Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[dingyibvs]

Had a solid go at the round robin last night. Was #2 at my table but won all 5 of my matches. I've been focusing on taking a small step a moment before my opponent serves the ball. Once the ball is hit and i can see exactly where it s going, i take another small (or large if its wide) step to get into the best possible receive position.

I literally just started doing this a week ago after watching a video of Fang Bo teaching his students this and it's already paying off. The first week, it sort of threw off my timing so i think i actually missed some points. but in week two, i'm 100% in better position for serve returns. One opponent, who almost always gets 90% of his serve points against me..... i was getting at least 40% of his serves last night using this technique.

Video in mention:

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I've been trying to incorporate the same thing. You're right, at first it actually slows you down, I think part of it is that I naturally tend to commit a bit with that first step when it should just be used to "load" my legs so I can take the second, bigger step more quickly and accurately.

I play against this one Cpen player often who serves mostly fast, deep, long serves to my BH side with top, under, and no spin variations. He hides it completely with his off hand so the only way I can read it is by its bounce. Consequently, I have to back off the table a bit to give me enough time to read and react to it, and he counters that by serving very short dead serves to mix things up. With this new step I'm now able to stay back but still be able to reach the short ones quickly enough for a solid return. Consequently I came the closest ever to beating him last week, lost in the 5th set in deuces.

 

[dingyibvs]

I dont remember . Probably some San-ei table

Btw on the video it’s only up to G4. G5 was recorded separately due to an incident

That was a nice match, a lot of nice rallies, great counter loops! I notice that he serves a lot of spin/no-spin combo to your FH side and feast off your floaty returns. I don't know if you're comfortable with pushing short off the bounce, but if you're not he seemed to struggle when you push deep to him which you seemed to pick up on as well. I wonder if he adjusted to that in the 5th?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

That was a nice match, a lot of nice rallies, great counter loops! I notice that he serves a lot of spin/no-spin combo to your FH side and feast off your floaty returns. I don't know if you're comfortable with pushing short off the bounce, but if you're not he seemed to struggle when you push deep to him which you seemed to pick up on as well. I wonder if he adjusted to that in the 5th?

My poor ability to read spin and length is a big weakness in my game still. I would say the main one compared to the rest of my game.

I’m now trying more now to react instead of guessing and anticipating when receiving but I need more time for improve and gain confidence and be able and to adapt to any serve

In G5 IIRC he just served with his BH and I wasn’t sure how to handle it and i played a too easy loop to his FH side instead of aiming the middle or the BH and he could play a immediate winner. He did it that a bit already in G4. But in G5 i missed also the table by an inch a few times , he got the early lead and I exhausted all my luck in prior games.

 

[Jslick89]

I've been trying to incorporate the same thing. You're right, at first it actually slows you down, I think part of it is that I naturally tend to commit a bit with that first step when it should just be used to "load" my legs so I can take the second, bigger step more quickly and accurately.

I play against this one Cpen player often who serves mostly fast, deep, long serves to my BH side with top, under, and no spin variations. He hides it completely with his off hand so the only way I can read it is by its bounce. Consequently, I have to back off the table a bit to give me enough time to read and react to it, and he counters that by serving very short dead serves to mix things up. With this new step I'm now able to stay back but still be able to reach the short ones quickly enough for a solid return. Consequently I came the closest ever to beating him last week, lost in the 5th set in deuces.

haha dude are you me? the guy i referenced in my post is also a cpen player. Except he likes to serve wide (long and short, dead, top spin and backspin) to my forehand a lot. Doing these extra two steps on my return really puts me in the good posistion, especially with forehand returns where you really have a little more time to react than you think, especially if the serve is going long.

I still am not sure if the hop or the step with one foot works better for me though. still experimenting. i have another round robin tonight. i didn't sleep much last night though. hopefully i can still kick ass like i did last night!

 

[dingyibvs]

My poor ability to read spin and length is a big weakness in my game still. I would say the main one compared to the rest of my game.

