Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[OldschoolPenholder]

Sir,

Words fail. However, I only have 2 for you: THANK YOU!

Very truly yours,

~osph

Spinny serves are very good and important, but strategy and deception are even more important. What you use the spinny serve, especially if short, to do is to establish a few things. For example, in a match I didn't record today, I established my heavy backspin serve to the backhand. Then sometimes, I served fast side backspin and if the returner is in a rush to loop the ball, the final break at the end of the serve leads him to mistime the ball. Or like in the match against the long pips blocker, I served heavy backspin and he put my first 4 serves into the net. Later in the match, when I felt I needed a free point, I served no spin and he would hit that ball right off the table.

Since your serves had already established they could back him off the table, it was time to serve a few (or even more than a few, given his preference to stay off the table) short to bring him in. It could be anything as long as you keep it low enough that when he gets late to the ball, he has to lift it over the net. You could even serve slow short sidespin or topspin if you have those serves and again, him coming in has to read it and have a good flick or you will just smash the return.

Spin is a weapon, not an end in itself. Use heavy spin and good placement to establish certain things when serving. Then pull the rug out of the bottom of your opponent for some free points.

 

[Archosaurus]

If you serve heavy short backspin, then heavy short topspin a few serves later, will players of a good standard really just out the ball? Of course, this is assuming the serve isn't really high level and well disguised: just a variation of the same movement.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Played a club player last night, lost to him last week, illegal serves, lost 3 straight last wk, lost 3-1 last night. Didn't call him on the illegal serves. Despite losing the match, i was able to 2nd loop many of his illegal sidespin serves ... happy about that.

The father of the special needs kid wanted me to hit with him, so i waited at his table, but he tired and I hit next for B. I've played B. before and beat him... Monday or last week, I blocked for him to work his loops. Did so again last night.

Arm/shoulder feeling something... perhaps playing too much ... so called it an early night.

Back tonight.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Tried posting a pic of my racket via phone and wacky, wouldn't post. Then tried copying and pasting and wacky formatting - characters didn't display.

Will repost after I sort it out.

 

[NextLevel]

If you serve heavy short backspin, then heavy short topspin a few serves later, will players of a good standard really just out the ball? Of course, this is assuming the serve isn't really high level and well disguised: just a variation of the same movement.

It really depends on the opponent's ability to read and adapt. What I will say is that backspin and no spin variations are just fundamentally hard to read unless you see the contact and take a good look at the ball. At the lower levels, if you have a decent backspin serve, most people will at least pop up or give you a light return on your no spin serve.

Topspin vs backspin (assuming you are disguising with sidespin) requires real skill to disguise and the heavier the topspin, the harder it is to keep low and short. I posted some video on my channel of my pendulum serve practice where I mostly alternated between backspin and topspin. You will see that I haven't yet been able to get similar depth on both serves and the topspin ones come deeper or bounce higher usually.

But you can see that I am working really hard on disguising them and while if I served them to you over the course of a match, you might start picking up cues, most U1800 players who face that precise version often net the backspin and the pop up the occasional topspin really badly because they aren't looking closely enough. Some players successfully treat both balls as sidespin so I am working on my technique to get the topspin heavier and more deceptive.

What I am trying to do more of nowadays is mixed short and long serve practice as I am often unable to produce a quality serve using a serve that I am not using throughout a match. My pendulum, backspin and backhand serves are fairly well grooved but still suffer in quality when I vary them. My reverse and punch are fairly hopeless and my backhand reverse is a wildcard. This needs to change for the better.

 

[NextLevel]

If you serve heavy short backspin, then heavy short topspin a few serves later, will players of a good standard really just out the ball? Of course, this is assuming the serve isn't really high level and well disguised: just a variation of the same movement.

A lot of stuff also depends on the heaviness of the backspin and how similar the serves look. DerEchte has a really nasty combination of similar looking serves that are all heavier than they seem to be. I still can't read his topspin serve for the life of me and you can see it in my matches when I play him that I am just fighting to get the ball on the table because of that and I often net his backspin serve.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

SHHHH! this is a secret! don't let Carl know! Need to counter his magic wands when next we are able to hook up.

Simplified Chinese characters with Pinyin transliteration: literally translates to something like "100 tries, 100 hits" and taken to mean "Never miss."

Wrote it on with a sharpie marker...

Got the idea from Filipino Martial Arts - where the warriors defending their homeland against invaders, as well as death matches vs each other - they used 'anting anting' (a type of magic charm, like a rabbit's foot or horseshoe, sometimes it's a physical item, sometimes it's an inscription... one of the most famous Filipino martial arts masters, Antonio Ilustrisimo, never lost a death match... had his anting anting tattooed on his chest... he believed that was why he never lost a death match... also he was highly skilled.

It helped last night vs the club player with illegal serves... he kept serving heavy sidespin to my forehand and i was able to 2nd ball loop more than i would've in the past. LOL at me!!!


