Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

My favourite serves is sidespin ones, I like them cause I can get higher ball back and attack it quickly. Plus it really is, that many good players just not able to handle them for some reason. That's how I win most of the "better players with more experience" So serve variety is good.

But if you don't have it - just by using simple variants backhand under/side/ you can play with a lot of success if you execute powerful attacking shot after them

For me it is actually the opposite - my favorite was no spin service because I usually know the ball will come back light and I can attack with power no matter the height. But it requires good movement and anticipation so I need to be ready to play physical when I am serving mostly no spin. Because I have heavy backspin service, the combination usually scored me good points. But I need to be ready to play physical.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Practice can be different, there is a lot of guys, that training for decades and doing the same mistakes all over again. But, I guess, they just turn off their brain, and kinda meditate by sending balls to each other, rather trying to make an improvement on something. They sometimes doing drill pretty well, but then when match is starting, there is some kind of “instinct of surviving” kicks in - and they make the same mistakes all over again.

So yeah, practice is everything, but you need to practice with a specific goal and mindset, what exactly you are need or trying to improve. And trying to always keep it in mind - focusing on it. Rather then just randomly “practice”

well, that applies to match play
if you are not trying to always keep it in mind and focusing on it, match play you will look like a amateur, while practice you will look like a pro

it happens to so many, and so little succeed.

in academia, there are thousands of PHD per year.
In table tennis, there is only 1 winner.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

For me it is actually the opposite - my favorite was no spin service because I usually know the ball will come back light and I can attack with power no matter the height. But it requires good movement and anticipation so I need to be ready to play physical when I am serving mostly no spin. Because I have heavy backspin service, the combination usually scored me good points. But I need to be ready to play physical.

i remember when I was still a kid, a coach told me you only need to learn two serves.
under spin serve and no spin serve.

 

[SleepyMaster]

i remember when I was still a kid, a coach told me you only need to learn two serves.
under spin serve and no spin serve.

That’s the easiest way, coach is know what he is talking about

For me it is actually the opposite - my favorite was no spin service because I usually know the ball will come back light and I can attack with power no matter the height. But it requires good movement and anticipation so I need to be ready to play physical when I am serving mostly no spin. Because I have heavy backspin service, the combination usually scored me good points. But I need to be ready to play physical.

You need to be physical, if you want to play strong attack no matter what spin it is. But underspin/no spin is the easiest way to learning, how to gain points on a mixing of a serves

 

[NextLevel]

That’s the easiest way, coach is know what he is talking about

You need to be physical, if you want to play strong attack no matter what spin it is. But underspin/no spin is the easiest way to learning, how to gain points on a mixing of a serves

well, physical is true for high level play in general, but the reason why no spin is physical is because a good opponent will use the lack of spin to place it deceptively, so you need to be ready for many returns. With sidespin, sometimes you have already narrowed the angle, so unless you have really strong opponent, and sometimes even with really strong opponent, you know where the ball will go most of the time.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

yeh i can post videos of recent matches. I'm REALLY trying to improve on that, and practice a lot. But i don't have much other advice from the coach than "practice-practice and practice..."

Like you say, in critical moments if the receiver can put me out of position on wide or short FH if i do pendulum serve to his BH, then ofc i will not do it. I prefer to serve BH (and long), i feel it should be easier to recover, but against the good players, they show me im often not fast enough (or serve with enough quality)

i'll try to find a recent match video with some obvious examples...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

yeh i can post videos of recent matches. I'm REALLY trying to improve on that, and practice a lot. But i don't have much other advice from the coach than "practice-practice and practice..."

Like you say, in critical moments if the receiver can put me out of position on wide or short FH if i do pendulum serve to his BH, then ofc i will not do it. I prefer to serve BH (and long), i feel it should be easier to recover, but against the good players, they show me im often not fast enough (or serve with enough quality)

i'll try to find a recent match video with some obvious examples...

well, some players are just a bit slow in match play. I hope you are not like that.

I have tried to help many 2000+ players who are high level during training, but match play, the mind just can't keep up with the tempo from the opponent and always seems to be half a second late.

we call it, training okay, match not okay.

change your serving position then, don't serve on the far backhand.

 

[NextLevel]

yeh i can post videos of recent matches. I'm REALLY trying to improve on that, and practice a lot. But i don't have much other advice from the coach than "practice-practice and practice..."

Like you say, in critical moments if the receiver can put me out of position on wide or short FH if i do pendulum serve to his BH, then ofc i will not do it. I prefer to serve BH (and long), i feel it should be easier to recover, but against the good players, they show me im often not fast enough (or serve with enough quality)

i'll try to find a recent match video with some obvious examples...

