Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[UpSideDownCarl]

Many good posts about training and coaching. Too many. This thread moves like lightning.

I know that when I started playing with shadow stroke + footwork drills, at first it felt pointless. It felt like I would never find myself doing any of that in real play. But I remember seeing and feeling some of it just naturally happen during rallies and thinking how cool it was that breaking things down, making them simple, slow, and slowly speeding them up so you learn the movements and how then they started happening in actual rallies at the table was pretty cool.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I've been trying to revisit the long push recently. My push is good enough to win push rallies against weaker opponents as i am consistent, but its not a weapon.
I realized also that whenever I pushed it was without intent and i became passive, and the result against stronger players is that they played an attacking shot and i wasn't prepared for it and missed.

So now, I'm working on the push, but i do it as a combo. 2 exercises that I do are:
- My partner serves short, i push long, he makes opener or hard drive and I block or counter
- I serve short, partner receives short, i push long, he makes opener or hard drive and I block or counter

 

[Lula]

I've been trying to revisit the long push recently. My push is good enough to win push rallies against weaker opponents as i am consistent, but its not a weapon.
I realized also that whenever I pushed it was without intent and i became passive, and the result against stronger players is that they played an attacking shot and i wasn't prepared for it and missed.

So now, I'm working on the push, but i do it as a combo. 2 exercises that I do are:
- My partner serves short, i push long, he makes opener or hard drive and I block or counter
- I serve short, partner receives short, i push long, he makes opener or hard drive and I block or counter

Try pushing with the racket more vertical. Harder but you get faster push. And take it at the highest point.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Try pushing with the racket more vertical. Harder but you get faster push. And take it at the highest point.

problem is not so much to make the push, its rather what i do after the push

 

[Lula]

problem is not so much to make the push, its rather what i do after the push

What you do after the push, have alot with the push to do. Samsonov maybe have the best blocking game in the world, but if he makes bad pushes he is not better than you and me at blocking. With a good push it will be much easier for you to make something good with the next ball.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

What you do after the push, have alot with the push to do. Samsonov maybe have the best blocking game in the world, but if he makes bad pushes he is not better than you and me at blocking. With a good push it will be much easier for you to make something good with the next ball.

i'll state it differently, my pushes are very decent. What I do after is usually sh¨t because i don't practice it enough

 

[Lula]

i'll state it differently, my pushes are very decent. What I do after is usually sh¨t because i don't practice it enough

Maybe you should avoid pushing long then in matches and try to use your strenghts more. But of course it is good to be able to block the next ball.

The problem i have is when pushing long is i often is to slow to come back out of the table and i need to work on having the racket higher. Maybe you can try this to.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Maybe you should avoid pushing long then in matches and try to use your strenghts more. But of course it is good to be able to block the next ball.

The problem i have is when pushing long is i often is to slow to come back out of the table and i need to work on having the racket higher. Maybe you can try this to.

its more a problem of mindset, and getting automatism. if i do the exercise i will manage to do it ok. But when we are at our age, you need to do the same exercise weeks or months before it comes naturally in matches. I am now in that phase.
but its better than before . because i used to play short against short too often, and its very unforgiving. Easy to make the ball pop up when badly reading the (no) spin or mistouching the ball. So at least I WANT to push long more than before. However too often i watch my own ball instead of being in a mindset to follow up with an agressive shot (block or counter)

 

[yoass]

Below a certain level, a push is a weapon. Beginners, and even intermediate players, tend to get constricted by backspin.

Reading the level of spin properly is a challenge for mostly everybody, only those at the very highest level seem to have tackled this fully. There are limits probably even there, but that's way out of my league; Samsonov, for example, certainly seems to be able to extert pressure through well-placed pushes even to his strongest opponents. Boll's service reception has that dimension too, as does Ma Long's.

Short, long, both can make things hard. But there's more to it than that. Pushes (at and above intermediate level) need to be tight or they will be punished. But there's also placement to consider. An unexpected fast, tight push to an extreme FH angle may through a FH-dominant player hovering in the BH corner quite uncomfortable; a deep, fast, tight and loaded push to the body may be very unpleasant for a player hugging the table a bit too closely.

 

[Lula]

I think it takes time for everyone to learn something new and do it in match situation.

I think pushing can be a weapon on a higher level. I would not consider my level really high but some of my opponents are really good. trying to push more aggressive. A friend of mine played some matches some weeks ago, at a pretty high level. he was not so good at the overall game but had great returns so he always got easy balls to work with. He did not get as good balls when he pushed short, flicked or looped the first ball. It was his first push against their serve that was so fast so they did a bad loop so he got the advantage.

 

[NextLevel]

Try pushing with the racket more vertical. Harder but you get faster push. And take it at the highest point.

I have some video with a professional coach, unfortunately the camera angle isn't great. If people want me to share, I can at some point.

 

[Lula]

I have some video with a professional coach, unfortunately the camera angle isn't great. If people want me to share, I can at some point.

Yes, that would be cool! I need to test it more so i know when to be able to Do it. And how to adjust the angle. Maybe a video could help.

