Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Shuki]

I saw nothing wrong with what arch posted. He even went through the effort to take still-frames and draw lines to explain his point. You admit that all he did was say the same thing you said but with different wording. Couldn't it be possible that YOUR wording was taken differently to arch? Rather than attack him for a post you disagree with, ignoring the post would cause much less issues.

And yes, I know playing devils advocate is going to get the judgement snapping shot at me now.

 

[NextLevel]

So in other words, there's too much bark and not enough bite.


Why would your words not have as much weight as theirs? Your perspective is inherently different from theirs, and I want to hear it too. Don't worry about it.

Other than how busy they are, one of the reasons why many pros do not interact in forums is because of the attitudes lower rated players show to them -rather than ask questions, they criticize or make suggestions. You will hear a lower rated player saying to a pro that his loop form is bad and that he should be more like Ma Long or some other kind of crap. I remember that the first time you posted on OOAKforum, you were criticizing my form and that of a player who even with his issues was a significantly higher level player than you were. Instead of asking why the elbow position seems lower, or why my pendulum serve is the way it is, you propose solutions for fixing it that again are parroted from other people (partly because you don't have the requisite experience).

THe reason I post, other than my love for teaching/coaching, is that I am mostly sharing my experience. It is easy to look at some video and say that one should do this or do that. But when you have done it or had similar issues, the issue is really more how to communicate what you changed or how your experience evolved so that people with a similar problem can then see where they are at and not take it as if something is especially wrong with them. It also makes it easier for people to see that these issues are often not that easy to solve so they can either give up, or they can accept the challenges and reframe the issues in novel ways.

NL, a tip from me for the pendulum:

Try to keep your right arm more level with the ground. Your elbow will probably move down just a little when you swing, but I believe that it should still stay fairly high. Brett shows this in his videos.


A good way to do that is indeed lean more into the ball: but also really lift your right elbow closer to shoulder level. It won't feel very nice compared to having your elbow all the way down to your side, but you can really snap into the ball from there.

You said your reverse pendulum is relatively bad: this is probably one reason for it. It's really, really hard and uncomfortable to get good contact without your elbow being very high.

Something like this, of course adapted to your height and limb proportions.

I mean, the whole tone of your initial comment was just completely failing to show that the issue is not technical knowledge but execution. And the whole post claims a level of expertise that begs to be demonstrated.

The reverse pendulum is the hardest serve in table tennis. Some people do not even serve it because they don't like their quality and variation - It took me 2 years of work, on and off, as you can see from the first videos Brett made with me, to get to my level of proficiency which is relatively high, I just don't like it. If someone is tell you he doesn't like his reverse pendulum, you just nod your head and keep quiet. You don't pretend to know why it is bad, and my "relatively bad" reverse pendulum serve is probably the only reverse pendulum serve you may ever see someone serve on most forums. If they tell you they cannot serve backspin, you can then suggest that it is likely the elbow position. But that is derived from experience, not from pretending to know what you do not.

Even my current pendulum serve - you heard that most people actually like it. My attempt to fix it is more about being able to do more things with it.

The thing is that people who do not know you and know how little you know can listen to your pretentious stuff in good faith. I cannot. I know how freaking hard it can be to get this stuff done and the hours I put into it. It is people like you that drive away people who want to share their struggles by pretending to know what you do not know. Stop it. Go and find victims somewhere else to listen to your false knowledge.

 

[NextLevel]

I saw nothing wrong with what arch posted. He even went through the effort to take still-frames and draw lines to explain his point. You admit that all he did was say the same thing you said but with different wording. Couldn't it be possible that YOUR wording was taken differently to arch? Rather than attack him for a post you disagree with, ignoring the post would cause much less issues.

And yes, I know playing devils advocate is going to get the judgement snapping shot at me now.

