Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[JeffM]

Can anyone tell me or guide me to some direction where we can chat about table tennis in English ofcourse. in Zoom video chats or something. Is there any group for it?

I'm not sure if such a group exists in TTD, I am assuming you mean chatting in voice with people about table tennis in general? I think this is more an online forum where people posts about table tennis rather than verbally chat about it.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

1. The above is my latest BH loop / open up / topspin against chopped / cut ball.

2. USDC commented my percentage is low; around 40%'ish. Guilty as charged.

3. Yesterday I had an opportunity to play around ten sets with a better skilled pusher / blocker stylist.

4. I was playing with an " I am in training mindset " and was going all out trying to open up a BH with a topspin against his pushes.

5. Not surprisingly I failed miserably with a success rate of 30 or 20%ish. Some of my clubmate said, why do you want to open up on such strong backspin, should have just pushed back. But then as I pointed out, I was in training mode. I truly wanted to train my BH to open up against cut ball.

6. But for those that I manage to open up, the result is very very satisfying. A BH loop to open up and he blocks, the resulting ball pops up high nicely for me to go for my signature FH kill smash / strong drive to get a point.

7. My success rate is slightly better with FH loop open up.

8. So what is my point for this post? My point is, if one is during multi-ball training and one's percentage is around 40%, it is expected that during game play, it is expected to drop to around 20 - 30%.

9. More practice I need for open up against BH cut ball.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

1. The above is my latest BH loop / open up / topspin against chopped / cut ball.

2. USDC commented my percentage is low; around 40%'ish. Guilty as charged.

3. Yesterday I had an opportunity to play around ten sets with a better skilled pusher / blocker stylist.

4. I was playing with an " I am in training mindset " and was going all out trying to open up a BH with a topspin against his pushes.

5. Not surprisingly I failed miserably with a success rate of 30 or 20%ish. Some of my clubmate said, why do you want to open up on such strong backspin, should have just pushed back. But then as I pointed out, I was in training mode. I truly wanted to train my BH to open up against cut ball.

6. But for those that I manage to open up, the result is very very satisfying. A BH loop to open up and he blocks, the resulting ball pops up high nicely for me to go for my signature FH kill smash / strong drive to get a point.

7. My success rate is slightly better with FH loop open up.

8. So what is my point for this post? My point is, if one is during multi-ball training and one's percentage is around 40%, it is expected that during game play, it is expected to drop to around 20 - 30%.

9. More practice I need for open up against BH cut ball.

Another thing that might help you improve these kinds of skills:

Do you ever practice shadow strokes with footwork? Practicing combining the strokes and the footwork without the ball (you don't need the table either) can really help you get the coordination to start using the footwork when the ball is there.

And some of the skill that is needed to open up during a match situation is the footwork that gets you into position to take the ball in your strike zone.

But it is good that you are practicing opening up during match play. You should also practice it during serve and receive drills.

You are working hard to improve. In the end, that is the most important thing. Being realistic is worthwhile. And it always takes hard work to improve at table tennis. A lot of people underestimate how much hard work it takes to improve. So, keep up that work.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Another thing that might help you improve these kinds of skills:

Do you ever practice shadow strokes with footwork? Practicing combining the strokes and the footwork without the ball (you don't need the table either) can really help you get the coordination to start using the footwork when the ball is there.

And some of the skill that is needed to open up during a match situation is the footwork that gets you into position to take the ball in your strike zone.

But it is good that you are practicing opening up during match play. You should also practice it during serve and receive drills.

You are working hard to improve. In the end, that is the most important thing. Being realistic is worthwhile. And it always takes hard work to improve at table tennis. A lot of people underestimate how much hard work it takes to improve. So, keep up that work.

" But it is good that you are practicing opening up during match play. You should also practice it during serve and receive drills. "
Yes I perform this drill as well, which I consider as mere drills. Drills tend to give me higher percentage compared to game play.

" You are working hard to improve. In the end, that is the most important thing. Being realistic is worthwhile. And it always takes hard work to improve at table tennis. A lot of people underestimate how much hard work it takes to improve. So, keep up that work."
Thanks USDC. I've got one more practice session on Thurs ( 13.04.23 ) before heading 4 hours up north during the weekend to play in a tourney. I hope to get a higher BH open up percentage to be a potent trouble-maker during the tourney. I have seen what a well-executed BH open up can do to amateur TT players ( up to intermediate level ). I want it, I want that to be part of my standard play-book.

I want to win some games, I am hungry for some wins. Bragging rights, free beers, fried wings and drummets with hot sauce are some of the perks of winners; free transportation and accommodation notwithstanding

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

" But it is good that you are practicing opening up during match play. You should also practice it during serve and receive drills. "
Yes I perform this drill as well, which I consider as mere drills. Drills tend to give me higher percentage compared to game play.

