Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

Tbh I've trained more against unconventional players who flat hit, fade, hook, chopblock my loops compared to those who actually block properly. The timing and footwork is completely different.

It's annoying because they make me look like a fool even during practice, but I think it's valuable because I'm less vulnerable to block spin/placement variations this way, especially those from pip players.

It's actually starting to let me think what is the best response to an incoming loop. Imo a straight block almost seems like the worst response. Some of these block variations really mess up loopers hard especially if you can be consistent with them.

Yes. One of my mission this year is to play with more variation in my rally game. My game is too clean,l and predictable I need to practice more options. More sidespin pushing, more misdirection on backhand. And definitely more feints on serve receive.

 

[NextLevel]

So I played today with a Timo Boll T5000. It is interesting that the old Innerforce T5000 and the Boll T5000 have similarly shaped handles but different outer plies(limbs vs koto). The first thing that was clear was that I was dealing with something different. The ball was again quicker and lower trajectory, it didn't grab as easily so I had to do a bit more work. But all that said, it made smashing even easier and I can see that on high balls, with these very fast blades, smashing is easier than top spinning when closer to the table and the ball is loose.

I played 4 matches and went 3‐1. Someone took some video so I should share when it becomes available (will take it myself next time and not be so lazy). Will try to get to practice on Tuesday and will hopefully get more into the nuances of the two blade differences then. And I need to put a lot of work into pushing with both blades for sure.

 

[Shuki]

So I played today with a Timo Boll T5000. It is interesting that the old Innerforce T5000 and the Boll T5000 have similarly shaped handles but different outer plies(limbs vs koto). The first thing that was clear was that I was dealing with something different. The ball was again quicker and lower trajectory, it didn't grab as easily so I had to do a bit more work. But all that said, it made smashing even easier and I can see that on high balls, with these very fast blades, smashing is easier than top spinning when closer to the table and the ball is loose.

I played 4 matches and went 3‐1. Someone took some video so I should share when it becomes available (will take it myself next time and not be so lazy). Will try to get to practice on Tuesday and will hopefully get more into the nuances of the two blade differences then. And I need to put a lot of work into pushing with both blades for sure.

Similar feeling I had to it. Definitely came off extremely fast.

 

[NextLevel]

Similar feeling I had to it. Definitely came off extremely fast.

Shuki, is that you? You are still alive?

 

[dingyibvs]

Had quite an eventful day today. First I went to my local club's Sunday league for the first time ever. First match was against a much lower level player who plays a consistent game with little attacks. I tried to finish some points with my BH and it wasn't as consistent as I would've liked, but eventually got a hang of it and won a pretty hard fought game. I didn't realize how even different time of day makes such a big difference. One side of the club is all glass walls/windows, and I had trouble seeing ball sometimes and had to adjust to that.

Second match was against the previously JPen player who switched to SH recently. Beat him pretty easily. 3rd game was against a BH dominant two-winged looper who spins a lot with his BH. Man I had so much trouble with him. He BH flicked all my services as he's fairly familiar with them, and I just had the toughest time. I think next time I need to avoid BH vs. BH contests and loop down the line more to get in more FH shots. Right now he completely controls the game, either making me miss on the BH or go down the line and surprise me there.

The last match was against a ~2100 level FH pips player. He plays fast on both FH and BH and I was much more comfortable with that game. Won the first set and went to deuces on the 4th set, much better than ~3-4 weeks ago when he beat me comfortably 3-0.

Then I went home, took a shower, and headed to Fremont to cheer on @Littledragonman7 along with @Der_Echte. I'll let those 2 tell you guys about his games, but after his games I played some with @Der_Echte on an empty table. It really reminded me what a great resource having a coach is! The instantaneous feedback is just invaluable. Things that would perhaps take me weeks to discover and fix, I could start fixing the next play. I was not using my elbow as a lever to BH loop backspins, I was not getting low after a service/receive/push, I was not using efficient footwork, etc. etc. I learned so much from @Der_Echte from just an hour or so of playing, really thankful for that!

 

[Shuki]

Shuki, is that you? You are still alive?

haha yes, I lurk every once in a while. married life keeps me busy though.