I’m now trying more now to react instead of guessing and anticipating when receiving but I need more time for improve and gain confidence and be able and to adapt to any serve

In G5 IIRC he just served with his BH and I wasn’t sure how to handle it and i played a too easy loop to his FH side instead of aiming the middle or the BH and he could play a immediate winner. He did it that a bit already in G4. But in G5 i missed also the table by an inch a few times , he got the early lead and I exhausted all my luck in prior games.

Ah OK, he did have some success with the BH serve at the end of G4, but at least on video they seemed easier to return than his FH serves. I think if you play him a couple more times you'd probably be able to beat him!

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Ah OK, he did have some success with the BH serve at the end of G4, but at least on video they seemed easier to return than his FH serves. I think if you play him a couple more times you'd probably be able to beat him!

They probably were easier but I made the wrong decisions.

OTOH I had a lot of success returning his down the line long serve with my BH which was probably much more difficult but that just demonstrates that my technique is uneven and probably I was in a good day for that BH and that’s not yet reproductible in every match

 

[dingyibvs]

haha dude are you me? the guy i referenced in my post is also a cpen player. Except he likes to serve wide (long and short, dead, top spin and backspin) to my forehand a lot. Doing these extra two steps on my return really puts me in the good posistion, especially with forehand returns where you really have a little more time to react than you think, especially if the serve is going long.

I still am not sure if the hop or the step with one foot works better for me though. still experimenting. i have another round robin tonight. i didn't sleep much last night though. hopefully i can still kick ass like i did last night!

I'm hopping before the service, so that I'm ready to take the first step ASAP. That first step is basically used to shift my center of gravity, allowing my second step to move my body more accurately and efficiently. Idk if it matters if it's a step or a hop in that context. The actual amount of movement is minimal and IMO not the reason it facilitate the next step.

 

[dingyibvs]

They probably were easier but I made the wrong decisions.

OTOH I had a lot of success returning his down the line long serve with my BH which was probably much more difficult but that just demonstrates that my technique is uneven and probably I was in a good day for that BH and that’s not yet reproductible in every match

Yes, I was really impressed by your BH receives! Lefties often use that to great effect as we're usually not ready for it. I was pretty impressed with your BH in general, it had great pace and placement down the line or to his middle

 

[Jslick89]

@Der_Echte isn’t lying when he says he plays in his chaklas!!

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Yes, I was really impressed by your BH receives! Lefties often use that to great effect as we're usually not ready for it. I was pretty impressed with your BH in general, it had great pace and placement down the line or to his middle

Thanks. The main advice that my coach give me against leftie serve (or similar spin) is to wait with the right foot ahead and contact the ball slightly on the left side if I play with BH

Then my BH form is compact that helps to react quickly.

Usually my BH is more dangerous than my FH because I manage to put more spin and variation but i still lack consistency in opening shots.
but during those 4 games I’m (exceptionally ) consistent that’s why I’m causing problems to my opponent until then.

 

[Der_Echte]

@Jslick89 saw me in a not so happy mode and a neutral mode in local league tonite in TWO moments.

First was right after I lost 13-15 in 5th after so many lets, nets (including one where brother of opponent nearly ran into me at 13-13 to retrieve a ball) (opponent tried to give me a let and I refused) and I had so many excuses like I waz wearing slippers (shoes were in rucksack in another car) table was bad, let every point, opponent had 3+ mets every game he won etc we all had those nights and we all have excuses like a-holes but bottom line is I need to get hips down and have better posture despite age and be in position and leverage... that cost me the critical points over the bad conditions and I gotta get way better at that or I gunna be an over the hill has-been chump change moter-scooter suka.

Second where I was battling a recently improved player who gives some advanced players (think 2100+ USATT rated hitter) and dude prays and plays and wins more. I made a fast BH hit vs a serve, opponent fast countered and I faster countered down short side of table for a spectacular looking winner. (I ended up overcoming 0-2 deficit in games to win)

The first scenario is more important how I handle and respond.. on a mental level of course, but my old age and bad posture (despite a recent 30 LB weight loss) is atrocious and disturbing. Of course I been coaching too long and not so much singles matches as needed and naturally things gunna trend this way, but hot damn..., but this is damned offending myself and I gotta get real better real soon or I am busted crap.