I saw nothing wrong with it either other than knowing who was posting it and knowing that he was repeating exactly what other people had posted elsewhere. Archo has a penchant for plagiarism that we can decide to ignore if we want to. But in his case, he probably still fails to understand that it is dishonest and leads to all kinds of bad assumptions about human nature.

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28641&start=1410#p325072

Maybe he honestly never read the site despite the fact I linked to it earlier on this thread as the answer to a question that he tried to answer but did not . You can read that post and decide for yourself. You can also compare Barfly's response to Archo for context. And you can then decide whether Archo is communicating his tip as someone who has a good serve or someone who is struggling to develop one.

 

[Archosaurus]

Hmm, I get your point. I don't think I can argue. For one I should apologize for appearing to undermine your efforts. I've under or overestimated people's ability due to lack of understanding, but I don't want to do it out of stupidity.

Shuki, thanks for the effort, but NL has a point. I am not gonna argue about where my views originate from because it's not worth arguing; if they appear dishonest, then it doesn't matter where they come from in reality.


Also, NL, don't think I said your serves are bad. Your serve level looks to be fairly advanced among your peers. Sorry if I came across that way.

 

[NextLevel]

Hmm, I get your point. I don't think I can argue. For one I should apologize for appearing to undermine your efforts. I've under or overestimated people's ability due to lack of understanding, but I don't want to do it out of stupidity.

Shuki, thanks for the effort, but NL has a point. I am not gonna argue about where my views originate from because it's not worth arguing; if they appear dishonest, then it doesn't matter where they come from in reality.


Also, NL, don't think I said your serves are bad. Your serve level looks to be fairly advanced among your peers. Sorry if I came across that way.

How many of you peers have you played or watched to make that kind of statement?

 

[Shuki]

How many of you peers have you played or watched to make that kind of statement?

when he says your peers, I think he means your opponents that you've showed us video of you playing against.

 

[baumschule]

I have a bit of extra disposable income this month and want to make a defensive chopping setup with long pips on the backhand to play with for fun. I already have an old-ish devensive blade and a rubber for the forehand however I have no idea which long pips are best suited for chopping away from the table. Can anyone recommend me a LP rubber wich is easy to control when chopping? Doesn't have to be the fanciest one just something that is pasable for that kind of play when I want to play defensive from time to time.

 

[NextLevel]

when he says your peers, I think he means your opponents that you've showed us video of you playing against.

Voltron...

Okay. I need to get back to playing in the Lily Yip league...

 

[NextLevel]

I have a bit of extra disposable income this month and want to make a defensive chopping setup with long pips on the backhand to play with for fun. I already have an old-ish devensive blade and a rubber for the forehand however I have no idea which long pips are best suited for chopping away from the table. Can anyone recommend me a LP rubber wich is easy to control when chopping? Doesn't have to be the fanciest one just something that is pasable for that kind of play when I want to play defensive from time to time.

Pgpg, nukeskywalker... where are you....

 

[Archosaurus]

NL, you know exactly what I mean. Shuki even spelled it out for you.

Hell, I didn't know you were so bad at taking compliments. I can cease all of them if you wish.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think most people don't doubt your intention that you want to help. However the way you write comes across as if you were the most knowledgeable person on the subject matter (to me at least). This could simply be a result of the language barrier that we non native english speakers have. In contrast to that is your actual playing level. I think most would agree that you are a beginner wich I mean in no way in a negative sense since everybody started out as one. I think to fully understand lots of these things you talk about you can't just read up on them. You actually have to be able to do it at a certain level in order to really get some concepts and that comes with time and experience. I'm not trying to say that you need to be better than someone in order to give criticism/advice but some things about a level of play that is beyond your own simply don't occur to you unless you experience them yourself.
I know that these words probably don't have as much weight since I'm not NextLevel or Carl and haven't really been active on this forum in the last weeks but I still wanted to share my perspective

Great post. In some ways, baumschule, your words may carry more weight than NextLevel's or mine because we have been on Archo from the beginning!