In all this, quality of serve always matters. If one is not serving with quality relative to the level, one will always be slow. The perfect serve is fast double bounce short with second bounce close to the end line and stays low so that the opponent has hard choices to make about whether to wait for long ball or to take the ball early. Also can't tell the amount of spin just from looking at the serve until the ball is close. If you are serving half long but the serve reliably goes long or even too short (which makes it bounce high) and the spin is predictable, you can recover all you want, you will be losing the point too fast because nothing you are doing is slowing down a high level opponent. Against the physical opponents, you slow them down with quality and deception, you can't just rely on one or the other.

Serving long is Russian roulette on many levels.

 

[SleepyMaster]

well, physical is true for high level play in general, but the reason why no spin is physical is because a good opponent will use the lack of spin to place it deceptively, so you need to be ready for many returns. With sidespin, sometimes you have already narrowed the angle, so unless you have really strong opponent, and sometimes even with really strong opponent, you know where the ball will go most of the time.

It dependents a lot on a level of a receiver, for example, my coach can send the ball to whatever place of the table that he wants - no matter how much side spin in it. And many good players from our team, with proper ball feeling can do it quite good.

But most amateurs yes - they getting overwhelmed my rotation and mostly can send a ball to a pretty awaited part of the table, they mostly be happy, if the ball just will hit a table at whatever placement

 

[NextLevel]

It dependents a lot on a level of a receiver, for example, my coach can send the ball to whatever place of the table that he wants - no matter how much side spin in it. And many good players from our team, with proper ball feeling can do it quite good.

But most amateurs yes - they getting overwhelmed my rotation and mostly can send a ball to a pretty awaited part of the table, they mostly be happy, if the ball just will hit a table at whatever placement

It feels that way with the sidespin but they, even the advanced player, are taking more risk to get those placements. And when you combine it with precise ball placement, the risks go up even more. So the speed when they place it unless the ball is high will be slower than the speed when they place to the natural cross court that is open. What usually messes us up is the premature anticipation but once you don't prematurely anticipate (they have slowed you down a bit on your preferred return), then you also gain time on their weaker returns.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

was trying to look for videos of myself.
nothing recent, as I normally record other's training.

saw this one on Facebook and decided to post on youtube to share here.

If my memory is correct, first knock post covid lockdown.
the school was still empty (don't think kids were back until a week later)

I am in black, and I have to say, that black shirt doesn't fit me any more. I think the shirt shrunk by the washing machine

 

[blahness]

In all this, quality of serve always matters. If one is not serving with quality relative to the level, one will always be slow. The perfect serve is fast double bounce short with second bounce close to the end line and stays low so that the opponent has hard choices to make about whether to wait for long ball or to take the ball early. Also can't tell the amount of spin just from looking at the serve until the ball is close. If you are serving half long but the serve reliably goes long or even too short (which makes it bounce high) and the spin is predictable, you can recover all you want, you will be losing the point too fast because nothing you are doing is slowing down a high level opponent. Against the physical opponents, you slow them down with quality and deception, you can't just rely on one or the other.

Serving long is Russian roulette on many levels.

Agreed with all points. Imo serving long is indeed Russian roulette (offering the 1st attack to the opponent) but it's essential to keep opponent's guessing so that they miss the perfect timing on the short serves.

Even if the serve is short, if a high level player anticipates it and catches the perfect timing, you're already in trouble because they can do so many things with it and place it to all corners, especially if they have long pips. Sometimes serving fast long is preferable to having to deal with the amount of variation coming from a short receive, especially if you have a good block. Especially against pips, I almost always prefer to serve fast long to various placements (mostly middle or wide BH), as I'm not afraid of whatever pips attack they can do, but I'm a lot more afraid of their short receive. Waldner also served long against Liu Guoliang almost exclusively in the last few matches which he won conclusively.

The really annoying serves are those that are sometimes short, sometimes half long, sometimes fast long to various placenents, and they all have the same preparation movement so you have absolutely no clue beforehand. If I thought it was short but it's long, it reduces my percentages and quality of whatever over the table stroke I have. If I thought it's long and it's short then I have to cancel my loop movement halfway and do a late push/flick which will almost always be low quality and get attacked hard the next ball...

 

[JJ Ng]

It dependents a lot on a level of a receiver, for example, my coach can send the ball to whatever place of the table that he wants - no matter how much side spin in it. And many good players from our team, with proper ball feeling can do it quite good.

But most amateurs yes - they getting overwhelmed my rotation and mostly can send a ball to a pretty awaited part of the table, they mostly be happy, if the ball just will hit a table at whatever placement

Sometimes when you practice with someone lower level than you are, you can serve easy on them so you can get some practice in. No point to keep them hitting the balls out or into the net. You cannot get better.

Also agree with side spin. If side spin is given short, many players might have trouble with that at certain part of the table. Like you said, they can pop it up. But once they pop it out, you have to remember what side spin you give them so you can contact the ball correctly.