 

[ttmonster]

Please do ..

I have some video with a professional coach, unfortunately the camera angle isn't great. If people want me to share, I can at some point.

 

[ttmonster]

Next week we will be trouble making at Sacramento Winter Open ... haven't played competitively in singles in years and doubles ( my USATT membership expired in april 2016 ) ... but its going to be fun .. playing a couple of singles ( U2100 , U2000 ) and a couple of Doubles ( U4200, U3600 ) events. My doubles partner is my friend David and even though our collective rating is around 34-3500 .. we should get to win some of the doubles matches ...

expectations ... having a lot of fun meeting up my friends there ... and may be take some scalps in U3600 doubles ...

the reason I elected to play higher rated singles was simply to avoid too many junk players ... its not that I hate playing them .. its just it takes a lot of work to play them and I don't think I am fit enough to play 4 events in one day if I play a lot of them .. and anyways I am not expecting anything from my singles ...

 

[perham]

The hardest part in a push rally for me is to do a short push off a long push or to change the direction radically using my wrist. Pushing to the same place can be done very consistently, but to earn some time or mistake to attack, I often need to change the angle or the depth of the push to force the opponent to an awkward position.
In addition to this, I find my pushing to be way more inconsistent when playing in a humid environment. Sometimes I even see the ball rolling over the rubber for a moment before gripping.

 

[NextLevel]

The hardest part in a push rally for me is to do a short push off a long push or to change the direction radically using my wrist. Pushing to the same place can be done very consistently, but to earn some time or mistake to attack, I often need to change the angle or the depth of the push to force the opponent to an awkward position.
In addition to this, I find my pushing to be way more inconsistent when playing in a humid environment. Sometimes I even see the ball rolling over the rubber for a moment before gripping.

Doing a short push off a long push is a level 1000 difficulty skill that even.Ma Long doesn't practice. Pushing long again or playing a topspin are your only real options. Even if you get the ball to bounce short, it will usually be high or long. Better to spend time on the conventional options and get better at reading when the ball is coming long.

 

[perham]

Doing a short push off a long push is a level 1000 difficulty skill that even.Ma Long doesn't practice. Pushing long again or playing a topspin are your only real options. Even if you get the ball to bounce short, it will usually be high or long. Better to spend time on the conventional options and get better at reading when the ball is coming long.

I know getting a decent short push off of long push is difficult, but it’s important to know that in my level, even a half decent one is good enough to put someone iff of their game. Given the fact that my topspin percentage off of aggressive long pushes are around 50-60%, I’ve noticed that at least trying to push shorter and then attack on the next ball is more successful percentage wise. Now this works at my level currently , but I expect as I improve the other aspects of my game, I need to improve this tactic as well against better players. So I don’t think it’s entirely useless to train it.


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[NextLevel]

I know getting a decent short push off of long push is difficult, but it’s important to know that in my level, even a half decent one is good enough to put someone iff of their game. Given the fact that my topspin percentage off of aggressive long pushes are around 50-60%, I’ve noticed that at least trying to push shorter and then attack on the next ball is more successful percentage wise. Now this works at my level currently , but I expect as I improve the other aspects of my game, I need to improve this tactic as well against better players. So I don’t think it’s entirely useless to train it.


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Okay. Not sure what your level is but you sound like I do when I argued with my coach. I used to try to tell him how to train me. And I now realise how silly I was being. But on some things my stubborn approach did work out short term. Everyone has different goals for their game. When I got to a higher level, I had to rebuild a lot of my stuff from scratch. Whereby if I had listened to my coach earlier, I may have had something I didn't have to stop doing once I got better.

Maybe the real.issue here is we are using different language.

 

[perham]

Okay. Not sure what your level is but you sound like I do when I argued with my coach. I used to try to tell him how to train me. And I now realise how silly I was being. But on some things my stubborn approach did work out short term. Everyone has different goals for their game. When I got to a higher level, I had to rebuild a lot of my stuff from scratch. Whereby if I had listened to my coach earlier, I may have had something I didn't have to stop doing once I got better.

Maybe the real.issue here is we are using different language.

I don’t think we’re in disagreement. Speaking long term, I know that topspin percentage needs to go much higher, and then everything else becomes kinda irrelevant. Meanwhile, speaking of short term, I’m up for the individual championship in my division this season, and that’s a goal that can go away if I play recklessly [emoji16]. I appreciate the feedback, and the training is gonna be way more serious after the season ends ( after easter).




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[thekleifheit13]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e6NFA200ANU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Video from Wednesday at the club, I'm on the 2nd table - bigger guy in grey shirt playing the team #1/2. General observation is I need to learn to use and trust a 75% effort attack. My topspins are either done in slow motion or by tensing my whole body to my fullest ability. I also need to get back after I push and get ready to attack. My serves worked well when I didn't try to be too cute with them. And I think I actually need to stand a little taller, when I crouch that low I tense up and don't move my feet as well.

All feedback is welcome and very appreciated