 

[Der_Echte]

Speaking of @Jslick89 I have not been going to his TT garage much in the last few months, but it is obvious that the temp here are too hot to mess with TT in a garage at 7 PM in this time of year... unless i wanna lose more weight and health worse than bad sauna.

 

[Der_Echte]

If/when the temps cool I should bring handmade ready to bake 24 hr proof/rise bread dough to bake to eat with butter so hiz family can enjoy. I did that recently with UKR player Vadim.

 

[Jslick89]

Speaking of @Jslick89 I have not been going to his TT garage much in the last few months, but it is obvious that the temp here are too hot to mess with TT in a garage at 7 PM in this time of year... unless i wanna lose more weight and health worse than bad sauna.

Seriously man! It’s crazy that we are excited for 90 degree weather lol. My garage is insulated so it’s basically been off limits except for playing on the robot where it’s probably only 90 degrees in the garage on those 100+ degree days. Once it cools down, you will have to stop by. I got some cardboard barrier too so we won’t have to use that ol beater car of yours to stop the balls from going down.

 

[NextLevel]

I played this match a few weeks ago against a young university student. He is very well trained and has imo a quite nice looking classical leftie technique. Good serves and very strong FH 3rd ball attack and drive. But his BH was not so good.

after losing G1 and G2 I dominate G3 and G4 but a subtle change of tactics enabled my opponent to win comfortably in G5.
It isn’t my best match, and it wasn’t a very important tournament but it’s the best match performance that I’ve ever recorded so far .

There are many good rallies. Countertopspin play. Very good receiving, especially with BH, and there is even a rare FH flick winner. Whenever I gave a low return or not difficult ball, my opponent killed the ball with no mercy and style so I quickly new I had to play my AAA game.

I’m also happy of my positive attitude and self -belief during the whole match

Ofc I hope I can always play at this level in the future. But for example last match I played a week later, I was quite mediocre and back to old antics 😂…(even I managed to win in deuce in g5 but to a much weaker opponent)
I have the video but don’t wanna show it

I misread the post originally and didn't realize until reading later conversations that you lost the 5th set. I watched the match and it was pretty nice.


On the weaker player thing: while I (and I am sure everyone here) loves counterlooping points, it is very important to appreciate winning ugly and especially some of the psychology and tactics that are tied to it. Players like Kato Miyu and Zhu Yuling won a lot of matches by just giving their opponents spin variations and timings that caused frustration. It was great this week to be reminded by @dingyibvs of how serves with low forward energy can mess up players who like to use the forward momentum of the ball to fuel and time their aggressive receives and it helped me a bit yesterday (Baal used to talk about it as well). One of the things that has helped me play better recently is that my ugly play, by which I mean my ability to block and just put the ball back in play with poor technique and positioning just to get the opponent to hit one more shot, has gotten better.

Recently, Heming Hu (former Australian/Oceania champion but not strong enough to keep the young juniors who are trained internationally from a young age from dominating him hence he went into relatively early retirement) pointed out that when he plays pips players, the game is always going to be ugly and that sometimes, it is your desire to play a beautiful game that makes you lose. Sometimes, weaker opponents force you to play an uglier game because the quality is not there and table tennis is not a beauty contest. In fact, most stronger players I know play a relatively ugly touch game against weaker opponents and just pick spots to attack. If my serve and third ball game is working, the game might look beautiful, but if not, the game gets ugly really fast.

So it is okay to be annoyed/embarassed with your struggles with the weaker player, but you did the most important part (you won).

 

[NextLevel]

So I have been enjoying my play recently, my new setup has been playing well, I am convinced I prefer orange sponge Skyline 3 to Blue sponge Skyline 3, while I still want to try D80, D05 has been good for me. The EJ in me wants to test Skyline 3 and D05 on the Cybershape since I like that blade's handle, but regardless, I am content and not in a rush to change.

We now have a club (supports pickleball and badminton as well) that opened up about 40 minutes drive from me on a good day 50 minutes on bad days) with new premium Gewo tables. So I now have a stable place to practice and coach - I might have mentioned this earlier.

