Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Der_Echte]

Lula,

The adults wanting to grow in level should be chocking your neck and threatening to beat you up... in an effort to get you to tell them things to help them grow level.

If this group of adults feels your help is boring, you unfortunately have a group with poor character who does not want to grow.

You should lead how you think will be effective with worry, you have the experience. It doesn't mean you need to lead like a 1960s US Marine Corps Drill Instructor Arschlosch, but you should feel free to do what it takes with the right attitude.

 

[NextLevel]

I know the Federer fans will come for my head but am I the only one who thinks Djokovic is the most complete and probably the most dominant amongst the great players of this era? I mean Djokovic is the moat dominant player in an era of dominant players like Nadal Federer and Murray while when Federer did most of his winning, it was Safin, Hewitt, Roddick and Nadal/Djokovic in diapers.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I know the Federer fans will come for my head but am I the only one who thinks Djokovic is the most complete and probably the most dominant amongst the great players of this era? I mean Djokovic is the moat dominant player in an era of dominant players like Nadal Federer and Murray while when Federer did most of his winning, it was Safin, Hewitt, Roddick and Nadal/Djokovic in diapers.

its increasing likely that RF 20 grand slams record will not hold. Either Djokovic or Nadal, or both ! will surpass him. RF is too old now to win another one, his best chance might be Wimbledon 2019 still, but the odds are thin.

RF has a negative face-to-face record with both Djokovic and Nadal, so the conclusion - and I hate to say it because I'm a Federer fan - must be that Djokovic and Nadal are above Federer.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Today we had our January local tournament

Doubles we didn't get out of our group of 3, 1win 1loss, there was a strong team (one guy in QF and the other SF in singles out of 80+ players) to whom we lost 0-3 but played decently (had a 10-8 lead in 2nd and 7-5 in 3rd)

Singles i didn't get out of my group of 3. Had one easy game, and the other guy i lost 0-3 last year. I improved but he improved a lot as well. As a surprise, my wife came to support me, but that made me nervous. I played well below my usual standard, i think i did not prepare carefully the match as well (didn't warmup properly and start to focus while the previous game was still going on). So a hard 0-3 defeat which feels way worse than last year. I can't even remember scoring one of my "own" points on a combo attack or 3rd ball for example. The guy attacked every ball from both sides and made little mistakes and had a good BH flick. I should have served more to his short FH and long elsewhere because only in rallies did i have little chance.

On top of that i lost badly in front of my wife - probably it made me even more nervous. I think I wanted to show off too much and when things didn't go as planned, I should have thought about taking more time, playing more slowly, and more simply instead of rushing, making mistakes and anyway the guy was faster than me.

Quite demoralizing.

 

[yoass]

TT can be disheartening every now and then. I know, having let frustration get the upper hand when a period of stagnation and setbacks followed stretches of rapid development.

Took me nearly 30 years to let go and find the joy of it back. Hope you’re better than me in moving on and recovering, Takkyu!

 

[mart1nandersson]

Played a league match tonight (and actually won a match). Nothing exciting about that but a team mate played her first matches with her new rubber after replacing it and she was absolutely amazed with the spin. The thing is that she plays with an Ulf "Tickan" from 1986 with BTY Superanti (also from 1986) and Sriver on her FH. She replaced the Sriver and all of a sudden she could impart spin (she wasn't sure if she liked this). She's about 1500 ranking points in Sweden (she picked up TT 2 years ago after not playing for almost 30 years) so I guess it goes to show that the old classical rubbers still are great if you have the proper technique.

Fun fact: She got her rubber glue by the staff at a local TT store and they were amazed by the weight of her ancient blade which came in at under 60g.