I think there are just so many variation in spin combinations plus location variation on the table, I have also used a traditional pendulum serve. I have not had the desire to learn reverse pendulum serve. I am lazy in that way.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Sometimes when you practice with someone lower level than you are, you can serve easy on them so you can get some practice in. No point to keep them hitting the balls out or into the net. You cannot get better.

Also agree with side spin. If side spin is given short, many players might have trouble with that at certain part of the table. Like you said, they can pop it up. But once they pop it out, you have to remember what side spin you give them so you can contact the ball correctly.

I think there are just so many variation in spin combinations plus location variation on the table, I have also used a traditional pendulum serve. I have not had the desire to learn reverse pendulum serve. I am lazy in that way.

Yeah, when I just training with a friend, I will mostly serving easy drives to just keep the ball on the table.

But I’m mostly talking about tourney Saturday play, when most of the people is much more experienced, so if I give them easy serves - they will bit the shit out of me. So ofc I came to win, not to just practice, I have practicing for whole week with a coach, and get more then enough practice. Tourney play is kinda different - you mostly playing for the win

When I firstly came to my team Saturday tourney my strongest side was - side spin pendulum serve, and a forehand topspin. So it would be pretty stupid, not to using it, losing to everyone, but getting some “practice”. So I was trying to win as much as I can, with the things that I developed already

 

[blahness]

Sometimes when you practice with someone lower level than you are, you can serve easy on them so you can get some practice in. No point to keep them hitting the balls out or into the net. You cannot get better.

Also agree with side spin. If side spin is given short, many players might have trouble with that at certain part of the table. Like you said, they can pop it up. But once they pop it out, you have to remember what side spin you give them so you can contact the ball correctly.

I think there are just so many variation in spin combinations plus location variation on the table, I have also used a traditional pendulum serve. I have not had the desire to learn reverse pendulum serve. I am lazy in that way.

You should check out the hook serve imo, it's a major point winner for me personally because people don't see it very often, and also much easier to execute compared to reverse pendulum. There's a ton of tutorials on WRM which teach the hook serve.

 

[SleepyMaster]

You should check out the hook serve imo, it's a major point winner for me personally because people don't see it very often, and also much easier to execute compared to reverse pendulum. There's a ton of tutorials on WRM which teach the hook serve.

Dunno, for me it’s kinda unpleasant to do but i have tried it for five times 😁

 

[JJ Ng]

You should check out the hook serve imo, it's a major point winner for me personally because people don't see it very often, and also much easier to execute compared to reverse pendulum. There's a ton of tutorials on WRM which teach the hook serve.

I think I should check it out. It looks easy enough. I think you have to really rotate your body into the serve!

 

[NextLevel]

Agreed with all points. Imo serving long is indeed Russian roulette (offering the 1st attack to the opponent) but it's essential to keep opponent's guessing so that they miss the perfect timing on the short serves.

Even if the serve is short, if a high level player anticipates it and catches the perfect timing, you're already in trouble because they can do so many things with it and place it to all corners, especially if they have long pips. Sometimes serving fast long is preferable to having to deal with the amount of variation coming from a short receive, especially if you have a good block. Especially against pips, I almost always prefer to serve fast long to various placements (mostly middle or wide BH), as I'm not afraid of whatever pips attack they can do, but I'm a lot more afraid of their short receive. Waldner also served long against Liu Guoliang almost exclusively in the last few matches which he won conclusively.

The really annoying serves are those that are sometimes short, sometimes half long, sometimes fast long to various placenents, and they all have the same preparation movement so you have absolutely no clue beforehand. If I thought it was short but it's long, it reduces my percentages and quality of whatever over the table stroke I have. If I thought it's long and it's short then I have to cancel my loop movement halfway and do a late push/flick which will almost always be low quality and get attacked hard the next ball...

Yes, slowing down the opponent with variation and deception is helpful and if course if you have no chance in the short game, then go long. The most important thing is the quality of the serve and in my experience, a quality short serve is much harder to make than a quality long serve, but it is also much more constraining and the quality long serve is Russian roulette for that reason. Even against pips players, quality short serves put them in boxes though I can see that Waldner not practicing against Liu Guoliang everyday and not using tacky rubber can't waste valuable points figuring him out.

 

[blahness]

Tried tweaking my FH to incorporate the upper body guiding technique and I think it definitely works. The spin quality and control is definitely much better, I just need to learn how to control this movement. It too often resulted in me applying too much power to the ball and it going long. I tried using it in matches and as expected lost all of the matches trying to incorporate this new movement.

 

[SleepyMaster]

I think I should check it out. It looks easy enough. I think you have to really rotate your body into the serve!

I guess the wrist and a fingers is more important in that serve, as in many serves, but I maybe wrong - I’m do not perform it just trying out for few times