Why were we on him from his first posts on the forum? We both can tell Archo is a kid who wants to learn. And we both can tell that Archo gives a lot of good comments. But he also gives comments on technical details that can't possibly be from someone who knows what he is talking about. And he gives them as though he does know what he is taking about.

So, great post for the fact that you have explained things in a way that makes it clear that there are plenty of people who read the forum who over time realize that Archo is often talking based on a mistaken theory and NOT FROM EXPERIENCE.

One time Archo even said: "can't you tell I am a high level player just from my posts!" Well, the fact is, from much of what Archo says, we know he is NOT. [emoji2]

So Archo, not to pick on you, but....stop posting stuff about technical details of other people's play UNTIL you post some footage of YOU PLAYING.



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[42andbackpains]

Ok, i have been mulling going back to inverted smooth for my backhand. I used to play smooth in my younger years and decided on my comeback to try something new and played 2 years with shortpips on my bh. (Getting coached from the best shortpips bh player in the United States) 2 years into it, my short pips backhand just doesn't have the confidence, consistency and oomph i like. Maybe i will play both styles. Getting MX-P from TT11, Tenergy 05 from my club and breaking out the Double Day Valiant Blade. Maybe its just time.

 

[NextLevel]

NL, you know exactly what I mean. Shuki even spelled it out for you.

Hell, I didn't know you were so bad at taking compliments. I can cease all of them if you wish.

Many people I play are not my peers (as a Blue belt, I enjoy beating up on White and Yellow Belts). That said, if those are the people you are comparing me to, I agree. I would just say "most of your opponents" as many of my peers actually have pretty good pendulum serves.

 

[NextLevel]

Ok, i have been mulling going back to inverted smooth for my backhand. I used to play smooth in my younger years and decided on my comeback to try something new and played 2 years with shortpips on my bh. (Getting coached from the best shortpips bh player in the United States) 2 years into it, my short pips backhand just doesn't have the confidence, consistency and oomph i like. Maybe i will play both styles. Getting MX-P from TT11, Tenergy 05 from my club and breaking out the Double Day Valiant Blade. Maybe its just time.

If you don't like it, you can always go back.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

2 years into it, my short pips backhand just doesn't have the confidence, consistency and oomph i like.

That's cos you didn't play enough vs me! You would win more and your confidence would skyrocket!

Getting MX-P from TT11

On that note, i piggybacked on 42&bp's order and getting a MX-P also to try out. Some weeks ago "M1" saw me looping and just hitting and as an aside he said 'you are doing too much work' ... that got me thinking maybe i should try a non-Chinese rubber. Although after the brief comment, I asked M1 for his reco, he said let me get back to you. LOL

He mentioned why use chinese, unless you like to block and i said yeah, i like to block and punch. i'm not a looper per se, meaning i won't go looking to loop almost every ball... i'm old and slow, i'm good for 1 or 2 loops, that is if i get my first loop in LOL

So will try the MX-P after watching the head honcho Dan's review last week.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Probably I don't. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting like this, would I? So do tell me, what exactly is the issue?

Archo, you are a good kid. We like you being part of the forum. You are enthusiastic. You clearly love the sport. You want to learn and get better.

When you have come to realize that there was something you thought you knew but didn't, you have shown great potential for learning.

But whenever anyone posts video, you seem pretty comfortable making comments. These comments often verge on the ridiculous. And part of why is, you are actually way lower level than you realize. Or, at least, based on the video footage you have previously posted you could be under 500 USATT.

So JUST DO WHATEVER YOU NEED TO TO POST SOME FOOTAGE OF YOURSELF PLAYING AN ACTUAL HUMAN.

@Shuki: I get your point and it is worth having someone besides Der_Echte who empathizes with Archo. So don't stop.

But he kind of needs to post footage to make the kind of comments he continues to make. I mean, come on, in strangeloop's thread he presented the idea that he and strangeloop are about the same level. If you are going to make a statement like that while critiquing someone's technique, you sort of need to show the footage that you are in that ballpark.