 

[Der_Echte]

Just like locally here with Ali... Giving mis-information and advice to Dingyibvs is almost cheating.

Dingyibvs can accept it analyze/validate it or reject it, and same session fix the issue to a large degree.

I gave him a ton of nuggets to process, he prolly would have wanted a video camera to be rolling to capture them all, but he will remember most of it or at least the worthy parts well enough.

Dingyibvs spotted me and LDM7 in the Donic gear right off.

 

[JeffM]

I wanted it to be less head heavy, especially considering I currently have my BH rubber cut to a typical Butterfly racket so it'd only get head heavier with a new sheet cut to its size. I used 60 grit sand paper, doesn't take very long.


Have you been exercising your chest?

I'm gonna go back to my first post re: your injury. If you don't exercise it, it'll feel better after a few days, and then linger for forever.

If you exercise it after a few days, it'll feel worse, but then in a couple of days you'll feel slightly better. Then you exercise it again, and it'll feel worse again, but then in another day or two it'll feel slightly better again. Do this a few times and you'll recover quickly. The important thing is that the exercise should be light, only to the point of causing slight pain. And after the exercise you should ice and maybe take a couple Ibuprofen.

Note that I don't recommend taking Ibuprofen before exercising, as it may mask the pain and give you a false sense of where your limit is at. Also, I recommend chest specific exercises rather than those that may use it as an accessory muscle (e.g. squats with heavy weights),as you never know when you might suddenly need to use your chest to support a heavy weight. Better to do it with an exercise that you know already stresses your chest as much as possible with its given weight.

No I have not been exercising it. My pain threshold is normally pretty good, but the pain after is not something that I can just ignore. When I am examining patients in my job and I am getting pain when I am simply pressing on their abdomen, that is not right.

I do try to keep my chest moving, and even if I don't try, my chest moves with what I have to do daily anyway.

The physio whom saw me 1 year ago from the city heard my story, and he actually thinks that I may have torn my pec major. If I bend my elbow and lift my arm above my shoulder height, sometimes it hurts. If I do a forehand movement, at the end of the movement where my elbow is at 90degree and the arm squeezed into my chest, it hurts. If I sit on the side of the bed and put my hands on the bed to push my body upwards, it hurts. He has told me to try get an ultrasound. So I am trying to get one, and it isn't as easy as getting one done in the city, but I am working on it.

I have had 2 days worth of nurofan, and I am feeling better. I am hoping that the anti-inflammatory effect will help heal faster, lessen any swelling and allow me to get back into TT sooner.

 

[NextLevel]

Here is the video unedited.

So I played today with a Timo Boll T5000. It is interesting that the old Innerforce T5000 and the Boll T5000 have similarly shaped handles but different outer plies(limbs vs koto). The first thing that was clear was that I was dealing with something different. The ball was again quicker and lower trajectory, it didn't grab as easily so I had to do a bit more work. But all that said, it made smashing even easier and I can see that on high balls, with these very fast blades, smashing is easier than top spinning when closer to the table and the ball is loose.

I played 4 matches and went 3‐1. Someone took some video so I should share when it becomes available (will take it myself next time and not be so lazy). Will try to get to practice on Tuesday and will hopefully get more into the nuances of the two blade differences then. And I need to put a lot of work into pushing with both blades for sure.

 

[Der_Echte]

@NextLevel There is a Nigerian 2000 level player here named Chris... maybe 6 ft tall, stocky. He has legit skills. Should snap a pic and send you on whatsapp or something.

 

[Der_Echte]

Looks like NextLevel be sporting a Rosenheim uniform in the vid.

 

[Der_Echte]

19:33

Next Level should immediately examine the match ball... I believe written all over the ball were the letters B Y Y A...

By- Ya !!! Like next Level hit the ball by him that it said BY-YA on the way by him..

 

[NextLevel]

19:33

Next Level should immediately examine the match ball... I believe written all over the ball were the letters B Y Y A...

By- Ya !!! Like next Level hit the ball by him that it said BY-YA on the way by him..