I did go to the Texas Wesleyan weekly club on the Sunday last week and while I won my matches, I probably herniated a disc while playing one of them which is pretty unfortunate giving I am trying to build up for tournaments in late August. But I will try and rest as much as I can and limit playing to 3 -4 days a week.

On Tuesday last week, I attended a seminar with Seth Pech (of youtube fame) and his brother, Keith. They went through the basic topspin strokes on forehand and backhand. One of the things Keith pointed out to someone else playing a backhand topspin was that the student's stroke was partly too vertical because he played too close to the table. I am realizing that I should work on this much more as this might be why my most powerful topspins don't have room to dip, especially on the forehand.

One of the interesting things that Seth said was that he believes the contact point for the forehand topspin should be more on the side of the ball for maximum control (I personally think this is true for all powerful spin strokes but that is a separate topic).

I have been working on making my forehand swing a bit more like my backhand swing. My backhand tends to be more direct, while my forehand often has a significant sidespin element. I want a faster forehand topspin on some shots, my spinny muscle memory is not going away. One of the keys to my direct topspin is that I tend to backswing and lead with the wrist on my backhand stroke. I am trying to incorporate this permanently into my forehand as well. I have tried in the past but often given up for one reason or another but at this point, I just want to work on the 1% changes that I have always wanted to make to my strokes.

I travelled for family events from Thursday to Monday so not a single swing until yesterday. I thought I would be lousy but I got an awesome warm up partner so he got me set and I played and won about 6 matches, a couple against players who have beaten me recently in practice or tournament matches. One of the changes I have made is to work on eliminating loose balls that are short more viciously as opposed to my spin almost everything mindset, especially on backhand. The ability to shorten points by hitting wide angles on sitting balls is and should be an important part of my top game.

Hopefully, I return to train on Thursday.

 

[dingyibvs]

Speaking of @Jslick89 I have not been going to his TT garage much in the last few months, but it is obvious that the temp here are too hot to mess with TT in a garage at 7 PM in this time of year... unless i wanna lose more weight and health worse than bad sauna.

Hah, you gotta tough it out. I've had a training session with my training partner during one of those 110 degree weather days at 7pm! I brought in my cooler, filled it with water, ice, and wet towels to help us cool down

 

[NextLevel]

Hah, you gotta tough it out. I've had a training session with my training partner during one of those 110 degree weather days at 7pm! I brought in my cooler, filled it with water, ice, and wet towels to help us cool down

The humidity though...

 

[Jslick89]

The humidity though...

Hah, you gotta tough it out. I've had a training session with my training partner during one of those 110 degree weather days at 7pm! I brought in my cooler, filled it with water, ice, and wet towels to help us cool down

We live in the northern part of the valley of California. no humidity...just dry heat. Thankfully my garage doesn't face west so it does stay in the shade most of the day which also helps.

I still train in my garage twice a week. but with the robot....and the insulated garage door is closed lol. I want to try and figure out some sort of cooling system in there too......but i also want a new robot. and a baby on the way in december. idk if my wife will approve any of those purchases LOL

 

[TheProfessor]

As for arc... I think high arc shots while you are developing get the ball on the table more... especially when you are focusing on SPIN, which is what all of us should be doing instead of banging the crap outta that sucka. Spin wins. You won't make smashes if out of position and and going for 2000% on the shot anyway.

well, on the topic of smashes... @dingyibvs has seen me in person with exactly the same setup in my sig and when I get a ball to my BH at the table that sits up even a LITTLE, I let her go BANG (with the shortest of stroke - like a one foot or less stroke) and that ball is moving faster than many players' FH smashes.

This is a function of good timing, a fast bat speed at impact (with only a little wrist), and precise big time firming at the exact moment needed at impact. The sound is HUGE...

... and all this is from a SOFT 42 degree sponged older rubber on an older wood blade OFF- (Donic Persson Power Play)

Loving the Aurus Soft on my backhand as well!
I currently use Butterfly Kenta Matsudaira ALC
FH: Double Fish Dragon Shadow Spin
BH: Tibhar Aurus Soft!