 

[Lula]

Played a league match tonight (and actually won a match). Nothing exciting about that but a team mate played her first matches with her new rubber after replacing it and she was absolutely amazed with the spin. The thing is that she plays with an Ulf "Tickan" from 1986 with BTY Superanti (also from 1986) and Sriver on her FH. She replaced the Sriver and all of a sudden she could impart spin (she wasn't sure if she liked this). She's about 1500 ranking points in Sweden (she picked up TT 2 years ago after not playing for almost 30 years) so I guess it goes to show that the old classical rubbers still are great if you have the proper technique.

Fun fact: She got her rubber glue by the staff at a local TT store and they were amazed by the weight of her ancient blade which came in at under 60g.

Cool! I am interested in how she plays with the anti? i have barely played anyone with anti, and i do not know much about it. When i have tried anti i feel that it is just nospin all the time.

I have changed my mind about the adult practice tomorrow and will explain anti, long pimple and short pimple for them since they play against alot of these and i have already borrowed two rackets with these rubbers for another practice.

 

[mart1nandersson]

Cool! I am interested in how she plays with the anti? i have barely played anyone with anti, and i do not know much about it. When i have tried anti i feel that it is just nospin all the time.

I have changed my mind about the adult practice tomorrow and will explain anti, long pimple and short pimple for them since they play against alot of these and i have already borrowed two rackets with these rubbers for another practice.

She twiddles (extremely fast) so she can play both BH and FH in an attacking way. Very 80ies style with a lot of flat smashes. She loves to get opponents to start looping so she can first block with the Sriver and then block with the anti. The block with anti quite often bounces 2-3 times on the table. She can also do some nasty blocks which are no spin. She can also chop with it but she ideally wants to block.

 

[NextLevel]

Cool! I am interested in how she plays with the anti? i have barely played anyone with anti, and i do not know much about it. When i have tried anti i feel that it is just nospin all the time.

I have changed my mind about the adult practice tomorrow and will explain anti, long pimple and short pimple for them since they play against alot of these and i have already borrowed two rackets with these rubbers for another practice.

It is very important to teach adults non-inverted, both to play with and to play against. Some may already use it and those that don't will like them more if they understand the rubbers. They are also very common amongst adult players so it is a win all round.

 

[Richie]

I remembered I posted a few backhands in this thread a bit over 2 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxhDTgY1bLw 00-0.33 and 0.50 - 1.00

I've been trying to work on my backhand lately and found it interesting to compare what my backhand is like now compared to then.
https://youtu.be/qpb_vrLCBX8?t=117

I think the last angle at 1.57 shows the better ones. At the start are a few close to the table. It's still not super consistent and I'm trying to find the feeling for it.

The old backhand still shows up at times, especially in matches.. lack of body and lack of forearm. I found this interesting because when I look back I can't remember my backhands looking like they did at all. I wish I recorded more video back then. What's more interesting is that on the other side was a very good player with good backhands and he never saw or told me how to get my backhand towards more like it is now.

 

[NextLevel]

I remembered I posted a few backhands in this thread a bit over 2 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxhDTgY1bLw 00-0.33 and 0.50 - 1.00

I've been trying to work on my backhand lately and found it interesting to compare what my backhand is like now compared to then.
https://youtu.be/qpb_vrLCBX8?t=117

I think the last angle at 1.57 shows the better ones. At the start are a few close to the table. It's still not super consistent and I'm trying to find the feeling for it.

The old backhand still shows up at times, especially in matches.. lack of body and lack of forearm. I found this interesting because when I look back I can't remember my backhands looking like they did at all. I wish I recorded more video back then. What's more interesting is that on the other side was a very good player with good backhands and he never saw or told me how to get my backhand towards more like it is now.

The old backhand is not as bad as you think. The new backhand will still need to be trained vs incoming topspin close to the table so you can comfortably block and even transition into forehands. All that said, you are clearly on a better path and headed in the right direction.

One of the thing I got from William Henzell was that he felt he could use the same stroke for his backhand to return any ball (all that changed was swing plane and contact point). It is part of the reason I felt mastering and over the tabl backhand is important and gives confidence. Same mechanics for flipping serves, give it a try sometime.