At this point I would say Archo needs to figure out a way to post footage of:

1) him looping vs block
2) match play
3) serve and receive practice

Until I see that, I will keep Archo firmly categorized with PNut in terms of table tennis skill level.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

Ok, i have been mulling going back to inverted smooth for my backhand. I used to play smooth in my younger years and decided on my comeback to try something new and played 2 years with shortpips on my bh. (Getting coached from the best shortpips bh player in the United States) 2 years into it, my short pips backhand just doesn't have the confidence, consistency and oomph i like. Maybe i will play both styles. Getting MX-P from TT11, Tenergy 05 from my club and breaking out the Double Day Valiant Blade. Maybe its just time.

Post pics of that blade!!!!

That is the one with ALC on one side and ZLC on the other side??? What was it called?

It will be worth you trying smooth. Your technique with BH looks like it is smooth technique when you are using pips. It will take a little to get used to, but I think it will be worth a try.

As NextLevel says, if you change your mind, you can always go back.


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[Archosaurus]

Carl, I understand.

Well, there's then only two things I can do; I either post video or I shut up.


I can most likely post video of my serves, because all I need is something to prop up my phone or a camera on, I don't even need anyone to film me, nor a partner. Of course, someone returning them would be better, but the serve motion and ball trajectory don't lie.

For game footage, that remains to be seen. There's a few things that are stopping me that I haven't mentioned: they don't belong here and I don't need to share them. Just take my word.

Until I get footage out, I guess I will just shut my trap.




Now, for a question:

The table I play on is fairly old. We don't exactly switch out to a new table every year when the surface goes bad.

How will this affect shots and serves vs playing on a tournament level table and are new tables even common?

The reason I mostly ask this is because I'm not too sure if the trajectory of the ball I get due to my spin is "the same" that other people get, and if they can be accurately referenced.

My heavy backspin serves come back into the net with some speed, and I'm starting to see a good spin effect on my shots too: but is it just because the table isn't stopping the spin so much? Or do I have it backwards, and a new table amplifies spin effect?

 

[pgpg]

Pgpg, nukeskywalker... where are you....

My initial response is to get something cheap/inexpensive in OX and give it a go. Palio CK531a, Cloud And Fog, Dornenglanz - whatever you have available nearby. Differences are not THAT large, especially if you want to try it for fun 'chop the loop' sessions.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

For game footage, that remains to be seen. There's a few things that are stopping me that I haven't mentioned: they don't belong here and I don't need to share them. Just take my word.

For ideas for getting footage, I posted in strangeloop's thread several ways you could get footage including:

1) a small, $9.00 tripod that holds a phone that can fit in your racket case. With one you could make video where you are in the video and your training partner is not.

2) a friend taking 5 min of footage starting on the serve and ending when the rally ends so each clip is the length of one rally and you get to choose a couple of decent rallies so that you only show stuff that is decent and we don't see the mistakes that would show your real level. [emoji2]. With a human pointing the camera you get a good view of what you want so you can be in the footage and training partner not.

3) editing video you already have by cropping the video so that ONLY YOU are in the video.

Any of these options would work. Any other excuses you make, I don't buy it. I don't believe you have any excuses except that you don't want us to see footage because we would see your actual level and it is even lower than you think we think.

In this footage, the angle makes it hard to see, but your forehand actually looks like you push forward instead of taking a real stroke. Also, note, there are NO rallies in this video that go farther than 3 balls.

What I am talking about with your FH is like what I am showing in this video:

It is hard to see for sure from the side if you are doing that. But it sure looks like it to me.

And if that is what you are doing, I HIGHLY doubt that has changed since then because that is an issue of weak tracking and intercepting skills and it is a hard pattern to break.

Which is also why, SOOOOO many times I have said you need to post footage where you are facing the camera and not a side view.



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