Nah - humility is good for TT IMHO. I blocked almost all his forehand loops off the table except that one. It was a good time to make the block.

Watching the match though makes me see how much I haven't adapted to the Boll blade vs my Innerforce T5000 - I even looped some serves long that I pretty much never miss. But I will continue to challenge myself and my touch to improve. Oh, and TT11 just got new stock for the Joola Vyzaryz Trinity (limba outers with a hybrid ALC/ZLC outer fiber), so my EJing has a new target (don't have to buy that Mizutani SZLC just yet lol).

 

[dingyibvs]

Just like locally here with Ali... Giving mis-information and advice to Dingyibvs is almost cheating.

Dingyibvs can accept it analyze/validate it or reject it, and same session fix the issue to a large degree.

I gave him a ton of nuggets to process, he prolly would have wanted a video camera to be rolling to capture them all, but he will remember most of it or at least the worthy parts well enough.

Dingyibvs spotted me and LDM7 in the Donic gear right off.

I think I'll focus on the BH loop vs backspin first, need to land that more consistently to get a block back. One thing we didn't specifically talk about but I noticed is that you wait for the ball to come to you a bit more. Besides not moving back, I noticed also after watching some videos of high level players is that they actually sometimes move forward to meet the ball.

Judging from those things, I think I'm looping backspin from too far in front of my body, I'll need to either let it come to me a bit more, or if it's slow and floaty to even move in a bit.

That, and getting lower in my ready stance will be the specific things I'll be focusing on. I see why you and Bill's pushes to my BH are so much harder for me to handle than lower level players'. I don't know where you guys' pushes are going until the last second, and if I'm not already lower then I don't have enough time to get low then loop. It's not as essential on the FH side because you have extra time as you loop the ball from beside your body rather than in front of it. But even for the FH side it'd help because instead of a push I could be getting a faster shot like a flick.

 

[NextLevel]

I think I'll focus on the BH loop vs backspin first, need to land that more consistently to get a block back. One thing we didn't specifically talk about but I noticed is that you wait for the ball to come to you a bit more. Besides not moving back, I noticed also after watching some videos of high level players is that they actually sometimes move forward to meet the ball.

Judging from those things, I think I'm looping backspin from too far in front of my body, I'll need to either let it come to me a bit more, or if it's slow and floaty to even move in a bit.

That, and getting lower in my ready stance will be the specific things I'll be focusing on. I see why you and Bill's pushes to my BH are so much harder for me to handle than lower level players'. I don't know where you guys' pushes are going until the last second, and if I'm not already lower then I don't have enough time to get low then loop. It's not as essential on the FH side because you have extra time as you loop the ball from beside your body rather than in front of it. But even for the FH side it'd help because instead of a push I could be getting a faster shot like a flick.

Taking backspin early (unless your opponent is giving you float) tends to make your stroke more consistent on the backhand, because backspin can do nasty things if you let it come to you. This video discusses a lot of things - I like the coach because while he is clearly a better player than I am, he says a lot of things I say and I never met him or knew him when I said them. And this is across many videos. I probably stole them from another coach without realizing it lol.

 

[Der_Echte]

When you vid yourself, you can easily see. I showed you the BH strike zone... it is not too far in front of you... like 12 or 13 inches... but you can reach out and extend it a little without giving up much leverage... but that strike zone is pretty small compared to the FH, which is big and dynamic.

One key is elbow in front and the corr4ect amount to the side to set your horizontal portion of the zone, which is also adjustable several inches to each side.

I showed you how to slide your BH strike zone to your right to impact the ball at belly button or even inside a little to get the position to suddenly strike the ball to your opponent's FH without him seeing it coming.

Control of depth and with of strike zone is HUGE important, as well as base position and leverage from stance and prior small movement.

 

[Der_Echte]

On the topic of taking the incoming underspin ball early on the bounce with the BH... (not way in front of zone)...

If the ball bounces middle of table and is coming a few inches long... it is not in your best interests to strike that ball over the table 1.5 feet in front of the endline unless you are sure you see the ball and are in position with leverage... you will miss a lot of plays trying to play outside your skills doing that... but it is a great skill to work on developing.