 

[Lula]

I remembered I posted a few backhands in this thread a bit over 2 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxhDTgY1bLw 00-0.33 and 0.50 - 1.00

I've been trying to work on my backhand lately and found it interesting to compare what my backhand is like now compared to then.
https://youtu.be/qpb_vrLCBX8?t=117

I think the last angle at 1.57 shows the better ones. At the start are a few close to the table. It's still not super consistent and I'm trying to find the feeling for it.

The old backhand still shows up at times, especially in matches.. lack of body and lack of forearm. I found this interesting because when I look back I can't remember my backhands looking like they did at all. I wish I recorded more video back then. What's more interesting is that on the other side was a very good player with good backhands and he never saw or told me how to get my backhand towards more like it is now.

Are you in Malmö? i think my old friend and trainingpartner Fredrik Cöster lives there now. does he train anything there? i know he plays league matches. We do not have so much contact anymore.

I think your backhand over the table looked good before and looks good now. I like that you have the racket high on both of the backhand shots, especially close to the table. You also accelerate nice.

I do think you can use some more forearm when you loop further away from the table, there you have the time and you need the forearm to get power in the ball. It is hard to get any power with almost just the wrist. But you need to keep the good acceleration, can not be a longer stroke were you move your arm slowly. I also think that you maybe can wait a little more for the ball, if you take it to early so you extend your arm you will also loose power.

But in general i think it looked very nice and i am not sure that i am correct about the things i mentioned above. I do not have so much time at the moment, so i watched just half of the video and i find it a little difficult to see this clearly when it was filmed in front of you. Easier to see live. You proably know if you do the things i mention or not and you can try them yourselves and see how it works.

 

[Richie]

The old backhand is not as bad as you think. The new backhand will still need to be trained vs incoming topspin close to the table so you can comfortably block and even transition into forehands. All that said, you are clearly on a better path and headed in the right direction.

One of the thing I got from William Henzell was that he felt he could use the same stroke for his backhand to return any ball (all that changed was swing plane and contact point). It is part of the reason I felt mastering and over the tabl backhand is important and gives confidence. Same mechanics for flipping serves, give it a try sometime.

Thank you NL. Yes you are right. I'm still getting used to using body on BH and need to figuring out how much/little of it to use depending on how far I am from the table. Interesting about using the same stroke, that's how I should imagine it and let my subconsciousness take care of the swing and contact point - which I think only gets better from practice. So closer to the table against topspin I should have a slightly shorter swing and maybe use wrist to go over the ball more (less forearm).

Flipping is something I try against less spinny serves, sometimes it works but is also inconsistent. With bh flip and and bh over the table it seems more difficult to use the body. I haven't figured it out.

 

[Lula]

Thank you NL. Yes you are right. I'm still getting used to using body on BH and need to figuring out how much/little of it to use depending on how far I am from the table. Interesting about using the same stroke, that's how I should imagine it and let my subconsciousness take care of the swing and contact point - which I think only gets better from practice. So closer to the table against topspin I should have a slightly shorter swing and maybe use wrist to go over the ball more (less forearm).

Flipping is something I try against less spinny serves, sometimes it works but is also inconsistent. With bh flip and and bh over the table it seems more difficult to use the body. I haven't figured it out.

I think that when you are close to the table you should not use the forearm or body much, the time is not there. Bakhand close to the table is more used for tempo. If you want to loop harder you need to step out so you have more time to use the forearm and maybe body a little.

What i see as a coach and what i think personally when i play is that it is very important to accelerate fast with the wrist when you flip with the backhand. The ball often goes in the net otherwise if the opponent have alot of spin. I also think it is important to choose the right balls. Goes well to flip against all serves but pure low backspin serves are difficult in my opinion. I still sometimes try to flip pure backspin serves but those are not so safe for me, but i feel that it is somewhat possible if i come more under the ball.