Do you practice with a training partner (not coach) where you serve, opponent pushes ANYWHERE, AND YOU HAVE TO LOOP, NO MATTER WHAT?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I hope to get a higher BH open up percentage to be a potent trouble-maker during the tourney. I have seen what a well-executed BH open up can do to amateur TT players ( up to intermediate level ). I want it, I want that to be part of my standard play-book.

It is worth thinking long term. In the next 3 days, will you improve your percentages enough to make a difference in your tournament this week? I doubt it. But over the next 6 months, you might.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

It is worth thinking long term. In the next 3 days, will you improve your percentages enough to make a difference in your tournament this week? I doubt it. But over the next 6 months, you might.

I am more than happy to consider these periods as gestational so that I can play the style that I want to play for future me.

 

[NextLevel]

1. The above is my latest BH loop / open up / topspin against chopped / cut ball.

2. USDC commented my percentage is low; around 40%'ish. Guilty as charged.

3. Yesterday I had an opportunity to play around ten sets with a better skilled pusher / blocker stylist.

4. I was playing with an " I am in training mindset " and was going all out trying to open up a BH with a topspin against his pushes.

5. Not surprisingly I failed miserably with a success rate of 30 or 20%ish. Some of my clubmate said, why do you want to open up on such strong backspin, should have just pushed back. But then as I pointed out, I was in training mode. I truly wanted to train my BH to open up against cut ball.

6. But for those that I manage to open up, the result is very very satisfying. A BH loop to open up and he blocks, the resulting ball pops up high nicely for me to go for my signature FH kill smash / strong drive to get a point.

7. My success rate is slightly better with FH loop open up.

8. So what is my point for this post? My point is, if one is during multi-ball training and one's percentage is around 40%, it is expected that during game play, it is expected to drop to around 20 - 30%.

9. More practice I need for open up against BH cut ball.

Usually, a percentage around 40% means that you probably don't use that skill in matches you intend to win because the skill is costing you points. In practice matches, you bring in skills that you are working on but which you have gotten to a reasonable level. But maybe things are different where you train, everyone does this differently. But just about no one I can remember thinks 40% to 20% is anything other than a shot that one should not be using a lot as it is probably building in bad habits.

It will be interesting to see how your technique develops with your current approach to the ball. I used to be a hitter/driver for a long time too, and I developed a reasonably consistent backhand hit that I thought was a backhand loop (until multiple coaches told me it wasn't and I rebuilt the stroke later). Right now, you are so addicted to speed that you can't spin up the ball which is the more appropriate shot and the more consistent shot against backspin for someone learning it. Of course, the hit can work as well, but it isn't clear you are trying to hit the ball, you aren't compensating for the backspin with racket angle adjustments, you seem to be squatting as if to loop, but when you get to the ball, rather than focus on adding rotation, you still smack into it. And when I hit, I don't believe I hit balls this hard unless they were high, I mostly just rolled them with flat hit to remove the backspin.

To cut a long story short, even with your rocket blade, focus on spinning the ball make making the ball go as slowly as possible with as much rotation/spin as you can. This is the quickest way to develop a consistent opener vs backspin. Don't let your addiction to speed make you take forever to do this.

But maybe I should just keep quiet and watch this unfold. The human body is capable of amazing things and just maybe you might develop something special continuing on this path.

 

[dingyibvs]

Usually, a percentage around 40% means that you probably don't use that skill in matches you intend to win because the skill is costing you points. In practice matches, you bring in skills that you are working on but which you have gotten to a reasonable level. But maybe things are different where you train, everyone does this differently. But just about no one I can remember thinks 40% to 20% is anything other than a shot that one should not be using a lot as it is probably building in bad habits.

It will be interesting to see how your technique develops with your current approach to the ball. I used to be a hitter/driver for a long time too, and I developed a reasonably consistent backhand hit that I thought was a backhand loop (until multiple coaches told me it wasn't and I rebuilt the stroke later). Right now, you are so addicted to speed that you can't spin up the ball which is the more appropriate shot and the more consistent shot against backspin for someone learning it. Of course, the hit can work as well, but it isn't clear you are trying to hit the ball, you aren't compensating for the backspin with racket angle adjustments, you seem to be squatting as if to loop, but when you get to the ball, rather than focus on adding rotation, you still smack into it. And when I hit, I don't believe I hit balls this hard unless they were high, I mostly just rolled them with flat hit to remove the backspin.

To cut a long story short, even with your rocket blade, focus on spinning the ball make making the ball go as slowly as possible with as much rotation/spin as you can. This is the quickest way to develop a consistent opener vs backspin. Don't let your addiction to speed make you take forever to do this.

But maybe I should just keep quiet and watch this unfold. The human body is capable of amazing things and just maybe you might develop something special continuing on this path.