If the ball bounces deep near endline... THIS is the ball I advocate taking early on the rise with 6 inches in front to 6 inches behind endline depending on how deep and low it bounces. You take ball on the ris half up to net height... since there is a lot of upward vertical energy, you do not need to lift this ball as much (as when you let it fall) so an open ball fast or medium loop works great on this ball great control great effectiveness here.

On the balls not coming deep, but long, I advocate to learn looping at all three speeds (slow, medium, fast) with a focus on spin generation. You can play any of these shots with quality if you can be in position with leverage and know what you want to do. (Which you should have figured out a foot after opponent impacted the ball on other side.)

 

[dingyibvs]

Taking backspin early (unless your opponent is giving you float) tends to make your stroke more consistent on the backhand, because backspin can do nasty things if you let it come to you. This video discusses a lot of things - I like the coach because while he is clearly a better player than I am, he says a lot of things I say and I never met him or knew him when I said them. And this is across many videos. I probably stole them from another coach without realizing it lol.

Got it, I'll try to move up to the ball when they're somewhat slow and shallow to take it a bit earlier. The important thing is not to loop it within the strike zone as @Der_Echte said, so I'll move the strike zone to the ball if it doesn't get to my strike zone quick enough.

On the topic of taking the incoming underspin ball early on the bounce with the BH... (not way in front of zone)...

If the ball bounces middle of table and is coming a few inches long... it is not in your best interests to strike that ball over the table 1.5 feet in front of the endline unless you are sure you see the ball and are in position with leverage... you will miss a lot of plays trying to play outside your skills doing that... but it is a great skill to work on developing.

If the ball bounces deep near endline... THIS is the ball I advocate taking early on the rise with 6 inches in front to 6 inches behind endline depending on how deep and low it bounces. You take ball on the ris half up to net height... since there is a lot of upward vertical energy, you do not need to lift this ball as much (as when you let it fall) so an open ball fast or medium loop works great on this ball great control great effectiveness here.

On the balls not coming deep, but long, I advocate to learn looping at all three speeds (slow, medium, fast) with a focus on spin generation. You can play any of these shots with quality if you can be in position with leverage and know what you want to do. (Which you should have figured out a foot after opponent impacted the ball on other side.)

Thinking back to the days when I first started training my FH loop vs. backspin I actually did a lot of that. I would brush loop one slow, then drive the next one with speed. I really need to remember what worked for me from over a dozen years ago lol.

 

[dingyibvs]

No I have not been exercising it. My pain threshold is normally pretty good, but the pain after is not something that I can just ignore. When I am examining patients in my job and I am getting pain when I am simply pressing on their abdomen, that is not right.

I do try to keep my chest moving, and even if I don't try, my chest moves with what I have to do daily anyway.

The physio whom saw me 1 year ago from the city heard my story, and he actually thinks that I may have torn my pec major. If I bend my elbow and lift my arm above my shoulder height, sometimes it hurts. If I do a forehand movement, at the end of the movement where my elbow is at 90degree and the arm squeezed into my chest, it hurts. If I sit on the side of the bed and put my hands on the bed to push my body upwards, it hurts. He has told me to try get an ultrasound. So I am trying to get one, and it isn't as easy as getting one done in the city, but I am working on it.

I have had 2 days worth of nurofan, and I am feeling better. I am hoping that the anti-inflammatory effect will help heal faster, lessen any swelling and allow me to get back into TT sooner.

Basically all sports related muscle injuries are some level of tear. I seriously doubt that you have a complete tear, so I doubt an ultrasound would change management. While I've treated plenty of patients with MSK injuries, I obviously can't examine you so you just have to make best use of local resources. Ibuprofen can certainly be a very helpful tool, just make sure to stay hydrated and eat something before you take it. I've seen plenty of kidney injuries and GI bleeds caused by NSAID use, and the risk really goes up with age!

 

[NextLevel]

When it comes to spin production, the most important thing above all things, is to follow the shape of the ball (the part where the coach talks about the round ball and the round head and the round earth applies) and to emphasize turning the ball more than giving the ball forward speed. Once that is mastered , then your options expand exponentially.