 

[Richie]

Are you in Malmö? i think my old friend and trainingpartner Fredrik Cöster lives there now. does he train anything there? i know he plays league matches. We do not have so much contact anymore.

I think your backhand over the table looked good before and looks good now. I like that you have the racket high on both of the backhand shots, especially close to the table. You also accelerate nice.

I do think you can use some more forearm when you loop further away from the table, there you have the time and you need the forearm to get power in the ball. It is hard to get any power with almost just the wrist. But you need to keep the good acceleration, can not be a longer stroke were you move your arm slowly. I also think that you maybe can wait a little more for the ball, if you take it to early so you extend your arm you will also loose power.

But in general i think it looked very nice and i am not sure that i am correct about the things i mentioned above. I do not have so much time at the moment, so i watched just half of the video and i find it a little difficult to see this clearly when it was filmed in front of you. Easier to see live. You proably know if you do the things i mention or not and you can try them yourselves and see how it works.

Yes I'm in Malmö. We have a few Fredriks here but I've not heard of him. Thank you for your comments. In the second video if you watch towards the end I think I'm using more forearm and power. I think it will be difficult for me to use more forearm than that. I shall keep experimenting next training session

 

[Lula]

Yes I'm in Malmö. We have a few Fredriks here but I've not heard of him. Thank you for your comments. In the second video if you watch towards the end I think I'm using more forearm and power. I think it will be difficult for me to use more forearm than that. I shall keep experimenting next training session

Just do not change to much! I had technique crazy coaches so i changed to much. It is hard to become good at anything and safe if you change too much all the time.

 

[NextLevel]

Thank you NL. Yes you are right. I'm still getting used to using body on BH and need to figuring out how much/little of it to use depending on how far I am from the table. Interesting about using the same stroke, that's how I should imagine it and let my subconsciousness take care of the swing and contact point - which I think only gets better from practice. So closer to the table against topspin I should have a slightly shorter swing and maybe use wrist to go over the ball more (less forearm).

Flipping is something I try against less spinny serves, sometimes it works but is also inconsistent. With bh flip and and bh over the table it seems more difficult to use the body. I haven't figured it out.

As long as you remember that you are mostly going in a circle and you try to figure out where on the ball to hit to give you the result you are looking for, it tends to work itself out. I find the instructions for perfect technique too confusing, muscle and memory are built over time and building some parts makes others easier. If the intent is to kill the serve, more power. More often it is just to attack it and at least get to topspin and that doesn't need much.

 

[NextLevel]

There is a really good video about backhand flick with FZD. Give it a look, the mechanics of cranking the arm helped me with the backhand as well.

 

[Richie]

There is a really good video about backhand flick with FZD. Give it a look, the mechanics of cranking the arm helped me with the backhand as well.

Which video is it? There are many on of them. I wonder if the main issue is timing. I do not wait enough for the ball and rush the shot, same as a few of my backhands (like Lula said).
I think on my flips I can get my wrist all the way back. I have some problems against different spins. When flipping against topspin or nospin I know I need to come over the ball more. But I don't know how to achieve it (even if I sometimes do it right by accident). Should I raise my body or elbow so I'm over the ball? Because I guess against backspin you start a bit lower with racket and can come in by being lower.. but I also thought you should stay low regardless of which spin you flip. Maybe I overthink it.

https://youtu.be/WGxlc3-tAmQ?t=290

Is Ovtcharovs flip different from FZD? I think the info he gives is good too.

 

[NextLevel]

https://youtu.be/OeLFTvTfhGY

That's the video. The subs are valuable and I loved the unsheath the sword paradigm.

I would say play forward more vs topspin, play more circular vs backspin. But in the end just experiment with different contact points vs different spins.

My main point is that the same stroke can essentially handle a lot if spins and playing distances close to and over the table. For amateur TT, I am a fan of multipurpose technique. The pros are the ones who have time to work on and optimize all their strokes. And I don't think good multipurpose technique prevents specialization when and if necessary.