I agree with this approach. IMO you shouldn't be attempting shots that you can't make at least 80% in practice, and that's being conservative. When you're only hitting 40% in practice it means that you have no feel for the shot yet. What happens then is that when you miss in games, you have no idea what went wrong. Was your footwork bad? Did you misjudge the spin? Did you mistime the shot? Did you aim too high/low? Some combination of the above plus more? When you don't know what went wrong, you won't know how to go about fixing it. Attempting to do so may actually build bad habits as you're going off of the wrong information.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Usually, a percentage around 40% means that you probably don't use that skill in matches you intend to win because the skill is costing you points. In practice matches, you bring in skills that you are working on but which you have gotten to a reasonable level. But maybe things are different where you train, everyone does this differently. But just about no one I can remember thinks 40% to 20% is anything other than a shot that one should not be using a lot as it is probably building in bad habits.

It will be interesting to see how your technique develops with your current approach to the ball. I used to be a hitter/driver for a long time too, and I developed a reasonably consistent backhand hit that I thought was a backhand loop (until multiple coaches told me it wasn't and I rebuilt the stroke later). Right now, you are so addicted to speed that you can't spin up the ball which is the more appropriate shot and the more consistent shot against backspin for someone learning it. Of course, the hit can work as well, but it isn't clear you are trying to hit the ball, you aren't compensating for the backspin with racket angle adjustments, you seem to be squatting as if to loop, but when you get to the ball, rather than focus on adding rotation, you still smack into it. And when I hit, I don't believe I hit balls this hard unless they were high, I mostly just rolled them with flat hit to remove the backspin.

To cut a long story short, even with your rocket blade, focus on spinning the ball make making the ball go as slowly as possible with as much rotation/spin as you can. This is the quickest way to develop a consistent opener vs backspin. Don't let your addiction to speed make you take forever to do this.

But maybe I should just keep quiet and watch this unfold. The human body is capable of amazing things and just maybe you might develop something special continuing on this path.

I agree with this approach. IMO you shouldn't be attempting shots that you can't make at least 80% in practice, and that's being conservative. When you're only hitting 40% in practice it means that you have no feel for the shot yet. What happens then is that when you miss in games, you have no idea what went wrong. Was your footwork bad? Did you misjudge the spin? Did you mistime the shot? Did you aim too high/low? Some combination of the above plus more? When you don't know what went wrong, you won't know how to go about fixing it. Attempting to do so may actually build bad habits as you're going off of the wrong information.

Yeah. For Gozo to actually make improvement on this, a lot of things would have to fall into place. The first thing would be, in match and simulated match training, his recover to a neutral position so he can see where the next ball is going would have to improve EXPONENTIALLY. And second, he would have to do a better job of seeing where the next ball is going. And third, he would have to move to the ball to get the ball in his strike zone to make the shot.

None of those things are happening. So the likelyhood of him improving the skill without those fundamentals in place is pretty low.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Do you practice with a training partner (not coach) where you serve, opponent pushes ANYWHERE, AND YOU HAVE TO LOOP, NO MATTER WHAT?

Just to clarify....perhaps you are not ready for random placement, but, if you are not practicing a drill vs random placement where you don't know where the ball will go and you have to read and move to it, the drill is rudimentary and will not get you to be able to do this in match play. However, you do have to start with getting the skill to loop backspin. And to do that, for a while you might need to know where the ball is going till you are over 90% on accuracy, then you would need to add the random element. Then you would need to have the person pushing trying to mess you up with his push.

In match play, a good opponent pushing will be trying to mess you up. You have to be able to adjust to that before you can do the skill in match play. I would say, you have a lot of work to do.

These are, honestly, low level skills. Usually, when a player is over 1100 (USATT rating) they have some competency in these skills. That you have not developed these skills as of yet would speak to giant gaps in what you have worked on. And not having these skills would prevent you from being at a higher level than, say, 1000 because, you can't get to the attacking and mid-distance rallying stages of match play without handling serve and receive.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Oh how I love you guys acting like those ring-master / announcers prior to fight night. Luv it! Luv it!

Come this Sat all shall be known.

Glorious Victory

Or Utter Defeat Crash and Burn baby

 

[Der_Echte]

There is a LOT more crash and burn required to grow than one would think, still valuable data.

 

[NextLevel]

Oh how I love you guys acting like those ring-master / announcers prior to fight night. Luv it! Luv it!

Come this Sat all shall be known.

Glorious Victory
View attachment 24938

Or Utter Defeat Crash and Burn baby
View attachment 24939

From gestational to glorious victory just like that - I love it!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

In the end, as long as you are having fun, it is all good.

Can you remind me of how you did last time in the SINGLES event? How far in the knockout bracket did you get? What seed did you get out of your round robin group?

