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Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat
- Thread starter Boogar
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Oh, and stop using a Viscaria! I am allergic to Koto!
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I suppose an apology is due. I've had more than my fair share of foolish things to say, and I can see how I would come to insult people directly or indirectly. I'm sorry ttmonster and whoever else I have insulted in the past.
@Yecats Encerwal
Tell me: when you are arguing with someone, what are you trying to accomplish exactly?
@Yecats Encerwal
Tell me: when you are arguing with someone, what are you trying to accomplish exactly?
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I try to avoid arguing, I prefer to debate
In which case, just like many people, I debate to find out other people's perspectives on a topic and to create conversation. Depending on the topic, you can sometimes try to change someone's opinion, but this is very rare. I only ever try to change someone's opinion if their's could potentially cause them harm in the long run.
e.g. when people say "natural talent" is a major factor in long term success, and not so much hard work and dedication.
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I try to avoid arguing, I prefer to debate
In which case, just like many people, I debate to find out other people's perspectives on a topic and to create conversation. Depending on the topic, you can sometimes try to change someone's opinion, but this is very rare. I only ever try to change someone's opinion if their's could potentially cause them harm in the long run.
e.g. when people say "natural talent" is a major factor in long term success, and not so much hard work and dedication.
Arguing is trying to prove your point to be right, even if you realize it isn't. Debating is openly discussing different views in pursuit of understanding. Both are useful and some people are better at one than the other
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Arguing is trying to prove your point to be right, even if you realize it isn't. Debating is openly discussing different views in pursuit of understanding. Both are useful and some people are better at one than the other
Debate is for sissies...
Argument is for hypertensives...
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Debate helps to broaden perspective. Arguing often involves tunnelling a single perspective, even if it is wrong.
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Wow, that serve is pretty good. Cant think of much except maybe try to contact the ball nearer the tip and make sure contact point is low. Otherwise, keep practicing!
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The things is with "Greatest Ever" posts and things like that, is that they are ALL opinion based. It is impossible for an answer to be decided, there will always be someone with a different answer. That's why it is interesting to discuss and debate!
Anyway, we can let that slide as it was a while back now and I don't particularly want to discuss it further. I don't hold grudges and 99% of the time I thoroughly enjoy Carls posts
No, they are not all opinion based. And sometimes, opinions can be very half-baked and misinformed. So if my opinion is that I am the greatest player of all time, you think that opinion is just as respectable as considering Waldner the greatest player of all time? Really?
But if we were to argue for something a bit tighter like Waldner vs Kong Linghui vs Zhang Jike or Ma Long vs Wang Liqin, then you have to show a sophisticated understanding of table tennis history, maybe for some people some statistical acumen as well, to be taken seriously.
I will be honest that while I don't contribute to those threads, and while I have not liked Carl's arguments, I found yours very unfulfilling. So I decided that rather than go in and strangle everyone while pulling my scalp out, I would just pretend that the threads were like the birds singing in my apartment complex tree... (I am sure many treat my posts that way as well).
Look at the way Larry Hodges handles the argument here (before Ma Long did what he did in 2015 and 2016):
http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/2037
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Debate clouds the mind. Argument focuses it.
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I argue and debate a lot, and I can tell you now that it has not gotten me anywhere, ever. Persuading people has: but I don't think anyone in the history of Earth has ever persuaded anyone with an argument or debate.
Argumentation and debates are, to me, in their essence a self-centered activity. Maybe that's why I argue so much, ahahaha.
However, presenting inadequate arguments will very quickly expose issues in your thinking. I suppose for that it is good. I don't know what debate is good for. Can someone tell me?
To me, the notion of not getting wildly attacked for my opinion is a very unrealistic one. I think if you hang around people who are not yes-men and instead care for your well being, be it from the perspective of a friend or an enemy, you will start to think this way as well.
Argumentation and debates are, to me, in their essence a self-centered activity. Maybe that's why I argue so much, ahahaha.
However, presenting inadequate arguments will very quickly expose issues in your thinking. I suppose for that it is good. I don't know what debate is good for. Can someone tell me?
To me, the notion of not getting wildly attacked for my opinion is a very unrealistic one. I think if you hang around people who are not yes-men and instead care for your well being, be it from the perspective of a friend or an enemy, you will start to think this way as well.
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But I'm allergic to losing!
Then I will push the hate button, This trying is not good enough.
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The thread allowed for anyone to provide their opinion and lots of people enjoyed it
There is no respectable argument for you being the best of all time, and so It would be easy to provide a counter argument against. However there are a number of players who people CAN provide a solid argument for, and my thread allowed people to pick and choose as they wish. I didn't want to narrow it down, because that limits conversation.What is so wrong about that?
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The thread allowed for anyone to provide their opinion and lots of people enjoyed it
What is so wrong about that?
Because your argument was so weak that when someone came to question the premise underlying it, you couldn't defend yourself. A good strong argument or intro post doesn't limit the argument, it heightens the quality of what is/should be posted. Everyone has their opinions, but you are a good player, you aren't supposed to be making arguments like you are the invisible man. If your opinion is Ma Long, which I think it was, as it is mine, make a solid case for it so that people know they have to bring their A-game, rather than just writing something like
"I think it is Ma Long." (BECAUSE?)
" I like Michael Maze because he had the best sidespin loop of all time." (SO?)
When you read Larry's post, whether you think there is a greatest of all time or not, you learn a lot. But you can't expect that quality of response from others if you aren't trying to introduce it yourself.
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Archo,
I don't think they are self centred at all. You only get a lot out of a debate if you go about it correctly.
I think if you provide an opinion, and someone has a different opinion, it provides a learning opportunity for both people and possibly one could change their mind, or at least see someone else's perspective. There is often a reason people think how they do.
If people keep their opinions to themselves all the time, where is the fun in that?
Of course, a good opinion is backed by facts and a good debate is backed by solidified opinions
I don't think they are self centred at all. You only get a lot out of a debate if you go about it correctly.
I think if you provide an opinion, and someone has a different opinion, it provides a learning opportunity for both people and possibly one could change their mind, or at least see someone else's perspective. There is often a reason people think how they do.
If people keep their opinions to themselves all the time, where is the fun in that?
Of course, a good opinion is backed by facts and a good debate is backed by solidified opinions
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Yecats, I don't understand what your issue is.
Isn't it a given that someone, somewhere will come into your thread and exclaim something like "OP is gay, this thread is gay, Sebas is the best player of all time! Trolololololol!" and you will have to deal with it?
Isn't it a given that someone, somewhere will come into your thread and exclaim something like "OP is gay, this thread is gay, Sebas is the best player of all time! Trolololololol!" and you will have to deal with it?
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Elliptical...
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I don't even know whether I gave an opinion on GOAT, I think I just opened it up to everyone else. I can't remember. Maybe I gave a brief argument, but no one really commented on that.
Carls essay was about the premise of the thread, that's what annoyed me
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