my college club today and the person in charge of coaching pointed to me that I need to bring my body more forward and be more on my toes. This is one of those nice things that you get when you have a coach that watches over your drill.

There's also a new 2600 guy in the club that will be helping with practice. With practice like this twice a week and the additional practice I do with my friends, I can see myself getting better way quicker