 

[dingyibvs]

Just to clarify....perhaps you are not ready for random placement, but, if you are not practicing a drill vs random placement where you don't know where the ball will go and you have to read and move to it, the drill is rudimentary and will not get you to be able to do this in match play. However, you do have to start with getting the skill to loop backspin. And to do that, for a while you might need to know where the ball is going till you are over 90% on accuracy, then you would need to add the random element. Then you would need to have the person pushing trying to mess you up with his push.

In match play, a good opponent pushing will be trying to mess you up. You have to be able to adjust to that before you can do the skill in match play. I would say, you have a lot of work to do.

These are, honestly, low level skills. Usually, when a player is over 1100 (USATT rating) they have some competency in these skills. That you have not developed these skills as of yet would speak to giant gaps in what you have worked on. And not having these skills would prevent you from being at a higher level than, say, 1000 because, you can't get to the attacking and mid-distance rallying stages of match play without handling serve and receive.

LOL I guess I'm he exception. I had basically zero skills in BH loops vs backspin and made it far above 1000. It's a real pain to go back to the basics to develop a BH game, especially since even after I made a lot of improvements it still wasn't a net positive for my game at the level I'm trying to compete in.

Just to give @Gozo an idea of what level of accuracy is needed in practice. You guys saw how awful my BH opening loop was in my practice games. Well, in single location practices I was hitting damn near 100%, and in multiple locations over 80%. It still wasn't enough, as not only did I need to land the shot in games, they need to have enough quality not to give the opponent an easy ball to attack.

 

[dingyibvs]

So there was an interesting scenario during a practice match yesterday. My opponent let go of his racket when hitting a net ball, I pushed it back, then he pushed it back with his bare hand. I didn't react to that ball, but he says it counts. It was a practice match so it didn't really matter, but I'm wondering how that would count in a real game? I'm not sure if the racket was still in his hand when he hit it back the first time, but let's assume it was so that first shot is good. But for the second shot with his bare hand, my understanding is that hitting with the racket hand below the wrist is fine as it often happens, but after you let go of the racket does it still count as the racket hand?

 

[t.t.s.t.a.r]

So there was an interesting scenario during a practice match yesterday. My opponent let go of his racket when hitting a net ball, I pushed it back, then he pushed it back with his bare hand. I didn't react to that ball, but he says it counts. It was a practice match so it didn't really matter, but I'm wondering how that would count in a real game? I'm not sure if the racket was still in his hand when he hit it back the first time, but let's assume it was so that first shot is good. But for the second shot with his bare hand, my understanding is that hitting with the racket hand below the wrist is fine as it often happens, but after you let go of the racket does it still count as the racket hand?

ITTF level 1 umpire here (I'm trying to get level 2)
It would definitely count as your point in a match.
Hitting it purposefully with anything other than the racket itself is illegal.
You can accidentally hit the ball with your finger or something but hitting it like that is against the rules.

Another interesting thing I encountered at our local interclub was a very experienced player who is well respected and very good during a game he was losing insisted that all of a sudden it is against the rules t stand inside the white line on the table to serve. Of course the ball has to be behind it but he isnsisted that you werent allowed to stand on the inside of it and ended up putting the other player off and winning because he was yelling at them for like 3 minutes and definitely would have gotten at least a yellow card if it was a tournament.

 

[NextLevel]

I

ITTF level 1 umpire here (I'm trying to get level 2)
It would definitely count as your point in a match.
Hitting it purposefully with anything other than the racket itself is illegal.
You can accidentally hit the ball with your finger or something but hitting it like that is against the rules.

Another interesting thing I encountered at our local interclub was a very experienced player who is well respected and very good during a game he was losing insisted that all of a sudden it is against the rules t stand inside the white line on the table to serve. Of course the ball has to be behind it but he isnsisted that you werent allowed to stand on the inside of it and ended up putting the other player off and winning because he was yelling at them for like 3 minutes and definitely would have gotten at least a yellow card if it was a tournament.

Yes, this was pretty much my evaluation. When the racket is in the hand, it is okay to hit it with the hand (either by accident or deliberately, the latter mostly because of the rule update to to make the ball hitting the racket hand legal so that you don't have to have an honest opponent to know whether the contact was legal or not). But the racket has to be in the hand that touched the ball - once that is gone, the hand cannot play the point by itself.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

In the end, as long as you are having fun, it is all good.

Can you remind me of how you did last time in the SINGLES event? How far in the knockout bracket did you get? What seed did you get out of your round robin group?

Yeah! You are right. At the end of the day, for context, we are just a bunch of hobbyist ribbing each other for some social interaction. None of us livelihood is dependent on playing TT, so it should be all for fun. It should not be taken too seriously, at least I don't.

In my previous tourney, in the MS event, I obtained 3rd place in my group of 4 pax. I did not get to enter into the knock-out stage ( R32 ).