For the record... this is the back of the handle... started filing it down a little... not as grooved as i would like... that avalox logo is in the way slightly ... my old racket's handle was well-grooved and facilitated my transitions from FH to BH

LOLOLOL at this post and at me!!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

When I played OSPH, I did a lot of mixing backspin and no spin. I ended up with a lot of net balls and float balls.

I mostly serve backspin and mix other spins in as fits the opponent. If giving slightly less spin gives me a push that is 1 inch higher, that is really all I need. But in serving backspin after backspin ball, I have one topspin serve that guys as high as 2000-2100 will misread the first few times and pop up HIGH.

I have another topspin serve that has much more topspin but it isn't as effective on higher level players because it is much easier to see.

So, a lot of this is about how you mix your serves in and your ability to explore, search out and find vulnerabilities in your opponent's receive game.

For me, when I serve in a match, most of what I am looking for is which serves will cause my opponent to give me balls I can use for my third ball attack.

If someone is nice enough to give me long pushes, I will be happy. But if I can get an opponent to flip, I can use that for my third ball attack these days too. Unless of course their flip is pretty good. But, I used to hate when my opponent flipped. Because doing something with those weird flips was not comfortable for me. These days if I can get someone who likes to flip to do a mediocre flip, that is a good third ball to T off on.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Btw: last Sunday I got to train with Mark Croitoroo again. I learn so much every time I get to hang out with him. He is great at teaching conceptual content.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

 

[JeffM]

Had a bit of free time today as my 1 week break began. Made a video off my last comp.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

But if I can get an opponent to flip, I can use that for my third ball attack these days too. Unless of course their flip is pretty good. But, I used to hate when my opponent flipped. Because doing something with those weird flips was not comfortable for me. These days if I can get someone who likes to flip to do a mediocre flip, that is a good third ball to T off on.

 

[ttmonster]

Nice shots Jeff ! Loved how you were able to kill your third ball setups with a shorter backswing. Keep working on footwork drills as your time and body permits !

Had a bit of free time today as my 1 week break began. Made a video off my last comp.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

0:12-0:20; 0:48-0:51 KILLER!

1:05-1:15 HULK SMASH!


You would kill me in a match! nice steady loops! Runner-up is not too bad! Congratulations JeffM!

 

[Archosaurus]

NL, Carl, what do you think is better if you had to choose:

Well disguised, very varying serves with lower spin producing harder but more consistent chances to attack and win, or:

heavier serve variations producing either straight out nets or high popups with a higher chance to win when attacked BUT also easier to read?

Does it depend on the opponent? How well I am playing? How consistently I can serve the heavy spins? This is assuming probably a mid 1000's level of play or so, where people will really heavily punish fast, long serves that would eat up lower players. So no serving to ace like you do against low level players.

 

[JeffM]

Thanks ttmonster and OSP! Your compliments are too kind

I did have a good performance last sunday. Now my real comp is this coming Monday till Friday. Hopefully I can perform as best as I can. (will be filming everything if I can).

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Bestest of Luck!

Thanks ttmonster and OSP! Your compliments are too kind

I did have a good performance last sunday. Now my real comp is this coming Monday till Friday. Hopefully I can perform as best as I can. (will be filming everything if I can).

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Does it depend on the opponent? How well I am playing? How consistently I can serve the heavy spins?

I'm not NL or Carl, but I'll chime in ... IMO, D) all of the above.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@ Archo, for spin variations to be useful, at a certain level you need to be able to make spin heavy so that doing a lighter version of the same spin is enough of a change to give you an easy return.

When I am playing someone who will give me free points off serve, usually that means I am enough better than them that it is worth me serving in a way where they CAN return my serves so I can work in the rallies.

If I can steal a free point or two against someone at a decent level, that is okay. But at a certain level, your serves just come back. So you may as well work with them coming back.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

 

[Archosaurus]

@ Archo, for spin variations to be useful, at a certain level you need to be able to make spin heavy so that doing a lighter version of the same spin is enough of a change to give you an easy return.

When I am playing someone who will give me free points off serve, usually that means I am enough better than them that it is worth me serving in a way where they CAN return my serves so I can work in the rallies.

If I can steal a free point or two against someone at a decent level, that is okay. But at a certain level, your serves just come back. So you may as well work with them coming back.


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So serving heavy backspin and no-spin with the same motion, is generally better than alternating between light backspin and light topspin?

Assuming that the serves are hard to read for people around your own level.

 

[Xylit]

What works amazingly good against lots of players are all kind of long and fast serves to the backhand and point between BH and FH (don't know the word in english). Variation in spin, just a little bit, with variation in serve motion and you get tons of free points, either directly or with an easy third ball.

Problem is that a good long and fast serve is not easy to perform and that a lot of players are frightened of serving long as they think everyone would easily attack it. That is a misjudgement as long as you are not playing against 2200+ opponents.